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Bullying?


BriansMom

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Is there any good topics on here about bullies?

I have a lion head, toby, who is getting picked on a little by my oranda, brian, who is a third of his size! I think that's why toby has been sitting at the bottom lately because there isn't any other explanation. When toby is laying on the bottom, brian will come over and nip at his body a few times and it makes me feel so bad for him. Does it bother him and that's why he's been so sad at the bottom? Or could he easily defend himself because he is triple the size?

Brian has been with me for 6 months but he was added to a bigger tank a few days before toby so its not like its "his tank" and its two little goldies in a 50g tank so I don't think they don't have enough room. Is it because brian has always been alone? Brian never chases toby though, just nips at him when he isn't moving. Its hard to know because I think he likes toby's company at the same time.

Toby also has red, bloody marks on his tail fin. Pretty sure injury and not infection, can that be caused from bullying? They are pretty small, and barely noticeable until I did some careful looking at him.

Any suggestions would help me so much.... I guess divider is my only option if there isn't a solution :(

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How often do you do water changes? How long has the new bigger tank been set up?. Sounds to me like one of them is sick and yes other fish well pick on a sick fish. I would do a water change now and test the water.

I am going to move this to a better place so we can figure out what is wrong.

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Dang it. I was leaning towards him being sick then I wondered about the bullying. I can't tell what he is sick with though.

I've been doing 25 percent water changes twice a week. The tank has been set up a little longer than a month. I have been keeping an eye on the levels of water but everything has been ok, almost perfect most times so I think when I set it up with old gravel, some tank water and the old filter and new filter... It didn't really need to cycle much since I haven't seen any ammonia or nitri/ate. But still have been testing daily to be safe. (Drops)

I think its flukes... They both were yawning, one I noticed a few minutes before I put him in his new tank and the other one I bought I think had it before I put him in so I started prazi and noticed it working great in less than a week. And have added it a few times since and now the only thing I've seen since is toby hanging out on the bottom the past few days. Swims around a little bit but not much and even was uninterested in food when I fed them an hour ago. :( idk what to do... If I've been using prazi, shouldn't he be getting better and not worse? Anything else it could be?

My boyfriend borrowed my test kit and is bringing it over soon so ill do some testing.

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I would do larger water changes till things get better. I would also do one now. See if that perks him up.

The way I understand flucks It takes like 3 or 4 treatments to get them all.... You treat a week wait two weeks treat again? Maybe someone that has dealt with them well be on soon with more info on that. Or you could find some of the old post one them.

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Here is the way most people here treat for flukes:

Day 1 -- remove carbon, perform water change with vacuuming, and add Prazi to tank

Day 2 -- add Prazi

Day 3 -- do nothing

Day 4 -- do nothing

Day 5 -- do nothing

Day 6 -- add Prazi

Day 7 -- add Prazi

Day 8 -- normal partial water change with vacuuming

Day 14 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 21 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 28 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 35 - normal partial water change, add carbon, treatment is complete

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hi briansmom.. did you manage to do the water changes? what about the prazi for the possible flukes? can you update us on this..

and if you did the water change, how much of it did you change.. do you have gravel on the bottom? and if you do, do you siphon it clean with every water change?

if you did do the water change, what did you put back into the water? dechlorinator etc.... please advise..

is toby eating? like a feeding time, does he come for food? what do you feed them, and how often do you feed?

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Sorry to not include much, I was just really nervous and freaking out! I checked on him twice in the middle of the night and he was stilling hiding behind the plant. But he is swimming around now eating!

I did a 25 percent change before youy guys advised me and then did another 50 percent last night when I got home and he was still sick. I added prime like usual, 2.5 caps of clarity and redosed prazi. I have been doing prazi and was on maybe my 3rd week and wasn't quite there to do it again so I did it again because I was really nervous and the water changes.

Right now I've been feeding them very tiny sinking pellets by omega one three times a day. I want to use hikari pellets but he never would go to the top so hed never eat and brian would eat too much. I've been wanting to try again though soon. I saw him poop last night so I can rule out constipation. He didn't eat two feedings I did and then since I wrote back on here, he finally ate just now and still hasn't gone back to sulking!

But he has sulked for most of the night and yesterday and was breathing very heavy. Swam around once but didn't comfort me because it was really fast and almost seizure like and went right back to sulking and breathing heavy :(

Sorry to not include much, I was just really nervous and freaking out! I checked on him twice in the middle of the night and he was stilling hiding behind the plant. But he is swimming around now eating!

I did a 25 percent change before youy guys advised me and then did another 50 percent last night when I got home and he was still sick. I added prime like usual, 2.5 caps of clarity and redosed prazi. I have been doing prazi and was on maybe my 3rd week and wasn't quite there to do it again so I did it again because I was really nervous and the water changes.

Right now I've been feeding them very tiny sinking pellets by omega one three times a day. I want to use hikari pellets but he never would go to the top so hed never eat and brian would eat too much. I've been wanting to try again though soon. I saw him poop last night so I can rule out constipation. He didn't eat two feedings I did and then since I wrote back on here, he finally ate just now and still hasn't gone back to sulking!

But he has sulked for most of the night and yesterday and was breathing very heavy. Swam around once but didn't comfort me because it was really fast and almost seizure like and went right back to sulking and breathing heavy :(

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Sorry to pest, I just want to know if what is going on is normal.

Its probably been a week since he has been on the bottom hiding 99% of the time. Yesterday he didn't refuse to eat finally but didnt eat much because he seemed tired. He would stop and respirate pretty rapidly and eventually would go back in hiding until the next time I fed him. He is either breathing very hard or almost not at all? I try to look at his gills but the wen or whatever it is is pretty thick over top the gills.

I understand they look worse before they get better... but at what point do they usually get better? I started treatment maybe 3 weeks ago and the past week he has been acting really off.

I need help knowing what to do with salt because I finally understand the ratio/percentage but I don't know how much more to do since I started not knowing. I probably have 12-15 tablespoons in there now and its a 50g tank? How much more should I add and and should I do it in increments? Is API salt an ok one to use?

Anything else I can do to help him until the next prazi dose (in 3 days)?

Thanks so much!

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Is the little one still pestering him? I would remove the weak fish so he can recover. Put him in a little hospital tank if you have one. I have 2 fish who cannot stand each other for now :( The bullied one will go and bottom sit with clamped fins as soon as the other one is put in the same tank as him. THen as soon as the bully is taken out he is totally fine again.

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Is the little one still pestering him? I would remove the weak fish so he can recover. Put him in a little hospital tank if you have one. I have 2 fish who cannot stand each other for now :( The bullied one will go and bottom sit with clamped fins as soon as the other one is put in the same tank as him. THen as soon as the bully is taken out he is totally fine again.

Ok thanks for the help! Yes he is still kinda picking on him so I would love to try to do this! Just a couple questions.

I have a 10g I could put him in but there is no water in it.... Will that be ok for the amount he is in there for as long as I could the water perfect and maybe add some BB? Will he be too big for the 10g? Hes maybe 3-4 inches... Should I treat both tanks since the little one has had flukes a bit too (i think)?

And you said when you take your little trouble maker out, he is fine again.... Do I take mine out at some point? How long does it keep him away from othe other one?

Do you think it hurts Toby when Brian nibbles at his side a few times or just irritating since he is so little compared to him? I wish he would defend himself because he could kick his butt!!!!

I appreciate all the help from you guys, since I am kinda new to this! :wall

Off topic... Any way to change my user name? Haha

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The bully is a smaller guy?

What I did (since I am sure my fish are both healthy), I removed the bully. I am leaving him out for about 2 weeks and hopefully this is enough time for the weaker guy to make the tank 'his home' so when I reintroduce the bully it should work (hopefully).

If the bully is smaller and you feel that Toby is healthy and doesn't need 'further care', you can try and take out the bully instead of him. 10gal should be okey. Add a filter with the BBs and just keep an eye on the params :)

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Hmm, Its hard to know if I consider Toby healthy enough but I'll probably take him out to "hospitalize" him just to be safe. When I went home for lunch he was still sitting in his corner but he had the will to at least acknowledge me and pick his head up but all of yesterday he moved around awhile after feeding time. I think when I feed him when I get home, he will eat. I do think he is getting better but still not good enough to hospitalize him I guess. How much salt should I use when I fill up the 10g?

And yes, my little one is the bully. I was hoping the week alone in the new tank before I got Toby wouldn't have given him that attitude because when I first got him, he got along with his brother who was sooo dang little and ended up not making it and he's been alone since so I guess he's just used to being spoiled alone. Dang.

Then once Toby is better, should I put him back in the 50g, refill the 10g and put Brian in there for 2 weeks? Because I would love to set him straight... Everytime I see him right before he's gonna nibble him, I march to the tank and point at him and say no, he swims away :doh11:

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Then once Toby is better, should I put him back in the 50g, refill the 10g and put Brian in there for 2 weeks? Because I would love to set him straight... Everytime I see him right before he's gonna nibble him, I march to the tank and point at him and say no, he swims away

yea I think that is a good idea.

How much salt should I use when I fill up the 10g?

just make sure it is the same concentration as in the main tank. so Toby doesn't get shocked :)same for temp and pH.

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ok thanks!

Toby was more active last night than he has been in awhile! I did get the 10g going but I wanted to wait till morning to put him in there and this morning he was actually MOVING AROUND! So I figured I would just leave him and see how he is doing after work (done in a few minutes) to determine. I did another big water change, added more salt, another air stone and more prazi before bed...... maybe that boosted his progress!

If he is doing good still when I get home, maybe I will just wait a day and see and if he continues the progress, I'll put Brian in the small tank.

One problem though, I am going out of town to get PraziPro and I've been calling everywhere and no one carries it! I don't know if I wanna order and wait for it. What do you think?

Otherwise one store told me they have had good luck with the API general cure...... any reviews on that? As safe as prazipro? Ugh, what a pain!!!

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Do not use API general cure. It is probably harsher on the fish and probably has a mix of medications. I would order from That Fish Place or from Doctors Foster and Smith Aquatics. They ship quickly and have a lot of great stuff for cheap. Usually prazi online is cheaper than that of regular pet stores.

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Ugh, I swear this will never end and it makes me almost wonder if it is flukes but there really isnt anything else it could be. And when I went home at lunch, Brian was lying right next to Toby. I hope he was just hanging out or I'll be so frustrated with 2 sick ones. I'm starting to really worry though because I dont see MUCH improvement and its been a few weeks. Is there ANYTHING else I can do? Should I prazi more than the typical schedule?

Here are some videos.

Video 1 is RIGHT after he ate so he's out and about and seems good then video two is literally maybe a minute after the first video. There has been a dark spot on his head since I got him that you can see, just making sure that is just part of him and not something wrong too. Anyways, maybe a video will help me heal my poor baby :(

th_MVI_3392-1.jpg

th_Toby.jpg

Edited by BriansMom
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I wouldn't do more than the regular prazi treatment. Then you won't be killing anything since the fluke eggs won't have time to hatch at all.

His breathing looks very labored in the second video :( What are your water params? It also looks like he was flashing on the ornament.

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I've kept the params perfect since I saw the first symptom about 3-4 weeks ago and test daily. That's' why I'm so frustrated because its out of my control. Sometimes I wish I didn't get into the world of fish because its so heartbreaking and stressful :(

He has been doing that labored breathing for the past few weeks for a few minutes every day. Otherwise he'd laying there as if not breathing at all. I am always so scared to wake up or come home from work to see what I will find.

I'm just so exhausted and don't know what to do, he is maybe a liiitle more active than a couple days ago. But I'm still so worried. Is there anything else I can do for him? I forgot to mention his coloring towords his belly might have lightened slightly. Any help at all will help more than you know!

Ill test water again tomorrow and let u guys know. I just did a 50 percent change so it probably wouldn't be accurate now. Maybe I should take a pic of my tank and filter, maybe I am doing something wrong...

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I forgot to add that I'm pretty confident I didn't overfeed, the little one who's 1/3 the size gets most of it anyway. Sometimes I wonder if he gets enough... Plus they are realllly small pellets but the next size up got stuck in brians mouth last month and to nervous to try again!

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