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Did A Swab And Search


pss_gold

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I found some pretty creepy things under my microscope albeit it's a toys r us one that's about... 10 years old now.

I scanned at 100x and these are what I found on Takai. Thankfully they were all dead. I probably would have slightly screamed if they moved.

DSC07510.jpg?t=1292216835

Anyone recognize these?

I'm not worried about the middle one since it's round and doesn't have a stinger or pincers...but the others worry me.

I looked here and I may have seen anchor worms as well...My link

I'm seeing a bit of fin rot and white spots. Already up to 2tsp, going up to 3. Fish seem to be getting better. I expected to find an ich parasite but haven't found one yet. This is only one swab though. I've been treating for flukes with prazi pro for the past month or so now. They haven't had salt in quite some time and i have added new fish.

Edited by Yuko
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I think N3 is a fluke. When I did some scrapes on my fish they had nothing. But my vet told me that it would even be normal to find a couple of parasites on a scrape - what you don't want it 200 of them!

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they're from mostly body. I did swab a little over the gill cover but not much. Yeah, they're not covered in them. I only saw these and then a few anchor worms. They all seem almost perfect this morning so whatever was causing them to spaz must be dying or in egg stage...

I think flukes are supposed to look like this though number three did say fluke to me as well.

Fluke.gif

clip_image007.jpg

Edited by Yuko
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Well #2 was huge at 100x, basically the size of the viewing circle. There weren't any defining characteristics like ich is supposed to have.

Ich.gif

I wouldn't be surprised to see one on later searches though.

I'll do another swab after i study for my final a bit but this was done with a cotton swab so maybe i'll do more of a scrape with something. I'm guessing going with the scales, not against. Nugget has a couple on top her head that i'll try to get at. The tank is at like 65 because the management hasn't fixed the thermostat yet... None of the goldies seem to care :)

Edited by Yuko
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what did you use before to do the scrape? You need the slip and cover. If you didn't use sterile things then the stuff you are seeing might now even have come from the fish.

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for goldfish you are better of using the slide cover to scrape - the slide cuts very easily. :)

as for what you saw it is better if you go check on you tube and compare the movements of various parasites to what you saw.

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The slide is plastic but i'm going to pick up some new glass ones from my college lab supply. Nugget didn't have much slime this morning in comparison to Takai last night. All the ones i've seen have been dead or simply not moving. Though I keep seeing anchor worms. Saw a big one that I got off of Nugget. It was twice the size of the viewing circle at 100x. Looks like I have an anchor worm problem so far. I think the ich has been handled by the salt though i'm still bringing it up to 0.3% soon after changing the water. There's still bits of fin rot but I'm hoping it will go away with good water and parasite control. Now to see if I can find an anchor treatment in any of the stores in my town. It seems like this is a more common pond problem than tank where typically 5ml treats 40 gallons. I doubt they sell 50ml bottles haha

Edited by Yuko
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I'm starting to think it's costia. Nugget has white milky blotches now that are not slime. I'm called around to vets to see if i can get someone with fish experience and a good microscope. Problem is they referred me to the university of illinois, 40+ minutes away... I did leave a message with them though. I'm hoping I can talk to my agriculture professor and get the use of a powerful microscope with a good light (mine has a mirror). Mine is good at 100x and can go up to 300x but it being a toy... I'd rather use a real piece of equipment.

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Ok, I am home now, parasite book in hand.

3 definitely looks like a fluke. I'm wondering if 2 might be a fluke egg, but it's hard to tell. The book doesn't have magnifications, so I don't know if the scale is right. It says the eggs may bear long adhesive threads at one or more ends, did you see those?

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yeah it does sound like a good book. :)

I don't think #2 was an egg, it was probably at least 50x the mass of #3. I drew them to scale of each other on the paper though I guess drawing a circle would have helped. I think #2 is just a random cell since it doesn't have much to it. Or possibly a bubble i guess, though it did have a cell wall but i was wondering about the lack of nucleus. There were also ripped up black segmented strands, some huge some small, that I'm thinking are anchor worms. Some are big enough I can see them without the microscope. Now that I've read more about it, I'll go look at the border of Nugget's tail. Maybe I'll see a big one to confirm. I'm more worried about having costia in my tank at the moment. I'd be able to view it at 200x but preferably 400x. Salt seems to be working though, so if i can find something that kills anchor worms, that should take care of the rest unless this is an asian form of costia, then i'll have to buy some heavy artillery. :( another reason I want it confirmed by a knowledgeable vet or at least be directed by one. I don't want to kill by bbs unless i have to.

I really hope I get to use my school's microscope. The years have not been too kind to the higher magnifications on mine.

They're up to a Tbs per gallon now. These critters were all dead at a third of that and a 4tsp/75 gallons prazi pro after 3 days. (added friday morning, scoped sunday night). I'll dose prazi pro again tonight.

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I don't think #2 was an egg, it was probably at least 50x the mass of #3. I drew them to scale of each other on the paper though I guess drawing a circle would have helped. I think #2 is just a random cell since it doesn't have much to it. Or possibly a bubble i guess, though it did have a cell wall but i was wondering about the lack of nucleus.

I'd guess it was definitely a bubble! You wouldn't believe how easy it is to confuse the two. All it takes is for the scope to go slightly out of focus and into another plane of view. I used to TA microbiology labs and every single day, a student would mistake a bubble for a cell :P

The book is an older one I found at a second hand bookstore one time. I'll get the name and author for you when I go home.

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I got some ich attack at the store today. I read a lot of different reviews about it but i figure it's worth a shot, if it doesn't work, i'll return it. It's kind of like melafix in that it's a natural cure so it wont bother my cycle. It's for salt and freshwater so the Tbs of salt shouldn't effect how it works. It's strange though, since I added it, most of my fish have stayed on the side that I added it on, it's also the side without light. Only half of the tank lights work. Maybe they're just tired from today's activities and parasites. They're all alert though. Probably just sleepy.

Pon was my exam fish today and she's been a little clampy since the ordeal. I wont choose her again for a long time. She had a small anchor worm on her dorsal that I could see without a scope and ich on her tail. My water is about 70. Anyone know what the life cycle length of the ich should look like at this temp?

I did a water change today and I still have my vacuum going. It's a 295gph powerhead with a two layer felt sock on it. If ever there's a gathering of poop or sand or anything on the bottom, i suck it up with that. It also pulls anything floating around in the water and collects it for easy disposal. Next time i go home, I'm making tons so i can change the sock more often rather than boiling it for 20 minutes. I also need a new buffer for my r/o water. A couple more water changes and I'm out of replenish.

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The visible ich is GONE!! :D I wasn't hoping too hard for that stuff to work but wow. Or maybe it's a coincidence since i just brought the salt up to the Tbs Monday. Now I think I'll heat the tank up to 80* and get those eggs hatching so they can be gone too :D I didn't want to raise the temp and have a huge outbreak if this didn't work. I'm really glad it does. I guess my case was mild enough for it to work over night with 1.5x the basic dose with the salt (it says on the bottle it can be doubled and added twice a day if needed). It was defs some weird smelling stuff. Pon is back to normal too. She's always been a bit odd with her giant eye balls :)

I hope the heat doesn't make Nugget think it's time to lay eggs. My guess is she's about 2 years old and has an outy vent.

I'm still waiting for my professor to get back to me. Things are a bit crazy now with finals and all. I am getting that book for Christmas for myself though. :)

After this ich is gone, anchors are next!

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Wow! it's great to learn about all this stuff from you. Thanks for sharing it.

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tank is at 80*F and I haven't seen any new ich spots and all the old are gone. Of course, that doesn't mean it's gone. The white spots we see are the late stages. They are actually more or less like flukes in that you can't see them (until they've caused damage) and they make fish itchy and flashy. So I gotta wait a while before I stop dosing. No flashing yet other than Flake's short spaz. I'm going to start adding the stuff twice a day and keep the temp up. so far all ich seems to be dead.

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