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Captain Findus Goldfish

Mary Poppins' Dropsy...

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Hey Imo!

I totally thought it was eggs in the beginning - her poop was zigzag but you couldn't see the little egg pockets like in your picture. The main issue is that Archie has developed the same type of dropsy on HIS butt - so he cannot be having egg issues... :(

She used to sleep head up but has stopped that since the round of MMs.

I am just afraid that it will become a replay of what happened with Penelope. :( But like I said, she doesn't look 'swollen'...

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Okay so what other similarities are you seeing? Good appetite? Any bottom sitting? Any kind of behavior at all that is not normal? Anything external except dropsy areas? Another summary always helps.

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Okey, I just wrote a HUGE post and my laptop shut off - curse of the low battery!

So.

Similarities in Archie and Poppins:

white stringy poop (maybe constipation or signs of bacteria?)

great appetite

happy looking

active swimming

non clamped fins

non swollen looking but prickly scales in butt area (and under the chin - since MMs that is gone)

Differences:

Poppins developed that strange Lobster color - Archie still has usual strong orange/red color.

Poppins' black faded a bit

Archie is part of 'mysterious fungussy spots' group

Einstein was also part of the 'sick fish' group. But his dropsy was very different from the other 2. It was mostly located right behind the gills. It seems to have decreased since the MMs started (and the 3rd prazi week). I might think he is fine now. Have to take a closer look at him in a bowl.

85Gal info

all params are great, 0,0,0 with plants

pH is stable at 8.2

filters all cleaned weekly (I have 4 and I clean 2 weekly since this started)

pipes of canisters are clean too

plants and rocks are taken out weekly for a rinse

2x 50% water changes weekly

they are in at 0.1% salt (for fungus)

Prazi week 3 (since Einstein's swelling could have been a gill irritation?)

all fed MMs since 4 days

hospital tank of Poppins

epson

MMs treatment finished (2 weeks)

currently on JumpStart

does this make any sense?????

Oh and Pixel will do a great job bullying any sick fish. He used to go after Einstein and Archie. But since a few days he is only chasing Archie sometimes.

I am uploading a video of the 85Gal so you guys can see how they are behaving. I can also take one of Poppins if you need.

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okey so today she looks about the same as in the photos.

I need to find another med.

So I can conclude that either it is something going on that is gram pos/gram neg aerobic bacteria??? Otherwise it is a more tricky intestinal parasite which needs Levimasole.

I am not sure which way to go. Advice welcome!!!

when your ready for info on other alterante meds let me know (e mail) and i will give yu alist of what has worked for me.

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Hey Mikroll,

feel free to post your suggestions on this thread, it is easier for me to keep everything in one place.

I know you had recommended fasting (which I couldn't do at the time because I had already started the antibiotic food). But I guess I could try that now on Poppins. Have you had good results with this?

Oh oh oh, forgot to mention. Einstein has these strange swollen spots on his face. Like if the usual spots on his face (line under eyes) have gotten swollen. I do not notice this on the others.

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here you go guys. This is a good representation of their usual activity. Einstein is often seen gulping, Archie does it sometimes. And the little monkeys are usually foraging for food in the plants :)

My link

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any suggestions guys? It seems like the guys in the 85Gal are on the mend. What should I do about Poppins? SHe looks about the same as in the pics still. Still in with Epson (which I will be removing later) and eating JumpStart.

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Okay, so they guys in the main tank seem to be responding to the MMs and the Prazi. I think both Archie and Einstein are no longer prickly. Einstein still has the little spots on his face. I will keep an eye on them. They are all very perky, active and busy. So I think they will be fine.

The issue is Poppins. She is STILL slightly prickly in the butt area. It don't get better and it doesn't get worse. The only thing I have done different with her was the Epson instead of normal salt (main has 0.1%salt) and the main tank got the Prazi, she didn't.

So I was thinking. Should I prazi her and see? I am not sure how this could be related to the dropsy - unless it is intestinal worms?

Besides that she is still very active - maybe slightly thinner. And still the strange lobster color.

Otherwise, I could try the Jungle AP but the only different ingredient than the MMs (except the Prazi) is the Levamisole. Is this worth the try???

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I would prazi her. The prazi can take care of some intestinal worms. Fingers crossed!

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Hi Captain ,

Just re reading your posts . you first reported the swelling at about a good time for eggs and I calculate that the next time frame for that to be is in 10 days time.

So you may plan and prepare for for problem to posssibly repeat begining 18 through 22 Dec. That is if it is egg related.

Eggs & spawning activity is often connected to Lunar cycle new and full moon. I breed my oranda and koi with Lunar timing.

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That is really interesting Mikroll!

How do you usually treat eggbound fish? The thing is that she did improve from 2 weeks ago when I first noticed. But the scales haven't totally gone down yet. Do you think she could still have egg inside? How do you usually help expel the eggs?

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That is really interesting Mikroll!

How do you usually treat eggbound fish? The thing is that she did improve from 2 weeks ago when I first noticed. But the scales haven't totally gone down yet. Do you think she could still have egg inside? How do you usually help expel the eggs?

yes it is, goldfish are pretty good at knowing whenis full moon but the will as we know spawn at any other time too ha ha. mine produced the eggs on time 18-20 Nov and amnow waiting for the next time..19 -21 Dec. But the koi are the experts maybe because they live outside? But they are real bio-clocks and can and do spawn exactly on time each year.

You can see a picture of oranda egg bound and ruputred ovary in my photo bucket. I do not do anything except good food before spawn & good males .

Handspawn assist only when necessary for lots of eggs but I do not recomend it for beginer rookies or to do first time on valued fish.

If you want to see it done let me know and i will give links.

Iam am also interested to know if there is anything good that can aid them.

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Thanx Mikroll, however, she never actually expelled the eggs. :(

My friend in Holland (a much more advanced fish keeper than myself) suggested to put Poppins in 0.7% salt and give her a shot of nuflor antibiotic. He reassured me that this is a risky procedure, but he has never had any problems.

Clearly I am not comfortable with salt at such a high dosage, and I have never given a shot before. Does anyone know if you can give a shot to such a small fish? Poppins is about 10-12cm. He can always do it himself when he comes monday. He already said he will bring some medical stuff incase I need anything.

In the meantime should I then try with the usual salt routine up to 0.3%? I will have to do water changes often tho if I have to take out the zeolite... But if it has a chance of working.

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If she did not expel eggs then maybe she was not ready and will suprise you soon? 3-4 day before and up to full moon.

it is always good to have experinced help. 0.7% is considered the upper limit by many for long bath. I have used 0.4% with bayril and gentalyn mix in a dip with sucess.(not in main tank). also other antibiotics but it depends upon what you are treating for. Any time you put chemicals into fish it is a risk even overfeeding is a risk and shipping or moving fish for that matter. I have a relative in Holland and have fond memory of the many beautiful fish to be seen at shops there.

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Yes they really have awesome fish in Holland, both Goldfish and Kois :)

I will then put her slowly up to 0.3% salt. I can always increase it monday when my friend comes by. Since I have never done it before I am not sure what the warning signs to look for are. What can I do to help her expel the eggs incase it is eggs? It might explain why she isn't getting better or worse. I am feeding her some high protein foods like krill to help get her energy up - this also helps with eggs?

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you might want to speak with some others who know more about egg problem, like steve at rain garden (beko) . sorry but i can not advise more on egg care. mine were very clear problem, sudden swell, then death. or bottom sit, float a little, i give greens spinach and peas and they recover after two days also warm up alittle. other egg problems are clean, as vent swells and is red pus and fish dies. yours does not show these things.

yeah the koi are nice in hollan too!! i have another relative who lives and works in your country but never speaks of nice fish there.

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okay UPDATE!

STILL no flat scales! She is starting to generally fade in color. :(

Last night I did a round of Prazi since it seemed to help the main tank and today I will start raising the salt. I will go up to 0.3% and I can always raise it when my friend is here to supervise. He said that going up to 0.5% is even safe for me to do myself (but I don't want to risk it unless some of you have done it).

I also mentioned to him that Poppins is only about 10cms. He has only ever given a shot to 17cm + goldfish. He said he can check monday if he can give her the shot - but that would be very risky right???

I also contacted my friend of the goldfish here. He says he doubts that it is eggs because she isn't irritated.

So what can I do besides the salt? I wanted to try the Jungle AP food, but in essence it is the same as the MMs. (unless I need one of the other 2 ingredients???)

What about the Maracyns?

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Oh, just read in the FancyGoldfish that they also recommend 0.3-0.6% salt for localized raised scales! HOPE this works!

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I hope the salt helps. I wouldn't be afraid to raise it to .4%, but for a small fish I'd be cautious of going up to .6% -at least for an extended time.

p.s. I love that McQueen in now in your siggy!

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Hey Sakura! Yea I am going up to 0.3 for now. But I feel a little better seeing that both my friend and the FancyGoldfish recommend the same thing. I should have checked the book earlier! :peeka

Yea did you see McQueen :D

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little evening update :)

Poppins is in with salt at 0.2. I am watching water parameters like a hawk. Going up to 0.3 in the morning.

good news is that I fed her boiled spinach at 1pm and there were some real 'nice' green poops in her tank before. So her digestive system seems to still work well :)

I will try to feed her 3 small meals a day - 2 veggie and one protein.

She is still acting happy and is watching me from her tank as I type :heart

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Poor girl. I do think I've read alot about a shot of antiobiotics making a big difference. It is risky I think, but if she isn't improving with anything else it may well be worth the risk.

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Salt is in at 0.3%. She is still pretty happy. My friend will check if he can give her a shot - the problem is her size and the fact that she isn't as used to being handled as his fish. So we will see what to do. My vet had also told me about using Baytril as a bath???

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I knew as a shot it should help with dropsy, but I've never heard of it used as a bath...that is pretty cool.

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So the vet FINALLY answered me - nothing very helpful tho. Like I thought, this is not something he sees with Kois. :( He told me he contacted a friend in Germany who also didn't know for sure what it was caused from. However, they don't think it is from bacteria - hence the pointlessness of the antibiotics. He thinks it is most likely that she has her abdomen full of eggs. This COULD be possible since it seems all my fish are acting out (hormone-wise) - all my males are showing INSANE breeding stars! Maybe something in the weather triggered this? I never heard of males showing breeding stars in the winter? Am I wrong?

Tomorrow my friend is coming over so we will see what he thinks.

Poppins is hanging in there. The salt is at 0.3 and this morning I Prazied her because it looked like her gills were slightly swollen. She is still pretty perky and is still eating and pooping well.

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