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Internal Bacteria & Fin Rot


Flor

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[*]Test Results for

the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0<B><BR style=""> </B>

[*]Nitrate level?0

<B>

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? PH 8<BR style="">

</B>

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?How do I get this ??<B><BR style="">

</B>

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Drops, API.<BR style="">

[*]Water temperature? 68<BR style="">

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 30 gals, since Sep 2010<BR style="">

<BR style="">

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

Pinguin Bio wheel 150.

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 5 gal. once a week.

[*]How many fish

in the tank and their size? 3 gold fish of 1 ? inch each.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Stress Coat, Stress

Zyme and Water Conditioner, also Acuarium Salt.

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Actually they are in

the 9th day of Anti Bacteria Medicated Fish Food (Jungle)

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No, I add them at the same

time.

[*]Any medications added to the tank? At the beginning of

the month they had Ick so I add the Ick Away from Wardley as indicated, and

the Ick went away. I also add salt 3% at the beginning of the month.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt,"

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? I started the Anti Bacteria food after

the Ick was away, because they were pooping a long transparent string of

poop, and also one of them start having a rot fin, so I gave them this food

for 9 days, and yesterday add 1 ? teaspoons of Malachite green , to treat the

rot fin. But I don?t see any has change since that, their poop is normal some

times and white and transparent others, the rot fin still there. What am I

doing wrong?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not

eating, etc.? They are really active, they want to eat all the time, nothing

indicates that something is wrong, except for the poop and the rot fin in one

of them.

Thanks for your help!!

Email me

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I thnik what's going on is poor water quality. Immediately do a water change to get rid of all the malachite green. It's way too harsh for sick fish. What kind of goldfish are they? It's pushing it with 3 in a 30 gallon and with only a 5 gallon water change not nearly enough water is being changed. I would start with 50% water changes daily to get clean, pristine water and add 30 teaspoons of aquarium salt to raise the salinity level to 0.1%. Is your tank cycled?

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Hi everyone!

Thanks for helping!

My gold fish are 2 fancy tail and 1 telescope. They are 1 1/2 inch long each. I just did 10% of water change, I just add Water Conditioner:" AquaSafe" with BioExtract (Tetra Aqua) to make tap water safe, after setting for 24 hours, then I'm planning to do another 40% tomorrow because I did not set enough water aside today.

My question is: how many 50% water changes I have to do? And when should I add the 1% salt?

Every time I add this 50% what should I put in the water?

Why my testings are showing fine if the water quality is poor? I had no amonia, Nitrites or Nitrates, PH kind of high should I put proper PH 7?

My tank was cycled when I brough the fish.

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Hi everyone!

Thanks for helping!

My gold fish are 2 fancy tail and 1 telescope. They are 1 1/2 inch long each. I just did 10% of water change, I just add Water Conditioner:" AquaSafe" with BioExtract (Tetra Aqua) to make tap water safe, after setting for 24 hours, then I'm planning to do another 40% tomorrow because I did not set enough water aside today.

My question is: how many 50% water changes I have to do? And when should I add the 1% salt?

Every time I add this 50% what should I put in the water?

Why my testings are showing fine if the water quality is poor? I had no amonia, Nitrites or Nitrates, PH kind of high should I put proper PH 7?

My tank was cycled when I brough the fish.

Hi there,

A cycled tank has nitrates. Your test results are not fine if you have zeros across the board, unless you have live plants.

The malachite green will kill your biological filter. If you added it yesterday and your cycle died, you shold start to see ammonia readings.

You said you add 3% salt at the beginning of the month. Have you replaced the salt when you do water changes? The salt you have in there now would affect how anyone tells you to add future salt. What kind of salt are you using?

Also, how old are your test kits?

If you have killed off your biological filter, keep a very close eye on future readings.

If you are removing chlorine and chloramine with your conditioners, why are you setting the water out prior to use? Temperature? Are you trying to change your pH?

Good luck,

Amy

Edited by Grace
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My gold fish are 2 fancy tail and 1 telescope. They are 1 1/2 inch long each. I just did 10% of water change, I just add Water Conditioner:" AquaSafe" with BioExtract (Tetra Aqua) to make tap water safe, after setting for 24 hours, then I'm planning to do another 40% tomorrow because I did not set enough water aside today.

My question is: how many 50% water changes I have to do? And when should I add the 1% salt?

Every time I add this 50% what should I put in the water?

Why my testings are showing fine if the water quality is poor? I had no amonia, Nitrites or Nitrates, PH kind of high should I put proper PH 7?

My tank was cycled when I brought the fish.

Hi Flor and welcome. As everyone says, you do not appear to have a cycled tank now which explains the fin rot.

Malachite Green products kill a cycle as do Wardley Ich meds. You may have had a cycled tank 3 months ago, but medication will have killed the cycle.

The finrot is the result of this. You now need to get back on track with larger water changes daily for a while.

You do NOT need to age water to use for goldies. You can add the de-chlorinator/de-chloramine to the buckets of water, wait a few mins and use that water right away :) Providing of course that your pH in the bucket is the same as the old water in the tank. Any change in pH will cause finrot and ich, as will any temperature change.

You need to do those 50% water changes EVERY DAY for a few weeks or more until you see nitrates return and zero for nitrites and ammonia :).

Please, please please do not use any more products or your fish will die and lose precious immune strength. You do not need to change high pH with products either......any pH over 7 and right up to 8.5 is fine for goldfish, it just must be stable...= the same all the time.

3% salt.....do you mean 0.3%? That would be 3 teaspoons per gallon.... so in your tank 90 teaspoons? This is a max medicinal dose and if the ich has long gone then it is not necessary. Mild finrot will heal with good water alone.

If the finrot persists despite good water, you can add 0.1% salt -that is 30 teaspoons in your tank after a large water change (dissolved first in de-chlorinated water) There is a link in my sig explaining how to do this and which salt is safe.

Please let us know how things are going!! :D

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:tou Hi Imo!

thank you very much for the advice. At the begining I was thinking it was crazy to do 50% of water changes for several weeks, now I understand why. I'm still scared though.

I started performing those 50% water changes today. I check that water added was the same PH and temp. than water in the tank. I have a question, the water conditioner:

I'm adding 5ml per 10gal of new water? or for the total of the tank:30 gal?

What should I do with the filter cardrige? I changed it 2 weeks ago, it says change every 4 weeks but with all this water changes, do I need the filter cardrige inside the filter?

So, according to what I read, I should see ammonia and nitrites levels going up in about 10 days. right? even when this happens I dont change anything, I keep changing the same amount

of water.

The fish are doing well, despite all the stress, I feed them planctom, frozen shrimp, peas and Omega3 shrimp sinking pellet. that's fine? they eat twice a day, morning and night.

Thanks again, keep you informed!!!

Flor. :fishtank:

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You add the Stress Coat to the new water. Earlier you said you used Stress Coat, Stress Zyme and Water Conditioner. Are you using Stress Coat and another water conditioner? You mentioned Aqua Safe previously.

You wrote that it says to change the filter every 4 weeks. I am assuming that you are referring to instructions from your Penguin filter? Your filter normally should not be changed pretty much until it is falling apart. Removing the filter media will kill off a lot, if not most of the bio-bugs, depending on how your tank is set up. Rinsing the gunk off in tank water is a common practice.

You asked if you need the filter cartridge inside the filter with all the water changes. What do you have in the filter now? You should have media in your filter.

Have you been testing your water? Your first post was from November 28th. You said you just started the 50% water changes today, so I can't tell what water changes you have done in the meantime other than the last 40% you said you were going to do on the 29th. If I were you, I would test the water as soon as possible. You can get ammonia readings pretty fast. I have had ammonia readings within a couple of days.

It is important to test your water at least daily so you can see exactly what the water in your tank is doing. This will tell you what you need to do. If you get a spike in either ammonia or nitrite readings, you will have to adjust your water changes, meaning you may have to do more water changes to bring your water parameters to a safe level.

Glad your fish are doing ok. :)

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Hi again Flor :hi

Grace is right about the filter. the filter should house different kinds of media allowing for the good bacteria to breed and keep the tank safe. So throwing the filters away completely is not so good unless you have several other medias and filters on your tank that contain bioballs, ceramic hoops etc which are great breeeding ground for the good bacs to flourish. Gravel and ornaments carry some good bacs too. There are very, very few in the actual water (as they like to "attach").

Yeah, so just a rinse in de-chlorinated water is fine (old tank water you have removed for example).:flowers

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Here some answers"

Yes, I did more water changes since 11/28, the next was on 12/04 were I did 50% and always my reading were 0 Amonia, 0 Nitrites, 0 Nitrates. Since I satarted the 50% daily, from yesterday, I just add Stress Coat (fish & tap water conditioner) for the 15gal I'm adding, that is 7.25ml of conditioner in 15Gal of tap water. I made the mistake of rinsing the filter cardrige in tap water and put it back to the filter (Pinguin Bio Weel). I also have cleaned the gravel when sucking up the water, its this fine? or I just suck from the top to keep the good bacteria in the gravel?

My tank has an air stone running all the time, the filter always had the cardrige too. How often do you rinse the filter? I mean the hole plastic thing, not just the cardrige.

My water is istill reading the same 0 Amn, 0 Nitri, 0 Nitrates.

Another question, there is some brown algae growing in some parts of the walls in the bottom of the tank, I cleaned some with a sponge, (a new one, that I never use for other things) are they good or bad? should I clean them all or leave them?

Pumpkin is the one showing rot tail, he's having three black spot on his tail and a little bit on his body, the others jus have the internal bacteria, but they are all active and eating pretty good.

Thanks for being there!

Appreciate your help and apologize for my english writing that is not the best, my native language is Spanish.

Flor.

Edited by Flor
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Hi Flor,

1) How do you know that your fish have an internal bacterial infection?

2) Have you EVER had any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate readings when you have tested your water using your current test kits?

3) You said one fish had three black spots on his tail and a little bit on his body. Is there any way you could post a picture so we can see what exactly they look like? Also, pictures of the other fish?

4) When you vacuum, you do not want to just do the top. You want to get all of the gunk out.

With no readings since November 28th at all and the black showing on the fish, I am wondering if he might have ammonia burns. Your lack of any readings is suspicious. You should have had some readings by now. I am wondering about your test kits and if they are accurate. If you did no water changes between November 28th and December 4th, you should have had ammonia readings, especially with the load you have.

I apologize in advance if you have already provided any information. I am having a hard time going back and forth. ;)

Amy

Edited by Grace
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Hi Flor,

1) How do you know that your fish have an internal bacterial infection?

Hi Amy: I know about the internal infection because their poop. I read that when they have it, they poop like a white long string or transparent string, thats what they do now, not always. Some poop is normal (short and the color of the food) and some are long transparent strings.

2) Have you EVER had any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate readings when you have tested your water using your current test kits?

Yes, I had ammonia at the begining, like 2 months ago, it was like 2.5 once and almost 4 another. When this happens, I did water change and put extra bag of carbon in my filter (Ammo carb) and after 2 days desapear.

3) You said one fish had three black spots on hi tail and a little bit on his body. Is there any way you could post a picture so we can see what exactly they look like? Also, pictures of the other fish? yes, I will.

4) When you vacuum, you do not want to just do the top. You want to get all of the gunk out. Got it.

With no readings since November 28th at all and the black showing on the fish, I am wondering if he might have ammonia burns. Your lack of any readings is suspicious. You should have had some readings by now. I am wondering about your test kits and if they are accurate. If you did no water changes between November 28th and December 4th, you should have had ammonia readings, especially with the load you have. I dont know, my test kit is not too old, we bought it almost 1 year ago. It's the API drop test. I forgot to tell you, on 12/04 I add Nutrafin Cycle, a bilogical aquarium suplement that you add: day 1 25ml per 10 gal, day 2 10ml per 10gal, day 3 10ml per 10gal. Plus the conditioner. This suposed to estblish a safe environment, eliminate ammonia etc... maybe the water still have some of this and thats because I had no ammonia yet. My readings for today are still tha same, 000

I apologize in advance if you have already provided any information. I am having a hard time going back and forth. ;)

Amy

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Grace, I dont know how to sent a picture here, my e mail is florgurmandi@hotmail.com, I can sent you by mail if you have one.

Hi Flor,

1) How do you know that your fish have an internal bacterial infection?

Hi Amy: I know about the internal infection because their poop. I read that when they have it, they poop like a white long string or transparent string, thats what they do now, not always. Some poop is normal (short and the color of the food) and some are long transparent strings.

2) Have you EVER had any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate readings when you have tested your water using your current test kits?

Yes, I had ammonia at the begining, like 2 months ago, it was like 2.5 once and almost 4 another. When this happens, I did water change and put extra bag of carbon in my filter (Ammo carb) and after 2 days desapear.

3) You said one fish had three black spots on hi tail and a little bit on his body. Is there any way you could post a picture so we can see what exactly they look like? Also, pictures of the other fish? yes, I will.

4) When you vacuum, you do not want to just do the top. You want to get all of the gunk out. Got it.

With no readings since November 28th at all and the black showing on the fish, I am wondering if he might have ammonia burns. Your lack of any readings is suspicious. You should have had some readings by now. I am wondering about your test kits and if they are accurate. If you did no water changes between November 28th and December 4th, you should have had ammonia readings, especially with the load you have. I dont know, my test kit is not too old, we bought it almost 1 year ago. It's the API drop test. I forgot to tell you, on 12/04 I add Nutrafin Cycle, a bilogical aquarium suplement that you add: day 1 25ml per 10 gal, day 2 10ml per 10gal, day 3 10ml per 10gal. Plus the conditioner. This suposed to estblish a safe environment, eliminate ammonia etc... maybe the water still have some of this and thats because I had no ammonia yet. My readings for today are still tha same, 000

I apologize in advance if you have already provided any information. I am having a hard time going back and forth. ;)

Amy

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Hi Flor,

The Nutrafin cycle sounds like it is responsible for your readings. I have never used it, so I know very little about it or how it works. It says it is supposed to make your tank safe, but for how long, I do not know. I am sure someone else can help with this.

You are in the best position for a poop evaluation. :rolleyes: Sometimes my fish will have issues, but I don't suspect anything serious until I see enough to cause concern.

The pictures may shed some more light on what is going on.

Have you tried the salt like Trinket said? If you did, I missed it.

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Speaking of salt, do you use it with the ammo carbon in the tank? I wouldn't use carbon in a goldfish tank as it leeches things back into the water and can irritate the fish. Most of those ammonia things that take out ammonia, are 're-charged' when salt is added to the water so all of the ammonia they keep inside of them is re-released back inside of the tank when salt is added.

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Here are 2 of the photos. I wasn't sure if you wanted them all posted. Will post a couple of the others in a bit. Let me know if you want them all up. Your fish are lovely.

Its hard for me to tell about the marks. Do they look like they are on the surface or more like something internal? I can only really see them on one side. Maybe someone else can tell better than I can.

Is that the poop I see?

IMG_5598_-_Copy.jpg

IMG_5595.jpg

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I'm on day #6 of 50% daily water change, I had not readings of ammonia, nitrites or nitrate yet, I just add stress coat every time as indicated on the bottle, fish are doing well, eating and moving constantly. The black spots are still there, I did not see the string white poop in the last couple of days.

I know Nitrate cycle takes several days, just want to know if I'm doing well or need to do something else.

Thanks in advance!

flor.

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