Fluke Treatment? Please Help

[kazaba]

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? .25

[*]Nitrite Level? slight (less than .25, but greater than 0)

[*]Nitrate level? 0

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.6

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.6

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

[*]Water temperature? 70F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 40 gallon long, 20 days

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Marineland Penguin 350

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? I change the water anytime I see the ammonia level get greater than .25, the tank is still cycling. I change as much as I need to get the level closer to zero. Now that nitrites are becoming detectable, I will do the same for them.

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? Two fish (oranda and ryukin) oranda = 3 1/2 inches, ryukin = 2 1/2 inches

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? I use API stress coat + to treat new water

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? I feed them Pro Gold twice a day, and they get a pea once a week, I also feed them each 2-3 freeze dried Omega One blood worms every day.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? no

[*]Any medications added to the tank? Tetra Parasite Guard (tablets)

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? some missing scales on the oranda

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? darting, fin flicking, yawning, bottom sitting

So, I decided my goldfish had flukes after seeing them twitch their fins a lot and yawn more than every once in a while. Also, my oranda would suddenly dart around the tank erratically as if something was irritating him. He's also missing a few scales along his sides, which I'm thinking is from rubbing against the gravel to get relief. I just treated the tank with the tetra parasite guard tablets, and I dissolved them in some tank water first, as the directions recommended. But, it looks like my oranda is getting even worse! He darts around the tank much more erratically than before, it looks like he's possessed. It scared me, to say the least. And then he bottom sits. Then he starts darting all over the place again and flashing against the gravel. Now he's sitting in the corner on the bottom again

Is this behavior associated with the flukes being eradicated, or should I be concerned?

Thanks

[npila1]

Hi Kailey, my goldfish had flukes too and I have been treating them with prazi. They did get worse at first and I was very worried but everyone here on kokos told me that it's normal; they get worse before they get better. However, I don't know how effective the medication you are using is. Maybe someone else can comment on that, but as far as I know prazi is always highly recommended for treatment of flukes. I hope your goldies will feel better soon!

[Sakura]

I think this behavior is definitely because the medication is too harsh, and also the presence of ammonia and nitrite in the water is making it worse. You need to do a huge water change with temp and pH matched water ASAP! I had a fish acting like what you describe once because I was using a similar medication in water that had trace ammonia showing up. She died very quickly- within 10 minutes. So get that medication out asap, and also keep the ammonia and nitrite below .25 at all times.

If you want to treat for flukes, Prazi (also sold as PraziPro) is much gentler and can typically be used in water that is showing trace ammonia and nitrite. The medication you're using now cannot be used unless ammonia and nitrite are consistently zero.

[Hidr]

Not sure about the flukes but what I do see is you need to do lots of water changes. You need to try keep to keep the Ammonia Level at 0. I would do more and larger water changes. Cycling a tank with fish might be why the fish are acting strange. Can you get anything to help your cycle along?

Someone that has dealt with flukes might have better advice then I do for you.

[kazaba]

Oh shoot I feel so bad.. I have read about the PraziPro but I haven't been able to find it at any of the local pet stores. So I bought the Parasite Guard because it had praziquantel in the ingredients and said it would treat flukes...

Getting the replacement water ready now... thanks for the quick responses!

PS - he's looking way better now, hopefully that's a good sign..

[Cynders]

Yes, you can get prazipro online. Never treat with harsh medications if you can help it. Usually these meds do more harm than good. You'll want a medication that isn't mixed with tons of others.

[Sakura]

Don't feel bad, you're doing your best and that's what matters! I hope your fish feels better soon.

[kazaba]

Okay, just did an 80% water change, and ammonia and nitrite levels are both at zero

Plus, both fish are acting fine now, and begging for food as usual... they tried to nibble at my fingers while I was getting the water samples for testing.

So I guess I'll just have to wait a bit for the fluke treatment.. is it something that I can put off for a while? I don't want to stress them out again.

Thanks again!

[Cynders]

Yes, If they're exhibiting good behavior the treatment can wait so you can give them some downtime and get a chance to get prazipro.

[Sakura]

Good! I'm glad they're acting so much better. A "yawn" and some surface gulping here and there is expected during the cycling of a tank, so if those are the only symptoms you observe, definitely hold off on the Prazi treatment. The ammonia and nitrite cause them to do these things. However, if you see a lot of "flashing", excessive slime coat on the fish, or erratic swimming, then you will need to do the Prazi sooner. I think you should order it now, if you can, so you have it on hand.

[Hidr]

So glad they are doing better. Keep up the larger water changes. Hopefully that is all they need. But I agree with Sakura you should go ahead and get some prazi since you have to order it.

[kazaba]

Okay, I will order the PraziPro just in case. I'll wait for the tank to finish cycling so I can see if it really is a fluke problem or not (hopefully it won't take much longer?). I have not actually ever witnessed the fish flash against the gravel, aside from when the oranda did it after I added that medication. And I watch them a lot, so I think I would have seen it.

Just the yawning and the fins flicking sometimes. I guess we'll see. Thanks for your help everyone

[kazaba]

scratch that.. just saw him flash against the gravel and dart around like crazy... poor guy

[Sakura]

Oh that's a bummer I have used PraziPro before in tanks that are showing slight ammonia. I think it should be fine to use as long as you are super careful about not letting the ammonia and nitrite climb above .25. I was able to find small bottles of PraziPro at the smaller, locally owned fish stores near me. You may have some stores like that that might sell it. Ordering it online will definitely be cheaper, but it will take longer.

I'd say you should look into getting the Prazi asap, but still keep an eye on the fish before using it just yet. It could be that he's still just feeling a bit irritated from earlier.

[kazaba]

Thanks for all your advice, Sakura, I will definitely order it online as I have already been to 3 different stores and none of them have had it. At least he's not bottom sitting anymore..

But there is something else I have just noticed about the tank, and I can't believe I didn't notice it before. I guess I might have just been distracted by the fish. It looks like there may be algae or something growing on the glass? But it's not green at all. Here are some pictures:

In that last picture you can kind of see where the snail has been munching along the glass in a zig-zag sort of motion. Is this growth/residue going to be a problem? The tank gets no direct sunlight, in fact, the blinds on the windows in my room are always shut. And I maybe have the light on for 8-10 hours a day, sometimes even less. Also I only have a light on one side of the tank at the moment. The bulb is 15W. Thanks, and sorry this is a little off topic.

[Sakura]

Okay, so it looks like a thin white-ish film, right? This is referred to commonly as biofilm. Biofilm Wikipedia Link It's not harmful at all, your snail is probably enjoying eating it! Whenever I get this on my tanks, I just wipe it off during the weekly water change because I don't like how it looks.

Or if it's brown in color, then it's diatoms. These are generally not harmful either, but I don't like to let it build up too much. I have a suspicion (though not founded on facts) that they might make a good breeding ground for bad bacteria, so I always wipe these away as soon as I can. That's just me though.

[kazaba]

Yes, it is white and easily wiped off. That's neat.. I read on a different site that these microbes somehow participate in the nitrogen cycle? Interesting.. maybe I should leave little areas of them, haha! Also, the fish are doing great this morning, begging for breakfast and playing follow the leader as usual. Thanks again!

[Helen]

we don't have the typical prazi here in our stores either.. but what we do have is this.. see if your LFS has this to offer.. i guess you can call them rather than making a visit.. this has prazi in it and is very effective:

hope you see some improvements soon