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Sakura

White Spots On Luna

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It's a pity you have to move the fish :( Do you not know anyone with a microscope? Taking the scrapes is very simple - then you just send a picture of them to her.

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No she's the only person I know with a microscope. Her office is only 10 minutes drive away though- not bad at all. She will do house visits with her microscope, but it costs about double :yikes ($160) Can't do it! I'm going to ask to look at the scope with her so I can see the parasite (if there is one) too for when I can someday get my own microscope. It's a pity that she charges so much money for this :(

p.s. How do you take a photo of a microscope slide anyways? Wouldn't you need some kind of special scope that can hook up to a camera or computer? I know it can be done, because I've seen photos of microscopic things before obviously... I just think it would have to be not just any old scope, right?

Edited by Sakura

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I might have missed something as I know I didn't read all 11 pages. The affected fish are all in the same tank? Any problems in the other tank? I'm just curious if it is only in the one tank and so as you say rather has to do with the tank than the fish. Or if the other tank has problems too, fish from there have been in the sick tank before?

Would be good to know if someone else in your apartment building has pet fish and if they are experiencing constant problems, that way you could rule one or the other cause out.

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It's not about the tank at all. It's about the media in the filters. That is the one thing that I have transferred between all tanks so I could get a cycle in each tank. In the ryukin tank Toad is totally fine, but Ino has begun to pinecone. I don't really know what her issue is, but she has been in the beginning stages of scale lifting for at least a month now. So... :idont

Padme has fallen ill with whatever killed all my old fish (besides Toad and Ino). I still haven't euth'ed her. I know I have to, but I am having trouble bringing myself to do it. :(

So then I got the UV and I felt confident that it would easily take care of whatever issue was in the system, and that any fish who were kept in perfect conditions would be able to fight off any minor things anyways. Now from the symptoms the new fish are having though, this doesn't seem to be the same illness as what killed all my old fish. The symptoms are very different, and I have a suspicion this new thing was maybe brought in on the wretched plants I bought.

My previous issue with the dropsy symptoms that killed all my old fish- I think that was something brought in by Fuu or the two SW Koi and Goldfish fish. It's hard to say for sure. If I lose all or most of these fish, I'm probably going to scrap the cycle and start new. I really hope it doesn't come to that... that is just worst-case-scenario.

I don't know anyone else in the apartment. And I doubt anyone else has fish anyways (if they do it's probably just a small betta tank) because aquariums are not even allowed here! (I'm breaking the rules big time, but they've never said anything luckily)

Edited by Sakura

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oh I see, thanks for giving me a short summary of your issues. :)

I really hope it does not come to the worst case scenario. But if what you think is going on is in the filter media, I wonder if you should toss it. I know this is a big risk too as you'd have to cycle the tanks again and start all over, and that would be an insane amount of work. Because if it is in the filter media, and you cure your fish, the problem will just be right back as the source of the evil is still there.

But during the cycle, with the daily water changes and treating your fish you might be able to get rid of it.

If you already did toss them, then never mind.

Again, I am just wondering about this. As I never had such problems (yet *knocks on wood) I don't really feel like I should give actual advice, but I thought I'd share my thoughts. I hope everything works out for you and your fish. I know you love them and take good care of them, it's a shame this is happening to you :(

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No with a normal old microscope the vet showed me you can just take any camera - point it into one of the eyepieces and thats it :) It works well enough for my vet to be able to see any pics his clients send him and to identify things they do not know.

Then the new ones have the USB thing - but that is unnecessary :)

Maybe you should restart your cycle now - if you loose all these fish that would be unnecessary. How about just putting them in a tub for now?

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Well there has not really been much change except that Serafina's fins are getting eaten away looking at the edges. Also poor Loki is dropsied. He's my favorite too :( Vet appointment is in a couple of hours. I'm upset that she charges so much, because I would so prefer if she could come here. I think it would give her a better picture of what's going on to see all the fish and the tank.

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Is that the flat fee for coming over and checking all the fish? Or do you pay extra each fish? If not it might be worth that she comes over.

Like my koi doctor has a flat rate for 'house visits' and in like 1hr he scrapes however many fish you want.

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I don't really know. But I can't afford to pay for her to come here anyways because I might have to pay extra for antibiotic injections or anything else. I plan to ask her if she knows of any good fish hobbyists (preferably koi/goldfish) in the area that would be willing to let me borrow some healthy filter media. Then I would sterilize the heck out of everything in my tank and start fresh. It would be risky, but probably worth it. Then again maybe not if the fish just re-introduce the problem back into the cleaned out tank :/ sigh...

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I'm so sorry Sakura. :( I would try Federica's idea of putting them all in a tub with the media they already have, and sterilize the living h-e-double hockey stick out of the main tank like you suggested. That way there's no chance all of this will ever happen again, and then put the new Ken fish in the sterilized main tank. Hopefully the vet will shed some light on what's going on.

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I wonder if it is inside them or out? I know my friend in Holland used PP a lot to disinfect Kois before he introduces them to the ponds. Maybe once the tank is disinfected you can put them in a PP dip and put them in? I really don't know :(

I know tho that most parasites die in 48 hrs without a host. Maybe the vet can tell you the cause - if it is a parasite - then you might be able to take the fish out in a tub for 48hrs and just continue the cycle with ammonia for a few days and put them back inside? Not sure what else to suggest.

Have you decided on what fish you are taking yet?

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I'm so sorry to hear that things are getting worse :( I was so hoping that it was simply ich and the salt would take care of everything. Hopefully your vet visit will shed some new light on what's happening here. I have my fingers crossed for you and will be sending lots of positive thoughts your way.

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Sakura,can you email her a video so she can see how everyone is acting?

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I'm pretty busy, but I'll give a quick update guys...

I just got back from the vet and put the fish back in the tank a little while ago. I ended up bringing Luna and Serafina. This morning I noticed Grindle is swollen as if he is beginning to pinecone as well, but so far his scales are still flat.

The vet did a skin scrape of both fish and she let me look at the microscope as well. There was absolutely no parasites on either of them. Nothing out of the ordinary at all there. Then she took a tiny clipping on Luna's gill to look at that under the scope as well. She saw a slight abnormality that could indicate there was a parasitic issue recently that is no longer present, but nothing that for sure says there were parasites. Again, no living or dead parasites present at all there.

So she said that probably since I was seeing the white spots there was a parasite present, but that the salt treatment I did has killed it (at least from latching onto the fish, but it may still be present in the tank in other forms). So that is good. But she thinks that there is a secondary infection that has begun, so she gave me a good, broad spectrum antibiotic to mix into the gel food. So I'm going out to buy more gel food ingredients and make their special med food. I'm also going to feed it to Ino and Toad since Ino is pineconed as well. But I should call her and ask about that because I only told her I was feeding it to 6 fish...

She tested the salinity at it was at 6ppt! That's twice what it needs to be! I guess it can happen even when you're careful about measuring out the teaspoons like I was, so I'll probably be buying an electronic salinity tester (although I'm broke now!) sometime soon to keep a closer eye on it. I did a ~15% water change without adding salt to bring it down a little bit. Um... what else.... Oh, she said the MetroMed is not very broad spectrum, so I should stop using it and instead use the antibiotic that she gave me in their gel food. Okay, I'm off to make some gel food! I'm hoping for the best, but I think I may lose Loki, and possibly Grindle if he's truly pineconing too. I have never been able to save a fish once they pinecone :(

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i hope all goea well for you and your little fish. fingers crossed xx

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FIngers crossed for you sakura! It is so strange she didn't find anything!

Don't give up on the dropsy just yet. If the antibiotic triggers the bacteria causing it the fish might very well get better :)

Just about the salt - if you could get your hands on a scale which measures grams - this is the easiest, and most accurate way to dose salt. 1gram per liter for 0.1%, 2grams/liter for 0.2 etc :)

you have an 55gal and a 75gal right? that is 200 and 280 liters :)

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I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you Sakura. :hug I hope this new antibiotic will stop all these problems for you.

I just wanted to mention that you can get a Hydrometer for cheap, no need to get an electronic one for a freshwater tank. One of these will do the job very well:

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/Fish_Saltwater-Mixes_Hydrometers_Seatest-Hydrometer_8634625_102.html?tc=fish

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Thanks Edith, I have looked at those things before and they don't seem to go low enough because they're made for saltwater tanks. Does that one go as low as .1%? And does it go up by only a little so you can get really accurate?

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Fins crossed that the antibiotics work :D Did she say how long before you could expect improvement?

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No, she didn't say. I think with antibiotics you normally see improvement within a couple of days, but I'm not 100% on that.

I just looked over my invoice, and she charged me $15 for water quality and salinity testing! :yikes Geez, they didn't tell me they were going to charge me for that...

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