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Peepers Is Bottom Sitting


jody

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

0

[*]Nitrite Level?

0

[*]Nitrate level?

15

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

7.6

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

7.0 (Use PH stabalizer and crushed coral to maintain 7.6)

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

Hagen, API - drops

[*]Water temperature?

73F

temp was 76F for a while but just recently dropped it to 73F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

27 gallon running two years or so, cycled

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

2 AQ 50 (400gph)

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

Usually change 80% weekly but recently only 50% two weeks ago and 30% last night

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

2 Telescopes - 4 -5 inches (Peepers) and 5-6 inches (Google)

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

Prime, Nutrifin PH stabalizer

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

Feed twice a day, fast once a week. Feed gel food, pellets, peas and frozen brine shrimp/blood worms.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

No

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

No

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

A little fungas(tiny tiny spot) on dorsal fin from floating. Thinking of starting Melafix.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

For 2-3 weeks he has been floaty after eating sometimes for almost 12-18 hours. When not floaty he is on the bottom. I was away yesterday (fast day) and since then he will not get off the bottom. So bottom sitting big time, lethargic. If I come to the tank he will swim up to see me but then gives up on swimming and sinks to the bottom. I am going to feed him soon and will see what happens then. Thinking swim bladder.

I have a qt tank that can be set up and one of my filters can be moved to that tank. Not quite sure what to do, other wise externally he looks fine. Dorsal fin is down. I am thinking something internally but I have no idea what meds to treat with. I have limited meds at my disposal at the lfs here. Mail order for the hard ones to get, which is 3-4 days delivery. I am going to keep the lights off for now to limit stress.

Another thing I had green water for two months and then got a uv sterilizer and it seems soon after the uv sterilizer this started(not sure if related)

:help:

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I would put the l'il cutie in quarantine. Also what food are you feeding? He could possibly be allergic. Also a 0.1% salting should help with osmoregulation and help calm him.

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Thanks for the reply! The only change in food recently was that I put red peppers in the last batch of gel food, oh yes I tried some new pellets recently too. What is osmoregulation?

Edited by Hawaiian Crush
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Maybe try no red peppers this time. What's the brand name of the pellets? I know my fish got floaty on saki hikari. :idont

Osmoregulation is basically how a fish controls osmotic pressure. Like for dropsy this is important because the fish is so filled with fluids pressure builds up inside of them as well as the fluids. When you add salt the fluid from their body moves out into their environment to make equillibrium and it helps take the strain off of their kidneys. So salt might help Google feel a little better if he's all bloated up. I do think he may be allergic to the peppers.

How's Google doing?

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The pellets are Omega One. My guys get floaty on all pellets. Thanks for the info about osmoreregulation :) Google seems fine, a little floaty lately lately but I cut their food intake again and she seems fine. Salt has been added. I am off to work for now, will update later. Congats on MOTM as well :)

Edited by Hawaiian Crush
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That's strange if they're omega one, they're usually really good. I would try maybe frozen foods for a few days, the salt should definitely help them. I really hope they feel better soon :heart

:D Thank you!

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I would try maybe frozen foods for a few days, the salt should definitely help them. I really hope they feel better soon :heart

Them is not the problem. It is one - Peepers. And he has not left the bottom for two full days.

Sorry if that sounded bad I just got off a 16 hour split shift.

If we are talking about a red pepper alergy, he has not had any of that for two full days, would that still be affecting him this way? The red peppers have been in his diet for 3-4 weeks now, why all of a sudden all this bottom sitting? I fed him some brine shrimp gel food today but no floatiness.

I am just taking a stab at this but what about some Maracyn or Maracyn 2 for an internal infection.

I am predicting he will not make it through the night.

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Is he clamping his fins when he bottom sits? How much time has gone by since the last rounds of prazi? very often bottom sitting is parasite related.

and for the floating, I have fish who float whenever they eat. Or it could be the sign of an early sign internal infection. What do the poops look like?

I think whatever it is could have started with the stress in the change of the w/c schedule? What were your parameters before your water change after 2 weeks?

Personally I would fast him today. Then feed a few days of only veggies - such as boiled spinach, boiled zucchini etc. These things never get my floaty fish floaty. This should help check if the food is to blame or not.

As for the bottom sitting, check if he is fin clamping.

As for the Maracyns, I think medicated food will turn out more useful and specific if he has some internal infection. Can you get your hand on any of the Jungle Medicated Food?

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Is he clamping his fins when he bottom sits? How much time has gone by since the last rounds of prazi? very often bottom sitting is parasite related.

and for the floating, I have fish who float whenever they eat. Or it could be the sign of an early sign internal infection. What do the poops look like?

I think whatever it is could have started with the stress in the change of the w/c schedule? What were your parameters before your water change after 2 weeks?

Personally I would fast him today. Then feed a few days of only veggies - such as boiled spinach, boiled zucchini etc. These things never get my floaty fish floaty. This should help check if the food is to blame or not.

As for the bottom sitting, check if he is fin clamping.

As for the Maracyns, I think medicated food will turn out more useful and specific if he has some internal infection. Can you get your hand on any of the Jungle Medicated Food?

Yes fins are clamped. Both fish have not been prazied since qt which for both was two years ago. I don't get a change to see much poop but I have seen as of late some white skinny poop and empty casings. One indicates infection and the other constipation if memory serves correct. Parameters were as stated in the boxes above after the two weeks A-0, Nit-0, Nitrate-15-20, ph 7.6. I have a plant it must use some of the nitrate as well as minimum feeding as of late. Fast is no problem for today and veggies for two days. He has only had one meal though in the last 2.5 days, do you think he might need some strength? Also if parisite related do you think both might be affected? Jungle medicated food is 4-6 days away mail order :( I even tried some shops within an hours drive but Pets Unlimit*d (chain store with crappy selection) has run them all out of business :(

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I guess I would try the Prazi. Flukes can always be around and then take hold again on a weaker fish. The stress from them can cause the stress white poop.

You can also try feeding the veggies right away if you feel you have already tried the fasting round. :) Maybe it helps clear out his insides a bit.

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Pellets are soaked. Geen water was eliminated with a uv sterilizer.

Prazi it is then. Just follow the directions? I have maybe enough for 2-3 rounds of prazi

Thanks for your replies :)

Edited by Hawaiian Crush
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You can observe with the Prazi - usually the fish freak out a little if they do indeed have flukes. :) I hope this helps him!

I think 3 rounds are enough if it is a fluke problem.

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I did a 75% WC yesterday and dosed with Prazi. They didnt freak out or anything they seemed to act like nothing was even added. Peepers seemed to perk up a bit after the wc though, I think he is feeling a little better. Currently the tank is at 0.1%salt and prazi. I fed them peas last night and they are both floating near the surface, have been for about 12 hours.

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Are they floating butt up? Or are the like hovering under the water surface? 1 could be constipation and the other for more oxygen?

Do peas usually work for them? I can't give peas to my floaters. You could try some different veggies. Broccoli work very well for me, but I have read they give gas to many fish.

Are they not clamping their fins no more?

I think that if they perked up after the w/c maybe you should do some more frequent ones this week?

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They are floating butt up. I tried boiled spinach yesterday afternoon and they were fine, maybe the peas like you said. O2 should be good - two bubblers with two seperate pumps rated for 30 gal.

I can't tell with clamped fins at the moment as they are at the surface and they are down atm. Tonight they should be sunk and I'll let you know.

Wc more frequent - yes for sure :)

Thanks :)

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oh yes it really could be the peas! my ryukin Sir Archie has a huge issue with those! I don't know why! But he will float and even flip over with those.

Spinach are real good and light. otherwise zucchini work well for my guys. And various frozen foods.

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I boil everything because it is easier for me. but if you have a steamer that could totally work. I just cook it till everything is nice and mushy - same with zucchini - then I put it on the veggie clip.

frozen foods i like krill a lot.

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I got home from work tonight and they were both chillin out on the bottom. I came over to the tank and Google came right over but peepers seemed to want to stay motionless in the corner. I fed them a little and they seem fine. No clamped fins. I am not sure only because it is a little bit but I think Google might be pineconing a bit. Peepers might a little too. If it is dropsy I thought pineconing was meaning the end was near.

edit: Google is pineconing at his sides a seems a little bloated. Peepers I don't think is pineconing.

Edited by Hawaiian Crush
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That's strange if they're omega one, they're usually really good. I would try maybe frozen foods for a few days, the salt should definitely help them. I really hope they feel better soon :heart

:D Thank you!

Haven't finished reading the whole thread, but wanted to note that I love Omega One for the nutrition and ingredients, but *every* fancy goldie I have ever had got floaty from the pellets. It wasn't till I learned to soak them... and one of my goldies that recently passed I had to feed with tweezers because it was too stupid to realize that the food wasn't gone by the time it hit the gravel (another reason why I am switching to mostly bare bottom)

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Since you've caught it early I would suggest moving Google to a 10 gallon rubbermaid quarantine tank. Perhaps what you used for your koi rescue? Then ad 1/8 teaspoons of epsom salt per 10 gallons. That should help clear him out. I wonder what the heck is going on.

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Since you've caught it early I would suggest moving Google to a 10 gallon rubbermaid quarantine tank. Perhaps what you used for your koi rescue? Then ad 1/8 teaspoons of epsom salt per 10 gallons. That should help clear him out. I wonder what the heck is going on.

Caught what early ? Constipation or dropsy?

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