Help! Came Home To Dying Esme :(

[kshepherd87]

I just got home to find Esme floating on her side She's pretty much lifeless but occasionally tries to swim on her side. The only thing I have done differently is using Prime for the first time yesterday - could this have reacted with her? I used it in my other QT tank and those fish are fine.

Here are the tank stats:

Ammonia: 0.25 (though I'm just doing a big water change)

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: Between 0 and 5

Tank size: 12 gallons - been running for 1.5 weeks

Water changes: 50 % daily, ammonia has never exceeded 0.25

Non meds at all in the water, just Prime

Let me know if you need any more stats are needed, I'm rushing about doing a big water change while writing this. I'm going to use Stress Coat with the water change in case Prime is the culprit.

Esme was completely fine this morning, ate her breakfast as usual and was happy and lively at the front of the tank. What can I do?????

Here she is :( As you can possibly see her black fins have totally faded, what could be causing this? She was fine this morning :(

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

any weird redness on her tummy?

yes water change, make sure it is temp and pH matched

[kshepherd87]

Esme is now just twitching - is this her doing it or is her body just shutting down? She isn't moving her mouth or gills anymore

Her belly is slightly red, more light pink than red - is there anything I can do?

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

Redness on the tummy can come from internal bleeding... I think all you can do now is try and give her quiet and good water...

[kshepherd87]

Thanks so much for your help. I'm not sure if Esme is still with us or not She hasn't moved her gills in a long time now. Do you know what could cause internal bleeding? I'm really scared for my other 2 now

My poor baby, she was fine this morning

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

I hope she can pull through.

Did you just get her? I don't know what can cause it. But I lost a few fish like this in the beginning. Do you have gravel or ornaments?

[kshepherd87]

Thanks hun - I got her just over a week ago from my LFS. Her tank has only a few marbles, a filter, heater and airstone so nothing she could easily injure herself on.

I think she's gone

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

Oh I am so sorry... She probably had something internal going on

[devilduck]

I'm so sorry to read this Kymie I really don't think the Prime's the culprit, I've been using it a while now... did you do anything else different? Leave the filter off maybe or something? I can't believe how fast this was, which makes me think it was a sudden external influence rather than a cultivating internal problem. None of your fish stuff's been exposed to anything? Someone used your bucket for washing the car? Pipette was left in a puddle of something? I really have no idea but it's so fast the only thing I can think of is poisoning of some sort. None of your decorations are new within the last few days or anything? It might also be worth checking your tap water...ours randomly started coming through at 1ppm ammonia at one point after the water company did a check and we lost 2 fish in 2 days not realising, it's possible the 0.25 was after the filter had begun to process the tap water rubbish. It still shouldn't have been this fast but check it anyway to be sure.

I'm so so sorry this has happened, it's even worse when you can't tell what caused it

[shellbell4ever]

Oh Kymie I am so sorry to hear this poor little Esme:( I do hope you find out what happened It's bothersome when it happens so sudden and for no apparent reason but it does happen Check your tap conditions just to be sure i also do not think it's the prime but one never knows more than likely something was wrong with her and you just didn't know it your in my thoughts

[kshepherd87]

Thanks Devilduck. As far as I know the Prime was the only change I made - the decorations (only a few marbles) remained the same, the buckets and siphon were kept well out of the way and haven't been used for anything else (my OH knows better!), she was on the same food (she had a pea on Saturday and Saki Hikari the rest of the time), no meds were in the tank and a lid was on the whole time. I'm just a bit confused really, it happened so quick, her fins went from black to grey in the course of a day and she was dead within an hour of me getting home from work

Oh wow, I didn't realise tap water could change like that What did you do? Did the water company investigate? I'm going to check my tap water levels later before I do a water change for my remaining 2. I'm scared for them now, do you think anything could have been passed? I used the same siphon and buckets for both tanks but everything else was separate. EVERYTHING is currently soaking in PP solution in the new tank and I'll PP my buckets in a minute too.

Keeping goldfish is so trying sometimes, no matter what I do my fish seem to get sick and die

[kshepherd87]

Oh Kymie I am so sorry to hear this poor little Esme:( I do hope you find out what happened It's bothersome when it happens so sudden and for no apparent reason but it does happen Check your tap conditions just to be sure i also do not think it's the prime but one never knows more than likely something was wrong with her and you just didn't know it your in my thoughts

Thanks Shellbell, that's really sweet of you. It's so frustrating not knowing why, I guess I'll never know though I'm just going to have to be extra vigilant of my other 2 fish in QT now (thankfully in their own tub). Maybe as my other 2 fish came from a breeder rather than a pet shop they'll have a better chance of being healthy.

[devilduck]

Neither did we....and as we hadn't checked the water when we moved in (naively assuming that as we only moved an hour away it would be fine) we couldn't prove it wasn't like that before other than that my fish were ok and they hadn't had a water change immediately after the water company finished their checks whereas Stu's pearlscales had. When the tapwater was at 0ppm a few weeks later after we'd setup an aging tank and extra filters we can only assume it was related to the water company. Stu checks the water before he does water changes now so he knows if he has to filter it or not, we were using bottled water for a while when we were setting up the extra tank and seeding the filters and now it seems we don't need them but better safe than sorry. I check my tap water all the time anyway because the pH crashes off to nothing really fast so I have to age it anyway, but I've also learned the hard way how quickly the parameters can change. The water company came around during the day when I happened to be off otherwise we'd never have known they'd been messing with things, and with Stu working full time and me at uni we can't tell if/when it will happen again. If your pH swung at the same time as an ammonia spike in the tap water it could have made it more toxic than usual but that can't be assumed until you've checked your water, I might be barking up completely the wrong tree!

I personally doubt anything got passed over, as my inclination is that Esme was a poisoning rather than a bacterial infection (I don't know which is worse...) but keep a close eye on your new guys obviously. I've not seen bacterial infections take a fish so fast personally but it doesn't mean it can't happen, fortunately I've not had to deal with every disaster that can happen in fishkeeping and I'd prefer to keep it that way!

[kshepherd87]

Ok so I tested my tap water twice and it is currently 0.25 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates - is it common to have ammonia in tap water?? Also, my other 2 fish in QT have 0.25 ammonia tonight so I guess there's no point me replacing 0.25 ammonia with more 0.25 ammonia Could I maybe add some Prime to get rid of this for now? I'll keep testing my tap water daily but what should I do if it stays at 0.25 ammonia - in a cycled tank I guess it wouldn't be an issue but for my uncycled QT will it be ok to use? Thanks Devilduck for bringing this to my attention!

Also, I just broke down Esme's tank and found some seriously icky white goopy stuff all over the filter - what the heck is this??

Has anyone had this before? It freaked me out a little

Right now pretty much every piece of fish equipment I own is soaking in PP!

[Rebecca Hampshire]

Oh Kymie, I am so sorry! You are not having much luck at the min, thinking of you.

Esme

Regarding your new fish I think I would be inclined to throw in some more prime, but don't listen to me. Wait till someone better qualified comes a long! I really hope they will be ok. STUPID water people! I wonder if thats what happened to your other fishy!

[Lola_Granola]

Being a novice myself, I have no expertise in this area, but I do have virtual hugs! So, so sorry to hear about sweet little Esme.

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

That is why I always check my filters... Could it be excess biofilm?

[Choochoo]

Im very sorry to hear about Esme Kymie .You are a great Goldfish Mommy , and You gave Him a great life for the time that He was with You .

I know how horrible it feels when We try our best and still lose them , sometimes it is out of Our hands.

You know You did all You could for Him

Your water parameters look fine . Im assuming Your city adds Chloramines ,so the .25 ammonia You are seeing is normal

Prime will bind the ammonia for 48 hours ,and it will still show when tested ,until a cycled filter converts it to nitrites.

Ammonia is more toxic at higher temperature and higher PH ,so I dont think Your issue was ammonia toxicity , unless Your PH was elevated.

I cant see the goop in the filter media , but if it looks abnormal , Maybe something to look into.

[amynmitchell]

Wow. That is awful. Fish can be very exhuasting and it is so difficult to know what happens sometimes to cause these things.

[kshepherd87]

Thanks so much everyone for your kind words I agree, fish can be very very exhausting at times!

My tap and tank water is a pretty stable ph of 8.2 - could my high ph be causing problems? That filter goop is still baffling me My poor little Esme

[Choochoo]

Thanks so much everyone for your kind words I agree, fish can be very very exhausting at times!

My tap and tank water is a pretty stable ph of 8.2 - could my high ph be causing problems? That filter goop is still baffling me My poor little Esme

If Your temperature is between 20 to 25 deg , Your getting close to being toxic.

But You dont have to worry if You use Prime because it will bind the ammonia for 48 hours.

You will have to do water changes at least every 2 days until Your filter is cycled

Here is a chart from a Famous Author

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/35322-ammonia-toxicity/

[devilduck]

Unfortunately 0.25 ammonia is common in the tapwater here, I've only been in one place where I didn't have it and I move a lot. The Prime will bind it until the filter deals with it, and I've never had any problems because of it. No idea on the filter media Sorry Check the filter media on the other tank just to be sure it's not there too. I hope your other fish are ok

[kshepherd87]

Thanks guys I can't believe ammonia in tap water is so common here My last house was 0, 0, 0, I guess I was pretty lucky there. Should I try and get zeolite for my QT tub? How would I use this, does it go in the filter or in a stocking in the tub? Or is Prime better? I'll keep doing my daily water changes and adding Prime - I'm really really glad my LFS has started stocking it.

Esme's tank was at a constant 22 degrees celcius

[Choochoo]

Thanks guys I can't believe ammonia in tap water is so common here My last house was 0, 0, 0, I guess I was pretty lucky there. Should I try and get zeolite for my QT tub? How would I use this, does it go in the filter or in a stocking in the tub? Or is Prime better? I'll keep doing my daily water changes and adding Prime - I'm really really glad my LFS has started stocking it.

Esme's tank was at a constant 22 degrees celcius

Zeolite works , and if You do use it , place it in the filter so it will get water circulation over it. Place it in a mesh bag or stocking.

But You dont really need it because Your using Prime , and You are better off doing water changes anyway because You are cycling with fish in the tank. Later on in the cycle , Your going to have to deal with Nitrites and Nitrates also , so the more reason to do water changes.

[kshepherd87]

Thanks Garibaldi I was thinking of possibly using zeolite as I'll be doing a fishless cycle in my main tank so a cycle isn't essential in the QT tub - that's if I can find pure ammonia somewhere here though