My Friend's Tank

[pss_gold]

My friend woke up yesterday and over half of her fish were dead! She doesn't know what happened. Her big back moor is still alive though and i had her bring it over to my place so I can take care of it while she's at class.

Here's the info I have about her tank:

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? Unknown

[*]Nitrite Level? Unknown

[*]Nitrate level? Unknown

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? the water she brought me had a ph of 8.6 or maybe higher

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? same tap water I have so 3ppm of ammonia and ph of 8.4

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? api drop test

[*]Water temperature? Unknown

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? I think 29 but i don't know how long. i guess since august at this place

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Unknown

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? She changes about half a week

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? she had a 6 inch black moor, 1-3" oranda, 1 4" black moor, and tons of various tropicals

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Unknown

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Unknown/flakes

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? she added a barb and the oranda about 3 weeks ago

[*]Any medications added to the tank? none

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?none that I see on the moor

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?fish is not eating and does not have much energy. Has improved since being taken out of the tank and placed in clean water. whatever it is has also killed off her snails

I know pH crashes can cause a sudden kill off but she has said her water has been cloudy before and after water changes. She still has some gouramis left but that's about it. We really want big mama to make it. I'm thinking add a tsp of salt and keep watch?

I think she's going to strip down her tank when she has time and get whatever was in there out. For now, big mama is in my 10 gallon quarantine with hard water, prime, bubbles, and cycled aqua clear 20. will add salt once I have enough water collected. I'm glad she only lives a couple doors down.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Yuko

[pss_gold]

hello?

[Hidr]

Need the test numbers. Also you should not keep tropicals with goldfish. She sounds over stocked. So a new tank for the topicals and make sure she has enough filteration for the goldfish. And extra water changes until we have more info and can help her better.

[number20121]

3 ppm ammonia is BAD. It should be 0. Even 0.5 can already affect a fish negatively, 3 is six times as strong!

Tropicals shouldn't be kept with goldfish as they require different temperature, pH and hardness.

The tank is only big enough to support the 3 fancy goldfish. The "tons of tropicals" are probably the main cause for the toxic ammonia. The 50% weekly water change is far from sufficient enough.

Your post also does not say which of the fish die. Only one of the goldfish is still alive? How many of the tropicals died? A rought estimate of how many tropicals were in there? Don't downsize the number though, after all we're trying to save the remaining fish

The overstocking and insufficient water change causing toxic ammonia levels is the only thing I can think of as a reason right now. The fact that the goldi improved since he got placed in clean water supports this idea.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Oerba Yun Fang

[pss_gold]

the 3ppm is from the tap and is from chloramine. Not from her fish. She doens't test her tank though and because of the water changes, I can't really know what the levels were at the die off point. She said the water was changed two days prior to death day. I'll ask what conditioner she uses and let her buy some of my bio material off me. I think she just uses pads, not real biomedia. I don't really even know if her tank is cycled... :/ Either way, I think she'll need to start over. I'll let her borrow my r/o and see where we get. I'll suggest biozyme since it has worked to cycle my brother's tank.

I'm having her salt and heat her tank. 1/4 cup per gallon and temp as high as my 300watt heater will take it. Probably about 98, maybe higher. Also having her boil all her gravel and stuffs for 10 mins. Hopefully this can get things back to normal.

I think her tank is around... low 70's i want to say. I know she wont separate her tropicals from her goldfish but I will make the recommendation to do so. She's bringing the rest of the live fish over and I'm changing water everywhere. I'm thinking I'll put her tropicals in with my snails since their numbers could use some controlling. I'll let you know who's alive once I know. Also, one of her snails is alive.

I'll get a list of what died and post it. You think adding the one additional 2.5" oranda could have pushed the tank over the edge after 3 weeks? Seems like it should have happened a bit faster...

Big mama is eating again and I think will make a full recovery.

[pss_gold]

Are you ready for this? hahaha...ha...

Ones that died:

1-3.5" shubbie,

1-1" pearlscale,

1-3" oranda,

1- 3.5" black moor,

2 mollies,

2 cherry barbs,

1 snail

Alive:

6 Gouramis

1 cool catfish dude about 5" long with tan horizontal stripes

2 snails

1 cory

2 cherry barbs

big mama

Ok, so I think I know what happened. She had changed the filter pad a few days ago and while she does have two filters, she took out half her cycle then added 3ppm of ammonia!! I tried to tell her that and she didn't really understand... but I'll do what I can the next time she comes over. She doesn't seem to care when they die other than big mama... So basically she had a cycle crash.. I recommended amquel + to her and I'll have her add it to the water before she puts it in her tank so hopefully she can stop adding ammonia... :/

[pss_gold]

ok, all the living fish except for big mama are in the 15 gallon with the filter she brought over. It's a tetra 20. There might be some ammonia burns and the catfish has some muck on his head. I'm hoping with clean water and 10x filtration, they'll feel better. there are tons of plants in the tank so they're feeling pretty secure. The one cherry barb might not make it, it was looking pretty listless but maybe it'll perk up in a couple hours.

A couple of the gouramis are really fat and may be pregnant. I hope they don't decide that now that the water is better to spawn lol I have enough baby snails, i don't need baby gouramis too lol

[pss_gold]

ok, it was NOT an ammonia spike or anything. It was a pH crash. I tested her water and there was no KH in it at all. The tap comes out at 6 degrees and GH of 8. I had her take out all the ornaments and we're thinking one of them is the culprit. I'm having her stir her water with crushed coral and i'm letting her use my correct pH tabs to try to get it up. Her snails have been disintegrating too.

The pH comes out of the tap at 8.4 and it's dropped below 6 as of today. She had it filled Saturday, changed water on Tuesday and added 4"pearlscale, then changed again on Thursday.

Her ammonia is at .25, no nitrites, nitrates 5-10. I used my api drops for all tests.

Any suggestions on how to fix this disappearing KH?

[Guest karealot76]

Hi, I am the friend she has so kindly told you all about. Finally came on here for help. We added the tabs to my water and now the pH is at 7. How should I maintain the pH level for the future water changes? Thanks =)

[number20121]

Crushed coral works very well to keep the pH balanced, but if the pH from the tap is much different from what it is going to be in the tank with the crushed coral, then you will have to age your water over night before a water change or use other supplements.

I read on another thread a few days ago about "buff it up" that you can order online. I don't know how exactly it works and what exactly it is. I believe goldfishconnection sells it!

BTW: Hello and welcome to Koko's!

Edited December 4, 2010 by Oerba Yun Fang

[AMeyers]

If you are still salting the 15 gallon, be careful with the tropicals and salt.

There could be an issue with the catfish. Not sure about the cherries.

[pss_gold]

I didn't salt my 15 when her fish were in there. She used 1/4 cup per gallon w/o fish to sterilize her tank just in case. They all seem to be doing better now that it's stable. Hopefully without the ornaments, the kH will stay.

[AMeyers]

Gah. Sorry. I am clearly unable to multitask this evening.

It sounds like you have a project on your hands. Your friend is lucky.

[pss_gold]

It's alright, no worries. I have so many "tanks" running it's hard to keep straight some times and then I add my friend's. lol

any ideas where the kH is going if it wasn't the ornament?

one of the snails also has a hole in its shell, any good way to patch it? egg shell?

We're going to keep an eye on it. She had to get a clarifier because her water was very cloudy (not from the coral). Hopefully it will work and we can clearly see fish again. I'm really glad my water looks almost like it's not there I'm so thankful for my r/o.

[number20121]

I recently read that you can patch a snails shell with a piece of egg shell and super glue. It is most important though that the glue does not come in contact with the snail's tissue and it has to be 100% cured before you put the snail back in the water.

I never knew that, but dried superglue is perfectly aquarium safe. Supposedly marine reef tank owners use it to glue live coral to rock.

Weird.

[pss_gold]

My friend hasn't posted about it yet but we're thinking big mama has some fin rot

Will it go away if we keep the water clean or do we need to do something?

Thanks

[AMeyers]

My friend hasn't posted about it yet but we're thinking big mama has some fin rot

Will it go away if we keep the water clean or do we need to do something?

Thanks

Keeping pristine water conditions should clear it up. It would depend on how bad you view the fin rot to be.

[pss_gold]

Last time I saw, it was just white fuzz on the edge. Hopefully we can keep the water good and all will get better

[Guest karealot76]

Sorry for not posting, didnt have my computer on =/ but its on her dorsal fin on the very back. Ill keep an eye on it, but my water isn't getting any clearer. Im afraid to change the water already since my fish are happy in it and I dont have my water testing kit yet (its coming in the mail....) Not sure how to fix it! the water clarifier isn't helping at all.

[koko]

Well first off KH gets consumed by the Ph and the fish. So if the KH is to low it will make the Ph crash causing the cycle to crash. This is the reason we all need to check the Kh and make sure its atleast 130ppm in the tank. Also if you have something like a snail this will consume it faster

Also having to many fish in the tank will cause so many problems as you can see....

As for everything I have read, the first thing is to get the goldfish in a tank by themselfs, the tropicals go into another one. Also goldfish should have a min of 10 gals per fish. Also filtration of 10x for the goldfish.... For the fin rot if the goldfish is in its own tank, i would treat it with a mild "PimaFix".

JMO

but that ammonia needs to get under control

[seheap]

DO NOT ADD ANYMORE WATER CLARIFIER!

Those sorts of products are dangerous and lead to many problems.

If you still have cloudy water, change the water more. Since your goldfish is in a relatively small container, you can change about 5g a day. Then leave another 5g out with crushed coral or something to raise the pH/Kh overnight and use that aged water to do another water change the next day.

[pss_gold]

Yeah, we stopped the clarifier since it wasn't doing anything meaning algae or bacteria. We got kent's super buffer and it has managed to keep the pH around 8 ish. The water also cleared a bit from a water change. She's using amquel+ to destroy the 3ppm of ammonia/chloramine that comes out of the tap.

Our water is really weird though so who knows what else is in there. I just did a "flush" water change in my tank. Empty, fill, empty, fill with treated r/o water. I would have filled and emptied another time but once I put the tap water in (didn't treat it since it would only be in there for ~20min max) it was like everyone spazzed, clamped up, and sunk to the bottom. Nugget got a concussion from running into the glass. I instantly drained it, added 4 times the amount of prime (what it takes to detox what's in our water >.<) and filled with my r/o water. And I had to go home in like two hours! I kept texting my roommate and she said everyone was swimming and what not before she left. She didn't tell me she was leaving so I'm quite worried about what I'm going back to. Our water is dangerous even for 20 minutes... I'm hoping with winter here it'll get better but for now it's worse... Probably another call to the water company is in order. Something is wrong though our water does taste better than it used to.

My friend's big male gourami Jericho just died a couple days ago. Had some kind of rash/burn looking thing after eating a super buffer particle. Allergy or something else? I wasn't there to see it myself. Gouramis needa pH of slightly acid to neutral and made the recommendation to re-home them. I think the marine aquatics place will take care of them (they're the only decent store in the area now imo...)