Not Ich

[shellbell4ever]

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?0

[*]Nitrite Level?0

[*]Nitrate level?0-planted

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?7.6

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?7.6

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[*]Water temperature?78,thought it was ich

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?20 long,6 months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?Aqueon 30/45 (200gph)

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?75% x3 weekly

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?was 3 lost one recently

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?prime

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?variety veggies and hikari sinking foods

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? Clemmy was added a few weeks ago

[*]Any medications added to the tank?salt at .01%

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?started with what looked like ich,but now slime coat seems to be shredding as well as fins and erratic behavior

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?bottom sitting,floating,flashing,rubbing,flipping

Ok I thought these guys had ich?It started with small white spots but not really like salt?? But Now they seem to be losing their slime coats,have clamped and frayed fins,they'e swimming erratically,flashing,floating,flipping,they still have appetites,their poops are semi short white and stringy I'm at a total loss as to whats going on in this tank I had added new plants and Clemmy to this tank on the 22,23 of Nov and all seemed fine till last week or so I'm now doing 75% w/c every other day because i thought it was ich...now I do not know where to go from here...Any suggestions would be appreciated

here's a video link http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/shellbell4ever/Goldfish/?action=view&current=001-4.mp4

[Sakura]

Goodness Shell, I'm so sorry about all this and that you lost Blizzard. She was so pretty.

I agree that it doesn't look like ich, but have you tried going up to .3% salt yet? Salt should work on a number of other parasites as well, and it looks to me as if they're suffering from some sort of parasite. Maybe something was brought in on a plant

[shellbell4ever]

Thanks Sakura

I'm thinking the same here now as well, I did get some new plants recently but did the same bleach dip I usually do,can plants really bring in bacteria??I miss my Blizz so much :( and his belly was soft and squishy too and he seemed pink if that makes any sense to you?Salt's up to .3% as of today,how long should I keep it there??I'm hoping to stop at my local (mom and pop) pet shop today to see if they have any anti parasite foods just in case and see if they have any thoughts on whats going on???

Thanks again and if you think of anything else or have any other suggestions I'd love to hear them

[redfish]

So sad to hear you lost Blizzard. Such a beautiful fish.

I don't have any ideas what could be happening with your tank/fish...just wanted to offer my good vibes, hope things get better!

[Sakura]

Thanks Sakura

I'm thinking the same here now as well, I did get some new plants recently but did the same bleach dip I usually do,can plants really bring in bacteria??I miss my Blizz so much :( and his belly was soft and squishy too and he seemed pink if that makes any sense to you?Salt's up to .3% as of today,how long should I keep it there??I'm hoping to stop at my local (mom and pop) pet shop today to see if they have any anti parasite foods just in case and see if they have any thoughts on whats going on???

Thanks again and if you think of anything else or have any other suggestions I'd love to hear them

Oh I was wondering how Blizzard looked before passing on. The soft belly and pink color (yeah I know what you mean about that) makes me think it could be something bacterial and internal. It's possible some kind of parasite eggs were transferred to your tank from the plants, and then infected the fish, causing the fish to get secondary bacterial infections. Even sterilizing with bleach can't kill 100% of the nasties, but it helps. I would keep the salt at .3% for a week and maybe longer depending on how they look. I think looking into the anti-parasite foods is a good idea. You know the Jungle AP food is a pretty good one, right? Metromeds is absolutely the best though in my opinion. If you can manage to get that, I think you should. But shipping might be expensive, especially if you pay for faster shipping.

[dogsbykat]

This sounds a lot like what happened to me in Sept, a couple of weeks after I added plants, treated with a PP dip. I don't know what to recommend for treatment for the fish ( I only had access to a limited choice of meds and I lost all of my fish), but I would move them to a separate tank/tub, bleach the heck out of your tank and filters and garbage the plants and filter media. I don't want to alarm you, but the symptoms seem very similar and it got very bad very quickly in my tank. Fins crossed for your guys, sorry for the loss of Blizzard

[kukana d]

Oh no Shelly,I'm so sorry that you're having these problems My 1st thought was the plants,also. This is the 2nd time that I've been about to add some plants,and come across something like this Is there nothing that kills ALL of the nasties? If you and Kathy had said you had not disinfected your plants-that would be 1 thing,but you both did disinfectI just bleached some anacharis (sp?) that had been 'industrially sanitized' (whatever that is!),and now I'm afraid to put it in w/ my gf! I've had it about a month,in a bucket,never completely confident to add it-but was going to after bleaching it yesterday-now I don't know again

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

OMG I am so sorry!

Personally I always have a fluke phobia. If I remember well Clemmy was with your daughter's little fish for a while right? Did she treat her fish very carefully with Prazi?

To me stringy poop (stress), shedding slime (stress) and flashing just scream flukes out at me...

Maybe you can try Prazi and see how they react? Has Clemmy ever been treated? My vet said it takes about 2 weeks for a fluke infested fish to attack the others in the tank. So the timeline sort of works?

The fact that Blizzard passed is very strange. Maybe she had a totally different issue and the flukes were just the final stress factor?

Was Blizzard pineconned? I would personally get them on MediGold unless they dramatically improve over the next few days. Stress like this will get their immunities way down. If Blizzard was not pineconned it is a relatively safe treatment as their kidneys are still strong.

I agree on the 0.3% salt to help them fight on their own and kill as many parasites. Also, very frequent water changes will help. Maybe remove the plants?

Have you actually added any ornaments lately? Are they part of that lovely fall tank? Maybe take anything out that you haven't been using for LONG (like 5months+) so anything that could be leaching will be removed.

Oh, you can even add carbon for 24hrs to get any chemicals out of the water before you start the prazi?

[shellbell4ever]

Bubbles is Gone :( I am very distraught Clemmy is not looking good

All the fish have all just finished a month long prazi pro routine...the new lionheads have two more weeks to go...moving remaining fish to a tub and bleach bombing the 20 long,how do I go about this???

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

Oh darn so it isn't flukes

I don't know if it is worth bleaching everything. The fish are already sick. What medicated food do you have?

Could you have cross contaminated from the new lionheads? with a syphon maybe?

This is just so strange because your old fish have been so healthy for so long. It has to be something new.

[dogsbykat]

So sorry After I lost my fancies, I emptied the tank, tossed plants (real and fake) and filter media, refilled, using 10% bleach, ran the filters for 12 hrs, emptied the tank, ran clean water w/dechlorinator for 12 hours, emptied again and repeated with vinegar, then clean water for a few days before adding new fish. Big hugs to you, this is awful to deal with

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

Omg just realized that Bubbles is gone too! I am so sorry!

Is Clemmy the only one left from that tank? Is it just that tank?

How about a rubber tub to move him in? With just a disinfected airstone and some zeolite? I don't know what else you could do.

Did you PM Imo?

[seheap]

I have a feeling this is still Ich, even though it doesn't look like it.

Sometimes, in rare cases, Ich will manifest abnormally. In some cases, it won't even present with any white spots at all.

I think this may be a time that you need to add the heavy artillery.

Have you thought about a bucket-to-bucket treatment?

[shellbell4ever]

Ok I am so frazzled I Moved Clemmy and Callie into a rubbermaid in the bedroom with a bubbler,but no filter!!!to keep little toddler hands out re disenfected the live plants that were left and moved them into qt for now,the only thing new added to the 20 long was some other plants I got a few weeks ago which have sence died???I had switched the baby lionheads and telescope tanks a couple of weeks ago also, but all the lionheads are doing just fine (so far as I can tell) I do use the same python for all three goldfish tanks,but usually run some bleach and water after each tank...I have no med food right now and with Hubby out of work ordering on line is out so we will take a ride into town in the am,and pray the fantails survive the night

Hopefully no more lives lost,I'm wiped, from the stress,loss, and the tears tomorrows another day... R.I.P. my beloved Bubbles and Blizzard :(

[kukana d]

Oh Shell,I'm so sorry,SweetieBig hugs to youI so wish I had an answer for youIt def sounds like you should get your little Clemmy into another tank or tub. What all equipment(tanks,filters) and meds(food and water trtmnts)do you have available to you? It might help to have it all laid out here....

[redfish]

Oh no! So sorry about Bubbles. I'm praying Clemmy is ok. What a terrible time for you.

[seheap]

From Edward J Noga Fish Disease Diagnosis and Treatment

"Ichthyobodosis [ich]

History/Physical Examination

Typical signs of protozoan ectoparasite; especially, drop in temperature; bluish or whitish film on body

Treatment

Formalin Bath

Formalin prolonged immersion

Potassium Permanganate prolonged immersion

Raise temperature >30*C (86*F)

Salt bath

Secnidazole oral

Triclabendazole

Metronidazole oral"

I can give you instructions on any of the above treatment methods, but I personally recommend using potassium permanganate. It is the safest of the methods listed (excluding salt, but you tried that already).

I DO NOT RECOMMEND USING FORMALIN FOR BEGINNERS! It is way too picky and can easily kill your fish if the conditions are even a little off.

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

Shell I do think they got something from the Lionheads.... I am not mixing fish from different sources for this reason. Your fish were so well taken care of - something the lionheads are immune to maybe got to them?

Have you tried salt at 0.3% and heat yet on little Clemmy? I think you can jump right to 0.3% if he was at 0.1%. (vet said it's not a problem and will kill more parasites/faster)

Don't add anything from the 20gal incase it is something more funky tho. I guess you are better off without a filter now, even if it means frequent w.c

I am crossing my fingers for Clemmy. He is so special.

[shellbell4ever]

I thought it was ich at first so the tank is currently at .3% salt and the temp is at 80f as well,but this morning I took a better look and it doesn't look like ich at all this is all in the tank that Clemmy and Callie were in, then the new lionhead babies, then the teles and fantails with 3x 75% w/c's weekly because of the overstocking...i do hope I have my Clemmy in the morning right now he doesn't look very well at all and hasn't shown any interest if food since this am the fantail Callie is floating and flipping as I type

[Sakura]

Oh Shell I'm so incredibly sorry you lost both Blizzard and now Bubbles. I really liked those two, and I know you did too. Hang in there Clemmy

I don't think you should re-use those plants though Shell, even after re-sterilizing them. Just throw them right out. Better safe than sorry.

[amynmitchell]

Gosh...what is going on? I wish I had some good idea. Have you tested your tap to make sure nothing has changed? When is the last time you've done a gaint water change. I am so sorry about your losses.

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

How's Clemmy Shell???

[shellbell4ever]

Sadly Clemmy and Callie did not make it through the night :( I am devastated to say the least My daughter is also upset about the loss but has been very comforting for me

I am currently running bleach through the tank and filters for 12 hours, following through later today with another dose,then vinegar? then 100% de chlor treated water...does this sound right???Any other suggestions???At this point I don't even know if I want to set the tank back up although i do love having a tank in the kitchen and my Grandson keeps going to the tank and shrugging his shoulders as if to say where's the fish Mema :(

I want to thank all of you for all of your support through this tough time I truly don't know what i would do with out all of you

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

OMG Shell this is so horrific! I am so sorry about Clemmy - he was such a little doll and you raised him so well.

Are the fish in the other tanks okey???

I would throw all plants and anything new you added in the last month or so.

When I bleach I usually run bleach in empty canisters. I boil the media (but maybe you should throw it since it seems you had something very nasty going on). Then rinse very well and just let everything dry. Usually drying will get rid of any remaining nasties and the bleach too. THen you can even repeat the entire thing it you want. I usually then vinegar the tanks after bleach because it gets the windows nice and shiny clean.

THen once you have everything set back up you should run it with active carbon and extra dechlor.

Best of luck. This is such a bad time for this.

[Sakura]

Oh my gosh Shell I am so very sorry, how devastating. Especially to lose Clemmy, your little fry Big hugs