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SGcvn69

Injured Fantail

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My fantail is about 3" long. This past spring, I was given 13 Red Tip Honduran Cichlids and was told they were peaceful in a community tank. Well they are about 2" long now and they beat up my big guy :( He had a fat right lip for awhile and it is all droopy. I separated him and the redness has subsided, but now there is a gigantic hole above that right lip! I can see his lower lip moving through it! What do I do?! What CAN I do?! Will it heal?

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Sorry this happened to your fantail. I know you have him isolated now but could you please answer the following questions so we can better help you. :)

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[*]Water temperature?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

Don't know, have to test.

[*]Nitrite Level?

Don't know, have to test.

[*]Nitrate level?

Don't know, have to test.

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

Don't know, have to test.

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

Don't know, have to test.

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

It's drops, forget the name of it.

[*]Water temperature?

68/70˚?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

29 gal, since 2001

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

AquaClear 150

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

Lately, not very often. Have been too busy and it is due.

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

13 cichlids (up to 2")

2 clown loaches (2")

1 clown pleco (2.5")

5 bettas (1.5")

2 goldfish (2.5-3")

5 pygmy cories (.5")

2 cories (1")

5 white clouds (1")

5 marisa snails (up to 2")

various Nerite snails

I know...it's overpopulated! :)

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

Just dechlorinator

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

Flake food, sometimes frozen. They are fed once a day max.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

Not lately

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

Giving antibiotic food to fantail

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

Red spots on face of injured area, which are now gone.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

No

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Thanks for answering those questions. If you could test the water where the injured fantail is that would really help.

Is he now in a qt tank? If so how many gallons is that?

How long has he been taking antibiotic food?

What he needs now is very clean water so his injury doesn't get infected. You might want to add some aquarium salt to his water, the dosage is 1 teaspoon for every gallon of water. I would start with that until a mod stops by. :)

If I were you I would remove the other goldfish from the main tank too. Goldfish and tropicals don't mix well.

How long have you had the cichlids in with all of the other fish? I'm very worried that you will have other injuries in the future. Cichlids of any sort are very aggressive and so are bettas. I would worry that eventually you might just have a war in your tank. :(

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Testing will have to wait...I have a quiz tomorrow and I have a full day tomorrow too :(

No he's not in a quarantine tank...I have a tank divider so I just stuck that in and sectioned him off from the rest. He's hanging out w/ the butterfly tail. He hasn't gotten the antibiotic food for long...just a few days as I remembered I had it, but don't know how effective it is since it is quite old. :(

It looks like it is healing, just a very big hole. :\ Can't add salt to the tank b/c of the inverts.

The Bettas are Betta splendans, very peaceful actually! Heater is broken, that's why the temps are so low. Tropical seems to be doing ok w/ the low temps surprisingly! I've had them get along with goldfish before, even cichlids, which is why when I was told these guys were ok that I expected them to be! <sigh> Doubt there will be any wars if it happens. I will just have missing fish!

Thanks for answering those questions. If you could test the water where the injured fantail is that would really help.

Is he now in a qt tank? If so how many gallons is that?

How long has he been taking antibiotic food?

What he needs now is very clean water so his injury doesn't get infected. You might want to add some aquarium salt to his water, the dosage is 1 teaspoon for every gallon of water. I would start with that until a mod stops by. :)

If I were you I would remove the other goldfish from the main tank too. Goldfish and tropicals don't mix well.

How long have you had the cichlids in with all of the other fish? I'm very worried that you will have other injuries in the future. Cichlids of any sort are very aggressive and so are bettas. I would worry that eventually you might just have a war in your tank. :(

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I know what it is like to get a sick fish when you are so busy. :hug

Do you have any way to pick up a rubbermaid container and an extra filter? In a pinch that would do to isolate him. That way you could treat him with salt and maybe some melafix to help heal that wound.

But whatever you do you need to keep his water very clean and especially keep the other fish away from him as they might be tempted to pick on a fish who is ill. :(

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He's been in his current situation for a few days now. The butterfly tail leaves him alone. I'd have to see what containers I have around...those cichlids just had babies so my 5 gal back up is being used :\

I know what it is like to get a sick fish when you are so busy. :hug

Do you have any way to pick up a rubbermaid container and an extra filter? In a pinch that would do to isolate him. That way you could treat him with salt and maybe some melafix to help heal that wound.

But whatever you do you need to keep his water very clean and especially keep the other fish away from him as they might be tempted to pick on a fish who is ill. :(

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Okay well let us know what you manage to fix up and then we'll see what we can do.

Unfortunately in the main tank you can't really treat him except by keeping him quiet as you already are with the divider and keeping the water pristine with wc.

You say he had his injury for a few days already, does it seem to be getting worse or better? How is he acting? Any chance of a pic, I know you won't have time yet but eventually it might help to see the injury? :)

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I really agree here that the best situation is to eventually get the goldfish their own tank. Cichlids are notoriously agressive and besides being in an overstocked tank the goldfish are probably being tormented. A picture would help and salt would and a quiet qt tank is ideal for healing an injury. Hang in there!

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As no one else tackled this issue yet: I know you smile and say your tank is over popuated, but actually this is a massive understatement.

Technically the two goldfish alone should have your 29 gallon tank to be able to live healthy and grow. :)

Five bettas, what gender are they? If they are female they might be fine together - except for the stress from the overstocked tank. If they are male, then this is a really bad idea. If they are male and peaceful as you say, I take this as a bad sign. They probably are so stressed out over the big crowd that they don't even know where to start setting their territories. :undecided:

I don't know much about the cichlids but that they are quite territorial as well but I think that 13 of them in 29 gallons is also too much, even if there were no other fish or snails. After all honduran cichlids grow to 5 inches.

You have listed 40 live animals plus some more snails in a 29 gallon tank. I don't even want to think about the amount of waste in the tank. I added it up to 64.5 inches length of live animal, this does not include the various nerite snails you mentioned.

Also, what does "not very often" mean when it comes to water change? Are you aware that the fish are living in their own excrements? It would be like locking you in a small bathroom with 5 other people with a clogged toilet and no toilet paper. And you would have to live, eat and sleep there. I'm not trying to pick on you, just trying to help you realize how terribly overstocked your tank is :(

I would suggest either rehoming a lot of your fish and snails or look on craigslist for new tanks and divide your fish up. Keep the goldis in the 29 and if you find maybe a 75 gallon tank for the rest of the fish and snails. Not sure if that would be big enough for them as I have no personal experience with these other fish.

Craigslist often has REALLY good deals on large tanks!

Or if you really are too busy to take care of them you should maybe try to rehome all of them to make sure they stay healthy and will be happy again :)

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Amy: Tried to get a pic of it, but he is camera shy about that side of him! Won't even let me look at it! When he sees that I am looking he turns away! LOL

Oerba:

I did't plan on keeping the cichlids. They were too small to give away/sell at the time so I was basically just raising them till they were big enough. I guess that time has come!

The Bettas don't look stressed actually. They seem to lose their color when they are and they are actually looking more beautiful! Go figure. They're the mouth brooding types, not the same as the ones sold in pet stores. You can actually keep males together with this kind. Got them at an auction...there are 1 female and 4 males. Unfortunately, I did not have a choice regarding choosing the ratio! They hide really well even before the cichlids came along! I give them a lot of caves to hide in.

And yes, I know they swim in their own feces. If you were taking 17 credits you'd understand too. Semester is almost over and soon as I can squeeze out a spare moment I am doing a few water changes! I don't really have space for more tanks or else I would get more. It's a very small house and we're crowded as it is.

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I'm with fang on this one :) I couldn't have said it better :) I do hope for all the fish's sakes you do some research and decide on what you wold like to keep and go from there or as Fang suggested if your really to busy maybe just re home all of them and start over when you have time :)

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By the way, all this focus on the overpopulated tank, but no one has told me whether it will heal or not?

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I think if you were to move the injured fantail into a qt tank with good clean salted water in time it should heal up :)

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I think if you were to move the injured fantail into a qt tank with good clean salted water in time it should heal up :)

Ok good I don't want him to live with a hole in his face! Did a small water change prior to leaving this am. Will suck out more tonight. I have a 10 gallon tank upstairs that I used for my lizard that I will test out the seals on while I clean it. Hopefully it is still water tight as it was told to me when I bought it (used). I can keep him upstairs...colder room, which ought to be fine. Just gotta find that new spong filter I bought awhile ago since my other filters will suck his fins in :S Wish me luck on finding the filter and that the tank is waterproof!

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By the way, all this focus on the overpopulated tank, but no one has told me whether it will heal or not?

Actually it was already said before "all the focus on the overstocked tank that" you should quarantine the fish, keep the water very clear and add salt. Aquarium salt or pure salt (no additives like anti caking agents, iodine etc!!) 1 level teaspoon per gallon. This usually helps healing injuries the best, unless they're badly infected :)

And again, I am not trying to pick on you or point you out as horrible person or whatever. We all started out wrong with fish keeping; I did my own share on this with 10 fish in a 10 gallon tank, which is the reason why I am trying to help you with this.

Even if your fish do fine so far, when they grow more (as said the honduran cichlids grow to up to 5 inches each, and fancy goldfish can grow up to 8 inches. This does not even include the rest of the fish yet) there will be more and more problems.

I still don't know how often you change the water but as a basic rule in a correctly stocked goldfish tank (which would be only the 2 goldfish in your tank) you need to change at least 50% of the water weekly as the ammonia from the waste can become toxic to the fish and make them sick or even kill them. :(

You obviously care for your fish or you would not ask for advice about them on here. :)

Of course I am in no position to tell you what to do, but for the sake of the fish you will do good to rehome at least the cichlids, as you already implied. Maybe most of the snails also as snails are some of the aquatic pets that poop most. Seriously, they are champions. I have an extra filter in my tank solely for the purpose to get rid of the snail poo in the corner where most of their waste collects.

I don't know how much you know about fish keeping (not saying you're dumb or anything, but I don't know you and don't know what you know!), goldfish become stunted if they do not have enough room to grow. There is a wonderful article somewhere here on the forum about how the goldfish stop growing on the outside but their organs keep growing which ultimately can lead to organ failure and death. :(

Too bad you don't have room for at least one other tank. If you get rid of the cichlids and maybe some more fish (just make sure they go to good homes, you don't want to have put in so much work to raise those cuties and then have them end up in someone's betta bowl... ) I wonder if one additional 29 gallon tank would be enough for like the bettas, minnows and some of the corys.

But so you can decide about what to do with the fish, here some info on the ones you got:

Clown Loach

I would definitely rehome them. Recently I was pondering about getting some for my own tropical tank until I found out that these buggers grow to be 12-16 inches !!!! and need a minimum of 50 gallons :o Bugs me cause I really wanted some.

Pygmy Cory

They should be fine as they only grow to a little over 1 inch.

Clown Pleco

They grow to be 4 inches and their tank should be at least 24 inches in length. So having one in there I think is alright.

Betta Splendens

I don't know who told you that you can keep more than one in a tank because splendens are more peaceful, as this is untrue. There is a reason why even Betta Splendens are sold in single bowls at petstores and not all together in a tank. They aren't called "Siamese Fighting Fish" for no reason :(

I suppose you have been lucky so far or they really are too confused over all the fish.

They also do require a much lower pH than goldfish. 5.5 - 7.0 while goldfish should have at least 7.5.

White Cloud Minnows

Should normally be kept in schools of at least 6, but I think it won't hurt them to be only 5. They grow to 2 inches in length and should be fine in the 29 gallon tank.

Cory Cat

Prefer to be kept in schools of at least 6, but many keep only 1 or 2. Growing to 2.5 inches they might be fine as well.

Marisa Snail

I can't really find much info about them online, but it seems they are some sort of apple snail. Apple snails grow to 2 inches and should have 2.5 gallons each as they are little poop machines. So the five you got need almost half of your tank by themselves.

Nerite Snail

Supposedly does not exceed 1 inch. I do not know how many you have though.

Fancy Goldfish

Needs 20 gallons for the first fish, 10 gallons each for every other fancy goldfish. Needs pH of 7.5 and higher. Also requires 10x filtration since they poop a lot.

To keep your fish healthy and safe you will either have to upgrade or give away some fish :( As a rule of thumb 1 gallon per 1 inch adult tropical fish and snail.

I hope this will help you with figuring out what to do :)

And if this 10 gallon tank is not water proof, for a few bucks you can get aquarium sealant at petstores :) You can seal little leaks with it and it won't harm the fish if you let the silicone cure long enough.

Good luck with all that! :)

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Fang, thank you for being so honest and doing all the research. A+++ post!

I just want to add that although your fantail will most likely heal, if it goes right back in the same situation it will most likely have other isses/injuries/poor water quality sickness again.

I am pretty curious as to what your water readings are. Can you test the water and post the results?:testkit:

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Too hard to type a long response on a phone, but just wanted to say it is not Betta splendans that I have, it's Betta simplex, different species. The kind you find at the pet store are splendans, which do fight and have to be kept apart.

The other schooling fish...I had more. Not with the crowd I have now, but I had a massive Cory die off. Had 9 White Clouds, but I accidentally did not cover up the tank well and they committed suicide so I am down to 9. :(

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It is my understanding that fish will only jump out if the water is particularly horrible...sounds like it is time to test your water.

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Clown Loach

I would definitely rehome them. Recently I was pondering about getting some for my own tropical tank until I found out that these buggers grow to be 12-16 inches !!!! and need a minimum of 50 gallons :o Bugs me cause I really wanted some.

I only got them to control the Malasian snail colony that has decided to settle in my tank. If and when they get too big I will find them a new home.

Betta Splendens

I don't know who told you that you can keep more than one in a tank because splendens are more peaceful, as this is untrue. There is a reason why even Betta Splendens are sold in single bowls at petstores and not all together in a tank. They aren't called "Siamese Fighting Fish" for no reason :(

I suppose you have been lucky so far or they really are too confused over all the fish.

They also do require a much lower pH than goldfish. 5.5 - 7.0 while goldfish should have at least 7.5.

See previous post.

White Cloud Minnows

Should normally be kept in schools of at least 6, but I think it won't hurt them to be only 5. They grow to 2 inches in length and should be fine in the 29 gallon tank.

See previous post.

Cory Cat

Prefer to be kept in schools of at least 6, but many keep only 1 or 2. Growing to 2.5 inches they might be fine as well.

See previous post.

Marisa Snail

I can't really find much info about them online, but it seems they are some sort of apple snail. Apple snails grow to 2 inches and should have 2.5 gallons each as they are little poop machines. So the five you got need almost half of your tank by themselves.

Yes, they are apple snails. I didn't have 5 before...they had babies.

Nerite Snail

Supposedly does not exceed 1 inch. I do not know how many you have though.

Me either. Some of them was snacked on by the loaches if they weren't able to right themselves so not sure how many are left...I see a big one and two little ones, I think.

And if this 10 gallon tank is not water proof, for a few bucks you can get aquarium sealant at petstores :) You can seal little leaks with it and it won't harm the fish if you let the silicone cure long enough.

Have some, hopefully it is still good! Just gotta scrub the tank and test it.

It is my understanding that fish will only jump out if the water is particularly horrible...sounds like it is time to test your water.

Actually, no. Some fish are known jumpers and these are one of them.

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I did find this about them: "White Clouds have been known to jump out on rare occasions" from Wikipedia. I guess a cover is especially important with them.

Regardless, \you really need to test your water, especially with the amount of fish and how infrequently you change your water.

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This one isn't so bad to see the hole. It wasn't open when I first saw that he was injured, just puffy and red:

IMG_1969.JPG

Kinda hard to see in this pic...area is all blurry:

IMG_1965.JPG

Tried to tweak the contrast on this pic to see better, but it doesn't look like it worked:

IMG_1968.JPG

This is probably the best image. You can see is bottom lip through the hole in this pic:

IMG_1967.JPG

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I wouldn't say on rare occasions. I've had them in the past and they all jump! Especially when they know food is coming!

Changed some more of the water tonight so testing probably won't reflect what it was. The last time I changed it was probably about a month ago.

I did find this about them: "White Clouds have been known to jump out on rare occasions" from Wikipedia. I guess a cover is especially important with them.

Regardless, \you really need to test your water, especially with the amount of fish and how infrequently you change your water.

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Ouch, that looks painful. I'm not sure if the hole will close up completely or if the damaged tissue will simply heal and leave the hole in the middle. I once got a fish from a petstore that had a similar injury, but it already was healed up. The missing part hadn't grown back though and so you could always see his bottom lip like that.

In your case, the other fish literally bit a piece out of your fish :( And it worries me how close they got to his eye too; lucky he still has it.. That poor thing went through h ell in your tank :(

EDIT: Really?? "h ell" without a space is banned from the vocabulary of this forum??? I guess we won't have any religious conversations on here then LMAO!

Edited by Oerba Yun Fang

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LOL funny about the H-word :) Guess you will have to say H-E-double hockey sticks LMAO!!!

When I first found him there was no hole! Just swollen, kinda splotchy red and a droopy lip. Since I have put the divider into the tank, this is how it has healed! I'm thinking it may not close all the way, which is why I posted here...hoping that against all hopes that you guys would say it would grow in :( At least he is still able to eat. Probably not with as good of suction as before though, but being able to eat will help!

I had a thought last night....ya'll said put salt into the tank...well...wouldn't that sting on an open wound, if it is still open and not healed over into a hole like the pics show? I plan on putting some Melafix into the water soon as I get this tank cleaned out. I guess I could put some into the main tank also.

Ouch, that looks painful. I'm not sure if the hole will close up completely or if the damaged tissue will simply heal and leave the hole in the middle. I once got a fish from a petstore that had a similar injury, but it already was healed up. The missing part hadn't grown back though and so you could always see his bottom lip like that.

In your case, the other fish literally bit a piece out of your fish :( And it worries me how close they got to his eye too; lucky he still has it.. That poor thing went through h ell in your tank :(

EDIT: Really?? "h ell" without a space is banned from the vocabulary of this forum??? I guess we won't have any religious conversations on here then LMAO!

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