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Unknown Illness - New User Too


nicoleauryn

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Hello all! Excited to be part of the forums. Engelvee referred me.

Also, I have a problem. I am pretty knowledgeable with goldfish, but recently with my Holiday buzz and business, I noticed that my beautiful pearlscale was ill, and I tried to save her but it was too late :( Pretty sure it was a bladder infection of some sort (floating) and I also realized I had a ammonia spike. I did one 60% water change and another 35% water change in the same day. I also cleaned and replaced the carbon in my canister filter.

My 2nd fish was lively and fine, and then about, a week after the pearlscale died, my (what we think is a Ryukin or a accident Ryukin/Ranchu hybrid) was floating a bit - nose to the air - and when he swims he seems to have difficulty staying underwater. He is a pure white fish with a more pinky tone rather than yellow, and today I noticed he had reddness around his mouth. It isn't streaky nor does it look like a fungus since it seems to be more under the skin.

I am taking him out of the take today and putting him in a medicated tank - but if anyone knows what this is please, any info is helpful. I'd like to save him and never saw this reddness before.

Fishtank is a live planted, 30 gallon tank. Water now tests fine.

Thank you

Nicole Auryn

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We really need more info. So try to answer as many as you can at the top.

If you don't have the API test kit then see about taking some up to the pet shop and get that done.

In the mean time keep doing those water changes. Daily large ones since you can't test and add some salt. Remember to add some every time you do a water change to keep it at .3.

Sorr best advice anyone can give without more info.

OH and carbon is useless unless your tank water stinks. I have not used that stuff in years.

I am making a guess here cause of lack of info but sounds like maybe not enough or large water changes, over stocking, feeding to much or something like that. So if you go to here and read about goldfish and their care, tank set up ect..

I know you said you know about goldfish but I thought so too before I come here only to find I was doing most everything wrong.

Good luck

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I answered all of the questions that I knew the answer to in my original post. If it is the format that you are looking for I can repost again following the question list format.

Here it is in the list format. Again, I did put all of this other than the temp in my original post. Is it required to put it in that format? If so, maybe an admin should state that above :)

Here we go...

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? - 0

[*]Nitrite Level? - I didn't test, but my biologist friend said I was fine and in good shape.

[*]Nitrate level? - I didn't test, but my biologist friend said I was fine and in good shape.

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? - Don't have the stuff to test for that

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? - Don't have the stuff to test for that

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? - They were drops - http://www.tanklife.co.uk/img/testkit.jpg

[*]Water temperature? 69 - 73, currently 70

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 30 gallons, running for almost a year.

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=GJb&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=canister+filter&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=11711739881122975278&ei=wI4GTd_QA8KclgeB9eioCg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CFQQ8wIwBA#

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Recently - please see above original post. Normally once a month, 25% water change.

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 currently, about 3 inches I'd say.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? http://www.nationalpetpharmacy.com/prodimgs/prod/80434912_lg.jpg

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Every other day or so. Pellets, peas, sometimes cucumber or zucchini.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? This fish was added shortly before a ammonia spike.

[*]Any medications added to the tank? No never.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Gah! No no no all is put in my original post.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? .... All is put in my original post. He eats fine.

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We really need more info. So try to answer as many as you can at the top.

If you don't have the API test kit then see about taking some up to the pet shop and get that done.

In the mean time keep doing those water changes. Daily large ones since you can't test and add some salt. Remember to add some every time you do a water change to keep it at .3.

Sorr best advice anyone can give without more info.

OH and carbon is useless unless your tank water stinks. I have not used that stuff in years.

No I do understand, I just really felt the info you had was enough. Knowing my water conditioner really isn't needed for a post like this. I know this is related to the ammonia spike. There is no ammonia now. I just am curious to this random redness O_o

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Actually the info is needed or we wouldn't ask.

This is what I see from the info you were so kind to provide. Not enough water changes. Goldfish are very messy and need large weekly 30 to 80% water changes.

The filter is not large enough that tank need 300 gph.

Those things are why your fish is still so tiny after a year. And most likely why you lost your other fish and why this one is sick.

Get those test for the other Nitrite and Nitrate those are very important and you can't guess at them.

Keep up the water changes add the salt and should see improvement in a few days.

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Well did you quarantine the new fish at all? We need all of the information including the water conditioner because different conditioners can affect the readings. What did the biologist say it was? Just because they say it's fine doesn't necessarily mean it is. Do you have numbers for those? Nitrate and nitrite can really affect a fish.

Do not move a fish into a medicated tank. Medication is a last resort and usually the fish will heal with clean water. How often did you do water changes?

Edit: Sorry I just read the others had died :( I'm sorry. You might as well treat it in the main 30 gallon tank rather than moving it.

Edited by Haruka
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Well did you quarantine the new fish at all? We need all of the information including the water conditioner because different conditioners can affect the readins. What did the biologist say it was? Just because they say it's fine doesn't necessarily mean it is. Do you have numbers for those? Nitrate and nitrite can really affect a fish.

Do not move a fish into a medicated tank. Medication is a last resort and usually the fish will heal with clean water. How often did you do water changes? A 30 gallon is good for 2 fancies, A 3rd is really pushing it.

The biologist just tested my water. The fish had no redness at the time.

I do not recall the numbers. I do not have that information. All I know is that they are low. There is nothing in the tank to effect those numbers at the moment anyway.

3 Fancy goldfish will be just fine. In fact 4 is the max. I have had goldfish for many many many years. It all depends how much you want to upkeep on water changes.

If I do not put the fish in a medicated tank. It *will* die. This happened already. My other fancy fish died right after the ammonia spike, it was too late.

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Well did you quarantine the new fish at all? We need all of the information including the water conditioner because different conditioners can affect the readings. What did the biologist say it was? Just because they say it's fine doesn't necessarily mean it is. Do you have numbers for those? Nitrate and nitrite can really affect a fish.

Do not move a fish into a medicated tank. Medication is a last resort and usually the fish will heal with clean water. How often did you do water changes?

Edit: Sorry I just read the others had died :( I'm sorry. You might as well treat it in the main 30 gallon tank rather than moving it.

Random - btw Haruka - I LOVE YOUR SIG! Excuuuuuuse me Prince! What in the Hyrule! I thought I was the only one that has seen that show haha.

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The rule of thumb is 10 gallons per fancy goldfish with 10xgph. But if you don't need any help then thats good.

So no one knows what the redness is? I assume the ammonia spike is what caused the illness in general, floating tells me air in bladder/bladder infection. I was just curious to know the name of the disease in addition to the bladder/floating issue.

Going to pick up some supplies when I get home, I will test the water for ammonia again as well as nitrates and nitrites.

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Actually the info is needed or we wouldn't ask.

This is what I see from the info you were so kind to provide. Not enough water changes. Goldfish are very messy and need large weekly 30 to 80% water changes.

The filter is not large enough that tank need 300 gph.

Those things are why your fish is still so tiny after a year. And most likely why you lost your other fish and why this one is sick.

Get those test for the other Nitrite and Nitrate those are very important and you can't guess at them.

Keep up the water changes add the salt and should see improvement in a few days.

Ive only had one ammonia spike, once, and it was my own doing. Goldfish *are* very messy, but 80% water changes for 2 three inch goldfish with a proper diet in a 30 gallon tank is a little extreme to me. O_O I test my water all the time. 25%-35% a month always works just fine. The hussle and bussle of the holidays, made me forget. It was my own doing that caused the ammonia spike.

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3 Fancy goldfish will be just fine. In fact 4 is the max. I have had goldfish for many many many years. It all depends how much you want to upkeep on water changes.

With all due respect, something you're doing isn't working, or you wouldn't be here posting about problems. We're all more than happy to help, but it works best if you're open-minded and can perhaps just consider some of the things that work for literally hundreds of people with many years of successful goldfish-keeping.

Big water changes prevent and can even cure myriad problems. 80% weekly is what many on here do. And keeping 4 goldfish in a 30 gallon isn't recommended by anyone on this forum. Allowing a minimum of 10 gallons per goldfish increases longevity and survival rate exponentially.

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3 Fancy goldfish will be just fine. In fact 4 is the max. I have had goldfish for many many many years. It all depends how much you want to upkeep on water changes.

With all due respect, something you're doing isn't working, or you wouldn't be here posting about problems. We're all more than happy to help, but it works best if you're open-minded and can perhaps just consider some of the things that work for literally hundreds of people with many years of successful goldfish-keeping.

Big water changes prevent and can even cure myriad problems. 80% weekly is what many on here do. And keeping 4 goldfish in a 30 gallon isn't recommended by anyone on this forum. Allowing a minimum of 10 gallons per goldfish increases longevity and survival rate exponentially.

When did I *not* come across as open minded? I have never had issues *at all* until recently (which was, again, my stupid fault), and I heard this forum is very good - and I am being as understanding as I can about people on this forum being very hardcore fishkeepers. In my local area and am very involved with aquariums. All I wanted to know was what this disease possibly could be, since I have never seen it before. Even crossed my mind that my fish could be changing color along with a bladder infection.

80% water change, to me, and I just called two local aquariums, is extreme. At least for myself, and the others I have referenced. I respect the fact you all do this large water changes. However, water changes isn't the topic here :) and I do believe you that everyone on this forum does that. I do not. I never have. And I never had a problem.

Ive been told 4 goldies in a 30 gallon tank is doable, but thats the max and pushing it. I have had 3 in a tank tons of times, without problems. That was all I am saying.

Why is everyone so aggressive? Maybe I should find another forum? :/

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With all due respect, something you're doing isn't working, or you wouldn't be here posting about problems.

I think everyone can have problems, even if their system usually works. :) After all, there have been long time members that still post for help here. There's always improvement to be done, though.

I'm new to Koko's (but not new to fishkeeping) so I can't give you an official diagnosis, but the one time my fish had redness around the mouth/gills was when I switched them to a bare tank. Most likely this was because of the lack of "stuff" in the aquarium to biologically filter the ammonia, so it was ammonia caused irritation. I put some salt in the tank and the fish were better within a week or so.

ETA

Why is everyone so aggressive? Maybe I should find another forum? :/

I don't want to come off as rude but... I notice that too. I think that it is not people trying to be rude here, but there is a strong "right" way of keeping fish here at Koko's, so it is hard for some of us to believe that there are other "right" ways of keeping fish. I like this forum, but it does have a personality.

Edited by Calluna
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If you want to find another forum you can. Water changes = linked to water quality. The issue is you don't seem to be listening very well to the advice given. Clean water never hurt anything.

If you need to take a reference to this Reminder

We are trying to help you diagnose what's wrong but if you don't let us know EVERYTHING we can't help. Water changes of 25%-30% aren't nearly enough in a one month period. The fish release hormones to both stunt and ammonia in the tank. Just because it 'worked' doesn't mean there hasn't been damage.

Feel free to join another forum but we are trying to help you here, any other goldfish forum will tell you the same thing. This will be my last post on this thread. Have a good day.

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But I did tell you what it is. It is bad water. Caused by not doing enough water changes, to many fish and not enough filteration. I am sorry was I not clear? I well try harder next time.

Your fish should aslo be much bigger if you have had it a year. Or did I mis understand that? So hard to help people on line I try not to be to long or bog people down with to much info. I just like to keep my replies to how to fix it and stop it from happening again.

Really I am sorry thought I was being clear.

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With all due respect, something you're doing isn't working, or you wouldn't be here posting about problems.

I think everyone can have problems, even if their system usually works. :) After all, there have been long time members that still post for help here. There's always improvement to be done, though.

I'm new to Koko's (but not new to fishkeeping) so I can't give you an official diagnosis, but the one time my fish had redness around the mouth/gills was when I switched them to a bare tank. Most likely this was because of the lack of "stuff" in the aquarium to biologically filter the ammonia, so it was ammonia caused irritation. I put some salt in the tank and the fish were better within a week or so.

Calluna - you hit the nail right on the head! I know exactly what you mean :)

I am also new to Koko's (and not new to fishkeeping)... however, I never knew to salt a goldfish tank (I have only had bettas and goldfish and pretty much all I know about fish wise). What kind of salt and how much? What does that do to the goldfish?

I did not switch the fish to the bare tank yet, but it has worked for every goldfish I had when I knew it def needed medicine. I am still debating, he is acting fine still, and is less floaty today but seems to struggle still staying underwater. Frozen peas may be on tonight's dinner menu and I may hold out another day to monitor on putting him in a hospital tank.

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If you want to find another forum you can. Water changes = linked to water quality. The issue is you don't seem to be listening very well to the advice given. Clean water never hurt anything.

If you need to take a reference to this Reminder

We are trying to help you diagnose what's wrong but if you don't let us know EVERYTHING we can't help. Water changes of 25%-30% aren't nearly enough in a one month period. The fish release hormones to both stunt and ammonia in the tank. Just because it 'worked' doesn't mean there hasn't been damage.

Feel free to join another forum but we are trying to help you here, any other goldfish forum will tell you the same thing. This will be my last post on this thread. Have a good day.

O_O I am telling you everything... everything I possibly know. I just really do not want to be attacked... Ive had fish for years, done everything by the book, listened well experienced people who own aquariums. What I have done has worked for me, there has never been damage - except when I FORGET to do things *stupid stupid stupid*.

I know I am free to join another forum, but I was asking if I should. I just don't want to be attacked every time I post. I understand you are all long time members. I appreciate trying to help.

Any announce it's your last post anyway? O_o odd.

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Auryn, you may want to wait for a mod to confirm/correct this, but this is the generally accepted way to salt a GF tank:

1 tsp/gallon = 0.1% salt.

0.3% salt is used for medicinal purposes in GF tanks.

increase 0.1% salt every 12 hours.

When you do a water change, compensate for the lost salt.

Use only non-iodized NaCl.

Hope that helps.

Edited by Calluna
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