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Captain Findus Goldfish

Mary Poppins' Dropsy...

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Hi Everyone.

So a few days ago I noticed that my fantail was starting to dropsy - very slight.

So I put her in a 20Gal Hospital tank - 26C - zeolite - airstones - heater.

I have her on MetroMeds since 2 nights ago. Epson salt at 1/4 teaspoon since yesterday - might increase to 1/2 today. I will also increase the temp slowly to 27-28.

So far no change. This is both good and bad. I figure if she doesn't get worse it is okay.

I am wondering what is causing this tho. She is female so egg problems are in my mind. She is very active and greedy for food which makes me happy.

Could parasites cause it? Or is it most likely bacterial?

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White or clear poop can be indicative of a bacterial infection. Of course increased temp can bring any parasites to the surface to help identify them. Parasite vs bacterial is a hard one to determine. Hopefully sarah pops in.

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Her poop is good thank goodness! :)

I have been learning how to use a microscope - I wanted to try taking a skin scrape - but I am useless in finding anything but parasites. Even then, with dropsy I would probably need to take a sample from INSIDE the body right?

Oh I hope it gets better soon.

Oh and if it was related to organ failure she would be sluggish right? Because she is very active so far. But her tummy seems to wobble a bit - or I could be dreaming it.

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They may or may not become sluggish with organ failure, and generally they only become sluggish in the final couple days before they die. Since she's not responding at all to the Metroeds, I would guess this is probably organ/kidney failure related. I know you have had success treating Dr. House when she has had dropsy, but that is really an exception. In the vast majority of cases dropsy is fatal. :( My vet says regular salt should be used with dropsy rather than epsom; since it's likely caused by kidney failure, the salt alleviates the kidneys from working so hard.

If you can bring her to a vet it would be the best thing. They can aspirate some fluid in the belly and see if the issue is bacterial or not.

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I just emailed him. Maybe he can pass by. But your vet didn't anesthetize the fish when she did it right? He does everything under anesthetic except body scrapes - so it makes me a little nervous.

I just hope it is just egg related. It is a good sign that her poops are good tho. At least those bodily functions work properly.

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oh guys I just saw that lots of her poop is squiggly! This means eggs right??? (all food colored so it's good)

Hopefully the vet answers soon. I wonder what he can do for her. I read that egg impaction can be operated - but I doubt it can be done on such a small fish.

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Yes, squiggly poo means eggs. I just saw some in my tank for the first time too, it was interesting seeing it in person finally! But if the squiggly poo is coming out, that means the fish is reabsorbing the eggs. So I don't know if she would have an impaction...

My vet didn't use anesthesia for the aspirate, no. Isis was really hand-tame and well behaved (no thrashing around) so it was no problem at all! Afterward she kind of floated to the bottom of the bucket like she was a little weirded out, but then she got up and swam almost immediately. I really don't see why anesthesia would be necessary for something like that :hmm

My vet mentioned operating on Isis as well, but she thought that was not really an option because she was "so small". She was about 3.5 inches in body size- my biggest fish at that time.

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I think Poppins is about 15cm - so quite small. And she isn't as tame as the large ryukins, but not too bad either. The vet I have is specialized in kois, so I can understand why he wants to anesthetize the fish :rofl - apparently he always does it, also for just a scrape on Kois - because of the danger of cutting them. I told him my ryukins were very tame so he agreed to do the scrapes with me holding them. It went very well. But he refuses to look into the gills or anything like that without making them sleep. I guess better safe than sorry.

The poop wasn't like this yesterday. I wonder if it is an egg impaction which is getting sorted out? Is that possible? How strange...

I am very happy tho she seems totally happy with her new tank and all the attention :) Keeps begging for food.

Also strange is that in her the dropsy started differently from Dr.House - who always started from the gills down - she started from the butt area (???)

I will do a small water change now and take the epson a tiny bit higher as it isn't in full dose yet. I am reluctant to use regular salt for now because I am using the zeolite (not to bring any nasties she might be sensitive to from the main tank filter)

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Oh true, if you're using zeolite you can't use regular salt. I hope you hear from the vet soon. Did you let him know the dropsy started from the butt area? I have a feeling that might be important for him to know.

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Yea I will let him know the details as soon as he answers. I just asked if he could pass by on the next few days.

Great timing tho. I am so busy with family all over for thanksgiving. :(

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I've been reading about egg impaction and it says to fast your fish so that the fish is forced to reabsorb the eggs for nutrition. I don't know if that would expedite matters or just compact issues. Good luck!

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Hey Federica. So sorry to hear about Mary P. :( Is she dropsied all over now or is it still just around her belly? The difference between dropsy and egg binding is, dropsy bloats the entire body and the scales protrude. Egg binding should only be in the mid belly section. At least the treatment you started on her is also the good treatment if she is egg bound.

I hope your vet will be able to help. :heart

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I am hoping we are looking at egg binding here. It seems likely, especially with this happening in the butt area. Keep us posted.

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Hey guys.

Today she is just as happy. I will try and take a pic of the pineconing. It started in the butt area - but now it is all over - but very slight. She doesn't look SWOLLEN like Dr.House did (the poor dear looked like she was about to explode). But it is all over.

Una, I would fast her but I am so afraid that the possible infection inside with get out of hand if I don't keep feeding the MetroMeds.

The new change is that today the poop is LONG and THIN with white parts and parts of food.... :idont Constipation or proof of infection?

Vet hasn't answered yet :bat:

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He answered :mail:

This was his mail:

Dear Federica,

I would suggest you continue the feeding of MetroMed food for a total of 7-10 days (or whatever they recommend on the package). Usually antibiotics should be given for 10days.

Organ failure is very difficult to diagnose on a live fish because we cannot test the blood parameters.

Aspiration of fluid is only necessary if there is a lot of fluid, we better wait with that.

You should be able to get slides at any physician or veterinarian, otherwise you can get some from me, you can collect them or I can send it to you if you want.

Best regards

I will try and send him a pic of her and we can go from there. Like I told you guys, she isn't very swollen, so I am not sure what he fluid he can get from her at this point.

Oh and the slides business is for my microscope :teehee

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Took another look at her and she is definitely not pineconed near the gills. It is mostly concentrated on the butt area.

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Hey guys! DOn't want to jinx it but I think there has been some definite improvement today! I can barely see the pineconing now. And right now she is pooping nice fat healthy poops.

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Great news! I am still leaning towards an egg issue, which would explain a turn around this quickly.

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Oh,so glad to see this,Fedepurpban.gifMaybe it was eggs,and she's finishing the reabsorbtiongudluksn.gifThat would be fantastichappydance.gifI have a fish that has bounced back from dropsy 2x now-and is just fineNaughty.gif

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Thanx guys! I am always happy to have a 'sick fish' which doesn't act sick! This is like Dr.House! She always had a blast while having Dropsy!

Yea, I think it is egg related as well! Especially because she also seemed to have issues a few months ago. Do some female never release them?

I am keeping the epson in for now as the scales aren't totally flat for now.

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That's what I would do too,Fede-I left Macy in the epsom until his scales had been settled back for a few days-JUST TO BE SUREbingo.gif

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I'm glad things have turned around so quickly. I hope the scales recede just as fast as the other symptoms have seem to disappeared.

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More good news!

So she is mostly all flat! :angelstaf:

She just has a slight TINY lifting right in the butt area. And also in the back 'hump' area - which is strange - those are tiny scales and they still look a little brittle.

She is still eating like a champ so I gave her a tiny portion of boiled spinach as a snack extra to the MetroMeds - to nourish her without overdosing the meds.

Fingers crossed.

Getting my butt in the kitchen now.

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