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Poor Walley Again


amynmitchell

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Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 10

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 8

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.5

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API

[*]Water temperature? 75

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 9 months, 40 gallon

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Two Aquaclear 50's

Shoot...the rest of the list...Three fish (the largest three inches), change 75% of the water weekly, they eat homemade gel food.

Walley just finished a round of metromeds after repeately getting stuck in the filter. He has never been quite right...he always lays right on the bottom, but now after getting out of QT and finishing his metromeds he is losing his color, he can't swim to the bottom, he can't hold up his dorsal fin at all and I haven't seen him truly eat in two days. I keep expecting him to be gone and feel like I might be being cruel by not putting him out of his misery.

You can see in the video he is still somewhat wiggly, but mostly he is vertical. When I tap on the glass near the end of the video he tries to swim down and can't.

I'm just at a loss with him.

http://s310.photobucket.com/albums/kk401/amynmitchell/?action=view&current=newfish.mp4

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I've noticed how thin he is too and really right now he looks heavy for him because he is holding water and his scales are lifting. I've had him since late March, so it wasn't shipping stress. But he is the only survivor of a terrible ulcer bug and he truly has never seemed right. I do think his body has something to do with it. His tail is so long (he was a broadtail) and his eyes are so big. His picture in my signature is his raingarden picture, but he never was an active fish. He mostly laid around, but got really excited about food. Now he really can't get down to scavange the bottom at all...if you noticed in the video he was trying to get down and popped back up.

He does the surface gulping 90% of the time. There is actually a dose of prazi in there now as a last ditch effort, but I am fairly certain it isn't flukes.

I just can't decide if I should put him down. I hate to see him struggling, but I don't forsee a good future here. I'm hoping the next week or so will give me an idea as to what to do.

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Hey amy. Sorry to see him like this. He has a little bit of the same body shape as Dr.House. She is doing very well now. Is there no way you can put him in his own tank? He still looks energetic, but he seems to be putting it all into gulping...

I do think that leaving him a while with no meds could be a good idea. He is a survivor of various meds after all. THe gulping might be a nervous tick? Or his gills could have been ruined by the meds?

Do you use the Prazi Pro? At what dose? I have been suggested by the vet here to use 2x - 3x the dose. I had some more persistent flukes on the french imported fish. But the 2x dose took care of them it seems. :) It is a little harsher on the fish however.

I think that putting him in his own - stress free tank - would be a good start. THen you can observe if he relaxes and starts acting different?

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aww poor Walley :( How did he act while in QT? maybe if he faired a bit better you could put him back :) Sorry I do not really have any other suggestions :( He is a Beauty of a Tele and I myself would hate to lose him :( I hope he feels better soon:)

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I'm wondering if maybe he's got some sort of worm infection, it would explain the buoyancy issues and the weight loss. Have you ever had him on an anti-parasite food? Jungle or something? I don't know if Prazi does internal worms as well as flukes. I know Flubendazole does, we can get it in the UK called Wormer Plus, discus keepers use it a lot. I don't know if it's worth giving something like that a shot if you haven't already. In my experience, and some other Brits I know have used it as a Prazi alternative, it's very mild but I have heard conflicting information on it. I know it never harmed my cycle and it's well reputed here. Just something to think about if you haven't tried the worms route before...

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I've had a couple instances where I feel I waited too long to euthanize a fish and that it probably suffered as a result. It's a HARD decision to make.

Walley doesn't look good at all in your video. Watching Ponyo zipping around him just emphasizes how bad Walley is. Best wishes with whatever you decide to do.

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That is sort of how I am feeling, too. He is not the same fish he was and to be honest he was never that good. I think he could hang on for a while in his own tank, but he may only be delaying the inevitable. His QT this time was a colander floating in the main tank. And I don't think he was really all that better, but he wasn't vertical. That happened after the Metro Meds and oddly enough that is when his scales started lifting. But I have never had to euthanize, though there are a few instances when I wish I did instead of waiting it out.

This poor fish has been through everything...numerous prazi doses (and that will get tapeworms), AP food, AB food, metro meds, Formalin, and of course salt. Now this has been spread out over his whole nine months because of that terrible ulcer infection that happened in my tank. He hasn't had anything until the most recent and semi-deperate round of metro meds. The gulping is new...I'm not sure what htat is about...he has never gone to the surface before, not once.

But this is a fish that never swam much and has never put on weight really since I've had him. He did used to get super excited about food. Steve did warn me that these particular fish are extremely sensitive and don't seem to be able to get through stuff other fish can. So far I will say that seems true.

I guess I am really worried that I am convincing myself he isn't well, but it sounds like everyuone else sees that his behavior isn't normal. When I am starting to contemplate euthanizing I want to make sure that it is for his own good and that he really is pretty bad off.

I have to go out of town again on Thursday for a couple of days, so I do think I will put him back in the colander just in case he passes on while I am gone. I would put him in QT seperately, but I have to set that up for my auction fish (little did I know what a terrible time to bid it probably was) so it can cycle. Though I could put him a bucket with an airstone...I have to think it through.

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I just got Walley to eat for the first time in two days by popping a peice of gel food directly in his mouth. He seemed happy to eat, but it took him almost twenty minutes to get it down and it was a very small peice.

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Luckily I am not very experienced with sick fish, but I take it as a good sign that he ate. The fact that it took him long I blame on him being weak. I cross my fingers for you guys, Walley is such a cute fish, I hope he is getting better soon!

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This morning I couldn't find Walley anywhere, which is really unusual since he couldn't get down to the bottom. Somehow he managed to get to the plant ring that Calcifer uses for resting. And maybe that is giving him a nice break, but I was finally able to see that when Calcifer is at rest he is still butt up. He got frustrated and now is in the plant ring with Walley. Obviously, for two fish to cram in the same place isn't normal, so I am starting to think that issues are happening with both of them. Unless he is at rest (which is admittedly more than I would like) Calcifer is one of the most active fish I have ever had.

I am leaning towards running a round of AP Jungle on them. It has metro and the metro meds I used weren't doing anything. My worry is that Walley isn't eating unless I put food directly in his mouth, so I will probably put him back in the colander for feeding. Does this seem like a good plan?

I'm headed out of town for two days today, so I'll feed them their gel food and then start the AP food when I get back.

With the new fish coming my QT is going to be tied up which is really frustrating. I didn't know I was going to be looking at so many problems.

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As long as Walley lets me I'll keep getting food in him. It is hard to tell because he is under that plant, but his scales are lifting a bit more. I will try to get a video of Calcifer with him and shee what you guys think. Well, I'll be darned. Just as I was typing that Walley came out and is back to being vertical. His scales are definately lifting more...not full blown drospy, but pretty prickly. I wonder if I should try the AP food and see how that goes. He is getting completely knocked around by any bit of current in the tank.

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aww :( Amy can you get another video up for us maybe??I think if you can separate him and get him started on the ap food asap might be the best plan maybe if he gets some food in him he'll get some of his strength back and be able to fight off what ever is bothering him ...I hope you caught this in time and it doesn't effect calcifer ;(

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Okay, here is another video. I wish the prickliness would show up, but I have a pretty crappy digital camera.

First I want to show what Calcifer does 50% of the time. This is his special plant that he rests under. I think it keeps him from popping butt up. In the very beginning you can see him under there. The minute I open the lid of the tank he thinks he is going to be fed so he comes flying out and swims fine like nothing is wrong, so I'm not sure if I should be worried and run him on AP food as well.

Then you can see Walley in the video who at least isn't permantly at the surface, but the way he is near the end is the way he is 90% of the time. The rest of the time he is being knocked around by the filter. He did eat a peice of food, but it has been 15 minutes and he is still working on getting it down.

What do you guys think?

http://s310.photobucket.com/albums/kk401/amynmitchell/?action=view&current=newfish072.mp4

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I don't think Calcifer is anything to worry about, Rusty does that for weeks at a time and has done since I got her a year ago, she rests most when she's growing and pops out at top speed if she thinks there is food, if you've not seen other symptoms keep an eye out for a growth spurt and try not to worry about him.

Walley does not look good...I have only seen that body-swimming-fins-not thing once, and that was in Red after 4 weeks of full-blown dropsy. I really don't know what to suggest on that unless you have relatively high current and his fins are just too long for him to be able to control properly so he's holding them in to rest them, but it doesn't look like this is the case :( I think the AP food sounds good, but the gelfood might be better as it's likely to be more nutritious, what do you put in it? Something high in protein might really help him bulk up...

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The only thing I can think of amy is current. Did you set everything up with like spray bars or something to really minimize it? I think that is why they seem to have issues. Wally might just be exhausted from having fought it the longest?

I really don't have anything better to suggest... :(

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I don't feel in any way qualified to help with diagnosing, but I just wanted to post because is occurred to me that he may have started acting differently/worse around the same time you took out the canister filter? Or was he already in the colander by then? I don't know what exactly that might have changed, but just wanted to throw it out there. I hope he can hang in there.

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