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New Fish Twitching


macbeth110

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[i can't tell what the exact number is, but it's slightly higher than zero, but less than .05]Ammonia Level?

[?]Nitrite Level?

[?]Nitrate level?

[7.4]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[?]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[mardel]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[65]Water temperature?

[10 gallon quarantine tank]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[Aqueon Power 10 (100gph)]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

[i just got him and set up a quarantine tank]How often do you change the water and how much?

[2, each about 1-2 inches]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[i put stress coat, stress zyme, and aquarium salt]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[i got him about an hour ago, so I haven't fed him yet, but he eats omega one flakes daily]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[just the two I just got]Any new fish added to the tank?

[just the things listed above]Any medications added to the tank?

[He has a small tear in his dorsal fin]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[He seems to be twitching, and bottom sitting]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

So, I just got this little oranda, along with what I think is a panda butterfly about an hour ago and I set up a QT tank for them. The oranda has a very minor tear in his fin, but no other signs of fungus or anything. He was swimming fine at the store, but when I put him in the QT tank, he started twitching. Is this just a sign of stress or should I be concerned? I've attached a link to a video I took of him so you can see what I'm tanking about.

Edited by macbeth110
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I would just continue to keep an eye on them. They look very stressed, probably from their trip home. If you see any other symptoms, then I would come back here asap.

Oh, your tele just looks like a panda. He/she doesn't appear to have a butterfly tail.

Edited by ashlee18
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Giving these guys a day or so to calm down it the best bet. New fish are often skittish.

That being said, I do have some general concerns:

You need to do a large water change. Keep the ammonia at 0ppm.

Also, we need numbers for nitrite and nitrate. It's best to invest in an API Master Test Kit. It's the best buy and the most reliable kit. :)

Another thing is please upgrade your QT or set up another one. 10g for two fish is not enough. Especially in QT when they need to destress and stay as healthy as possible. A 20-30g tank would be much better for these two to be QT'd together.

Don't add anything else to the water. Adding all sorts of "stress relievers" can actually have the opposite effect. If you really want to use one (which you really don't need to) use only one. And preferably one that also removes chlorine.

How much salt is in the tank?

Is there anyway you can raise the heat of the tank?

Do you have Praziquantel on hand? Have you ever used it before?

Have you ever thought about removing or reducing the amount of gravel in that tank? Gravel should really only be a sparse covering of the bottom. When it's really thick like that, bacteria and parasites can burrow down in there untouched by any medications in the tank. Removing it completely is the best route, even if it's just for QT. When you return it it should only be AT MOST 1/4in deep.

Let's get these guys healthy! :)

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Giving these guys a day or so to calm down it the best bet. New fish are often skittish.

That being said, I do have some general concerns:

You need to do a large water change. Keep the ammonia at 0ppm.

Also, we need numbers for nitrite and nitrate. It's best to invest in an API Master Test Kit. It's the best buy and the most reliable kit. :)

Another thing is please upgrade your QT or set up another one. 10g for two fish is not enough. Especially in QT when they need to destress and stay as healthy as possible. A 20-30g tank would be much better for these two to be QT'd together.

Don't add anything else to the water. Adding all sorts of "stress relievers" can actually have the opposite effect. If you really want to use one (which you really don't need to) use only one. And preferably one that also removes chlorine.

How much salt is in the tank?

Is there anyway you can raise the heat of the tank?

Do you have Praziquantel on hand? Have you ever used it before?

Have you ever thought about removing or reducing the amount of gravel in that tank? Gravel should really only be a sparse covering of the bottom. When it's really thick like that, bacteria and parasites can burrow down in there untouched by any medications in the tank. Removing it completely is the best route, even if it's just for QT. When you return it it should only be AT MOST 1/4in deep.

Let's get these guys healthy! :)

The ammonia is a bit high because I juts started the tank when I got the fish. I put the chemicals in because the stress zyme adds necessary bacteria since the tank is new, and the stress coat dechlorinates the water and helps mend torn fins, which he has. I plan on doing daily water changes to keep the ammonia as low as possible.

I can't give you an exact number for the amount of salt I put in, but I added about 1/3 of what is suggested for a 10 gallon tank, and I plan to gradually increase it so as to not shock the fish.

The gravel in the tank is not thick at all. In fact, it barely covers the bottom of the whole tank. I added it to hopefully get a build up of good bacteria in it.

As for the size of the tank, I don't think it's going to be a problem. The fish are very small, about 1.5 inches, and I don't plan to keep them there permanently, just for about 2 weeks.

I do have a heater. What should the temp be?

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The ammonia is a bit high because I juts started the tank when I got the fish. I put the chemicals in because the stress zyme adds necessary bacteria since the tank is new, and the stress coat dechlorinates the water and helps mend torn fins, which he has. I plan on doing daily water changes to keep the ammonia as low as possible.

That's a good plan. The daily changes, I mean. I honestly don't think that adding "cycle" products works, but to each his own I guess. I am worried about adding tons of stuff to your water, especially since you are overstocked.

I can't give you an exact number for the amount of salt I put in, but I added about 1/3 of what is suggested for a 10 gallon tank, and I plan to gradually increase it so as to not shock the fish.

Suggested by whom? This forum, or the box? If it was the box, don't use those directions. There is a link to salting in my signature that I highly recommend. If it was this forum, then did you add 1/3 of the initial dose (1 tsp/gal) or the end dose (3tsp/gal). In otherwords, did you add <1 tsp per gal> or <1/3 tsp per gal?>

The gravel in the tank is not thick at all. In fact, it barely covers the bottom of the whole tank. I added it to hopefully get a build up of good bacteria in it.

The amount of bacteria that live in your gravel is negligible compared to what lives in your filter. I recommend taking the gravel out, at least in the QT tank. It poses all sorts of problems and will make your tank messier since food and poop will get stuck in it.

As for the size of the tank, I don't think it's going to be a problem. The fish are very small, about 1.5 inches, and I don't plan to keep them there permanently, just for about 2 weeks.

Two weeks is a long time for a fish. I know they look small, but they produce a LOT of ammonia, especially when they are stressed...such as in a tank that is too small. Honestly, a bigger QT tank will make for less work for you.

Besides, a QT period should never be less than a month. That way you can do a full regime of Prazi, salt, and any antibiotic/parasitic food you may need to administer (only use the latter if there is concrete cause, the other two should be always used).

I do have a heater. What should the temp be?

During a QT period you should gradually (no more than 2*F per hour) increase the temperature to 80*F. This will help bring any parasites (like Ich) to the surface so you can identify and treat them. At the end of their QT period gradually decrease (again no more than 2*F per hour) to whatever the main tank is set to. :)

Have you ever used Prazi? It should be a part of your regular QT regime. Especially for fish who are "twitching" or flashing.

:) I don't mean to sound mean, but I really think you should take my advice on the above points. I have seen too many fish die because I didn't listen to the basic requirements. I am honestly only trying to give your fish the best chance and give you the least amount of work. :twocents

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The ammonia is a bit high because I juts started the tank when I got the fish. I put the chemicals in because the stress zyme adds necessary bacteria since the tank is new, and the stress coat dechlorinates the water and helps mend torn fins, which he has. I plan on doing daily water changes to keep the ammonia as low as possible.

That's a good plan. The daily changes, I mean. I honestly don't think that adding "cycle" products works, but to each his own I guess. I am worried about adding tons of stuff to your water, especially since you are overstocked.

I can't give you an exact number for the amount of salt I put in, but I added about 1/3 of what is suggested for a 10 gallon tank, and I plan to gradually increase it so as to not shock the fish.

Suggested by whom? This forum, or the box? If it was the box, don't use those directions. There is a link to salting in my signature that I highly recommend. If it was this forum, then did you add 1/3 of the initial dose (1 tsp/gal) or the end dose (3tsp/gal). In otherwords, did you add <1 tsp per gal> or <1/3 tsp per gal?>

The gravel in the tank is not thick at all. In fact, it barely covers the bottom of the whole tank. I added it to hopefully get a build up of good bacteria in it.

The amount of bacteria that live in your gravel is negligible compared to what lives in your filter. I recommend taking the gravel out, at least in the QT tank. It poses all sorts of problems and will make your tank messier since food and poop will get stuck in it.

As for the size of the tank, I don't think it's going to be a problem. The fish are very small, about 1.5 inches, and I don't plan to keep them there permanently, just for about 2 weeks.

Two weeks is a long time for a fish. I know they look small, but they produce a LOT of ammonia, especially when they are stressed...such as in a tank that is too small. Honestly, a bigger QT tank will make for less work for you.

Besides, a QT period should never be less than a month. That way you can do a full regime of Prazi, salt, and any antibiotic/parasitic food you may need to administer (only use the latter if there is concrete cause, the other two should be always used).

I do have a heater. What should the temp be?

During a QT period you should gradually (no more than 2*F per hour) increase the temperature to 80*F. This will help bring any parasites (like Ich) to the surface so you can identify and treat them. At the end of their QT period gradually decrease (again no more than 2*F per hour) to whatever the main tank is set to. :)

Have you ever used Prazi? It should be a part of your regular QT regime. Especially for fish who are "twitching" or flashing.

:) I don't mean to sound mean, but I really think you should take my advice on the above points. I have seen too many fish die because I didn't listen to the basic requirements. I am honestly only trying to give your fish the best chance and give you the least amount of work. :twocents

I added the heater and I am closely monitoring the temp rise. I also kicked my snake out of his 20 long tank and made that the qt tank (the snake won't mind living in a 10 gal for a while, he spends all his time curled into a ball anyway). I didn't put any gravel in the new tank, nor did I add all of the chemicals I added yesterday (just conditioner, obviously). I did salt the water again. I didn't follow the directions on the box, I found info on this forum and added .1% as recommended, and will gradually increase to .3% over the next few days. This is the advice I was following --> "Salinity is raised over the course of three days to 0.3% (zero point three percent). The salinity remains at 0.3% for the duration of the one month quarantine period." I also added a bigger filter and an air stone. I do not have prazi, and unfortunately all of the pet stores near me are p3tc0 and p3tsm@rt, which don't carry prazi. Is there a more commercial alternative, or should I order it online?

And btw, you don't sound mean. I understand that you're trying to help me do what is best for my fish and I really, really appreciate the advice :)

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The 20gal will make a great temporary QT! Just be sure to watch it closely as some reptile tanks aren't sealed as well as fish tanks, so it may leak a little bit. :) And removing the gravel will give you much more peace of mind. If you don't like the look of a barebottom tank you can add a few handfuls of river rocks, or even your gravel. But not enough to cover the whole bottom, just a scattering.

I'm glad to hear that you aren't adding the chemicals. I know a few people swear by them, but in my experience they don't speed things up. And the more stuff you put in the water, the less room there is in the water for oxygen, minerals, medications, etc. Water can only hold so much stuff after all!

Those are the right directions for salting. I love the wording, too. It's very simple and easy to understand...none of this science mumbo jumbo! (I'm NOT a science person, so I like the simple terms!)

A bigger filter and airstone sound like they will be great. Did you add the older filter media from your 100gph filter? If not, is it still wet? I would definitely add it in if it is. And if it's only just a little damp, I'd still add it in. Better safe than sorry when it comes to cycling.

Prazi is available under the name "PraziPro" by Hikari brand. It's the best stuff to use. The two catch-all chains (co and smart) don't usually carry it. Sometimes you can find it at -smart. If not, try smaller stores. If you still can't find it, there are tablets called "Parasite Clear Fizzing Tabs" by Jungle Labs. They contain prazi and some other stuff, so aren't quite as effective as pure prazi, but if you'd rather buy something in store rather than ship it, they are an ok alternative. I know that -smart carries these tabs.

If you are going for something online, I recommend getting the powder from goldfishconnection.com only because it's a much better buy overall. It requires a bit of math and maybe a really fine scale, but for the amount you get, it's like buying five bottles of the Hikari stuff (which is about five times more expensive)! I really should buy a bottle of this stuff since I use prazi all the time!

Let's see.....one Tablespoon treats 500g so one Teaspoon treats...167-ish gal.....so 1/4tsp treats roughly 40g...so 1/8tsp treats 20g. O...that wasn't so bad! :)

How is the twitching going? Have they calmed down a bit?

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It'll be interesting to see what develops when the temp is raised properly. I hope nothing seeing as you are having difficulties getting praziquantel. I have no helpful advice that Sarah hasn't already said, she has done a very thorough job. I hope everything goes well.

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They actually seem much calmer today. I spent the entire day monitoring them and making sure the heat is raised properly. So far, I don't see any signs of parasites or fungus or anything. I just ordered some prazi from goldfishconnection.com, which I will be putting in as soon as it comes.

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I'm glad to hear it all worked out! Keep us updated.

Here's to hoping you have a completely uneventful quarantine period for these two cuties (and that you post LOTS of pictures yeah.gif)

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