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Guest clumsymumsy

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Guest clumsymumsy

Hi everyone, i hope you can help a gal out!

I have a 48L Interpet fish box with a PF1 power filter.

I have two goldies, one a common..won from a fair,named George (my son's choice!lol) and the other is a Ryukin named Big Red.I also have 5 mountain cloud minnows.

We've had them since the beginning of Sept and i could do with some advice please.

Big Red has been a bit floaty and the goldies both had solid waste trailing behind them,so i've been administering Interpet swimbladder treatment.

I removed the Carbon filter and put in 230g API salt over 2 days with 2 of the four swimbladder doses being done so far out of the four required.

The water in the tank is now very cloudy and i'm wondering how long after the treatment has ended can i do a partial water change.

I've been doing 25-50% water change a week and cleaning the glass with a algae scraper. I use Tetra Aquasafe and Interpet Ammonia Remover for the water as i find the amm levels always rise after the water change.

I also wash the filter media in aquarium water once a week and clean the gravel as i siphon out the water. I also use Filter start to help with the bacteria levels in the filter whenever reading levels rise.

I started the treatment on Sunday 24th and took test levels readings on the Mon 25th which were;

nitrate- 5ppm

nitrite-0.25ppm

amm- 0ppm

p.h-7.6

temp 70f

I use API test kit for these readings, and then i took readings again today which were;

nitrate-5ppm

nitrite-2.0ppm

amm- 0.50ppm

p.h-7.6

temp 70f

Is this normal? Should i do anything else other than add Ammonia Remover to the water (added to 1/2L first and then put in)

I don't know what to do about the nitrite levels because i've added salt to the tank. Big Red does seem to be getting better, not so floaty now and George and the minnows seem fine.

I hope this doesn't make me sound stupid, i'm trying my best, so would appreciate all and any help you can give me. thanks guys xx

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  • Regular Member

What type of food?

I don't think you need to rinse the filter media every week unless you are having less water flow/blockage.

More comments coming soon I am sure.

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Are you sure your Nitrite is 2? If so-you need to get it down to 0 w/ a BIG w/c(w/ temp and Ph matched water)-ASAP ! I would do a 50% first,then test again,and if it's still high-do another 50%. Nitrite is toxic to fish. Is this a new tank,and how big is it?

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Hello and welcome to Koko's!

First of all, the tank for the fish is too small. Don't feel bad, almost all of us started out with too little room for our goldfish :)

A single tailed goldfish, like a common, comet and shubunkin, require at least 80 liter EACH. Fancy tails at least 40 liter each, but in any case a tank should never be smaller than 80 liter, even for only one fancy, so they have enough room to grow.

So this means that you should have at least a 120 liter tank for these two fish, the minnows not even included. The tank you currently have is probably fine for the minnows themselves.

With the tank being too small, this is most likely also the reason for the bad water quality. Nitrite is toxic to fish and should always be at 0, same with ammonia. Nitrate can be up to 40ppm without stressing the fish, but the lower, the better.

I would recommend a big water change of 75% immediately to get the toxic stuff out of the water! Also until you have a larger tank, keep doing 75% water changes at least twice a week to keep the water params good for the fish

I suppose the tank has not been cycled before you added the fish, right? You might want to read about the nitrogen cycle in fish tanks to understand better what all is going on in there :)http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html

The solid waste trailing behind them might be a sign of congestion due to overfeeding. Goldfish need way less food than we think, although they always seem hungry. Also, what are you feeding them? Flake food can make the fish floaty. Since they eat it off the water surface they swallow air, which can make them floaty and even lead to swim bladder disorders. Slow sinking pellets that are pre-soaked should be preferred over flakes.

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Guest clumsymumsy

thanks guys, i would normally do a large water change, but was unsure to to the fact that i'd put in the swimbladder treatment and salt.

my water levels normally have been fine..amm-0 and nitrite-0 and all other params within limits.

i thought maybe it was due to the carbon being out of the tank and because of the treatment that was in the tank.

can i still do a large water change to bring down my nitrite levels, without it affecting the swimbladder treatment being in the water? xx

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Is the fish constantly floaty? How floaty is he, and since when? Can he get down to the bottom of the tank at all or is he constantly hovering at the surface? Has there ever been air trapped in his poop? Even if not actually visible, did you notice poop that was floating or hovering instead of sinking?

If it is only a light case of being floaty, you might be able to treat it with an adjustment to their diet. No food for a couple days (goldfish can easily go a full week without food without having problems), and then peeled, steamed peas. No canned peas, but the frozen kind! I usually get a few peas out of the bag, put them on a small plate or bowl and microwave them for a few seconds until they are defrosted and cooked. Take the peel off, squish the peas a bit and feed it to the fish, this will clean out their digestive tract and might even get rid of that fish's floatyness, if food is what caused it. :)

Don't worry about the medicine for now, just change the water asap. Bad water quality might add to the floatyness and stresses the fish out additionally.

If it is a bad case of being floaty that requires medicine, you can always re-add it!

Edited by Oerba Yun Fang
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Is the fish constantly floaty? How floaty is he, and since when? Can he get down to the bottom of the tank at all or is he constantly hovering at the surface? Has there ever been air trapped in his poop? Even if not actually visible, did you notice poop that was floating or hovering instead of sinking?

If it is only a light case of being floaty, you might be able to treat it with an adjustment to their diet. No food for a couple days (goldfish can easily go a full week without food without having problems), and then peeled, steamed peas. No canned peas, but the frozen kind! I usually get a few peas out of the bag, put them on a small plate or bowl and microwave them for a few seconds until they are defrosted and cooked. Take the peel off, squish the peas a bit and feed it to the fish, this will clean out their digestive tract and might even get rid of that fish's floatyness, if food is what caused it. :)

Don't worry about the medicine for now, just change the water asap. Bad water quality might add to the floatyness and stresses the fish out additionally.

If it is a bad case of being floaty that requires medicine, you can always re-add it!

I would add to make sure there is no saltexactly.gif

Is the fish constantly floaty? How floaty is he, and since when? Can he get down to the bottom of the tank at all or is he constantly hovering at the surface? Has there ever been air trapped in his poop? Even if not actually visible, did you notice poop that was floating or hovering instead of sinking?

If it is only a light case of being floaty, you might be able to treat it with an adjustment to their diet. No food for a couple days (goldfish can easily go a full week without food without having problems), and then peeled, steamed peas. No canned peas, but the frozen kind! I usually get a few peas out of the bag, put them on a small plate or bowl and microwave them for a few seconds until they are defrosted and cooked. Take the peel off, squish the peas a bit and feed it to the fish, this will clean out their digestive tract and might even get rid of that fish's floatyness, if food is what caused it. :)

Don't worry about the medicine for now, just change the water asap. Bad water quality might add to the floatyness and stresses the fish out additionally.

If it is a bad case of being floaty that requires medicine, you can always re-add it!

I would add to make sure there is no saltexactly.gif

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Guest clumsymumsy

I've done a 75% water change and re tested the water

P.H- 7.6

ammonia- 0.25ppm

nitrite- 0ppm...................phew :)

nitrate- 5.0ppm

temp- 70f

How can i make sure that the salt is gone?

I have given them peas before and it does seem to help, i will give them a break from the food and then give them peas again.The goldies are not full grown and are about 2" long, last time i gave them 1/2 pea each, too little? too much?

Big red is much better,he does still have solids with air bubbles trailing from him from time to time, so will give them a feeding break, like you suggest.

Should i still continue with the swimbladder treatment as i don't need to add any more salt.I only need to dose the water another 2 times.

Big Red does seem to have a tendancy to gulp at the surface though, even when he was fine! A few days ago he seemed to have real trouble getting to the bottom, but he's swimming a lot more freely now, though he doesn't pick through the gravel as much as he did before!

I haven't tested my tap water yet except for checking the P.H which was also 7.6

what would everybody suggest i feed the goldies instead, as i don't want to give flake if it's no good, but is the freeze dried tubifex and bloodworms any good for them, should i soak that in some of their water before giving it to them? I usually just crumble some of a cube into the tank.

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It seems the food is the cause for Red floating, so I would stop the medicine. The less medicine used, the better for the fish. The salt will be gone through the water changes. It is dissolved in the water, so just now by changing 75% of the water, you removed 75% of the salt you added.

How much salt did you have in the water though? How many teaspon per gallon? You also have to make sure that you increase or decrease the salt slowly, so your fish doesn't go in shock. If it was only 1 teaspoon per 4 liter, then you are fine.

I think half a pea is fine considered the size of the fish, but as said, let them fast for a couple days. It won't hurt them at all :)

The behavior of gupling on the surface even without food might come from being used to eating flakes up there, and when he is "hungry" he is looking for food up there. My Black Moor does that because she is used to being hand fed, and she always comes all the way up... no matter what I do.

By feeding them sinking food you might get him used to looking for food on the bottom of the tank instead of at the surface.

Another reason for the gulping can be that there is not enough oxygen in the water. Fish use it up quickly, and in an overstocked tank even faster. It is always good to have an air stone or bubble wand in there for extra aeration! :)

Good food for them are high quality sinking pellets. I like the Omega One sinking small pellets for Goldfish http://www.dvh-import.com/Site2/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/0d13566d6dfdb032c2f04228d8b9f7ce.jpg or if you don't mind spending a bit more on the food Saki Hikari Goldfish pellets, which is a bit harder to find in pet stores, but can be ordered online. It is the breeder preferred food, and even with being a bit more pricey, it lasts FOREVER.

Soak the pellets in tank water for 5 minutes and then squeeze them a bit to get the remaining air out before feeding them to the fish.

Or you could make gel food yourself. It really is easy to make and cheap, and lasts long because you can freeze it. A big plus is that you know what the fish is getting to eat since you prepared the food yourself. Or you switch between sinking pellets and gel food. The mentioned freeze dried food is also fine, I feed mine blood worms.

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Guest clumsymumsy

thanks for the advice :)

I added 5g per Litre totalling to 225g, i put this into the tank in 2 halves over 2 days. Would i have shocked them by changing 75% of the water and not adding anymore salt? I don't really want to have the salt in the tank if i can help it. I only added it to aid the swimbladder treatment.

I will add the carbon back into the tank filter tomorrow.

I have an Interpet PF1 filter and i use the venturi feature to add air bubbles to the tank and it's turned up to its maximum.

The water in the tank always seems to cloud up after only a few days as well, and i find that i usually change the water by 50% every 2-3 days.

I will try the sinking pellets and maybe the gel food, though i would love some tips on how to do that! lol

Thanx for the advice and tips...it's onwards and upwards from here, though not upwards hopefully for Big Red! eh?!? lol :aint:

oh..... i just tested my tap water,mmmmmmmmmmmm

P.H- 7.6

ammonia- 0ppm

nitrite- 0ppm

nitrate- about 10ppm

should the nitrate level be like that for my tap water???

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I think 10ppm nitrate is ok!

Gel food: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/forum/12-goldfish-food/ Here you will find the how to and recipes!

Salt: Honestly the grams and liters are throwing me off here. I'm used to the US gallons where it is 1 teaspoon per gallon for a 0.1% solution, 2 teaspoons/gallon for a 0.2% and 3 tsp/gallon for a 0.3% solution, with the 0.3% being the strongest solution you should keep your goldfish in.

1 US gallon is about 3.8 liter.

1 teaspoon salt weighs about 6 gram.

48 liter equals 12.7 US gallons.

That would mean about 12 or 13 teaspoons of salt in your tank for a 0.1% solution.

You said you added 225 gram of salt, that would equal 37.5 teaspoons, bringing your water to an almost 0.4% solution!!!

If that's how it is, you have to be glad your fish didn't already go in shock from such a high dose of salt, as you are supposed to dose to 0.1%, then 12 hours later increase to 0.2% and another 12 hours later to 0.3%, to slowly adjust the fish.

Are you sure you added 5 grams per liter? Did I read something wrong here? :blink:

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Guest clumsymumsy

I did as listed on the swimbladder treatment bottle which said to add 5g per litre over 2 days.

George and Red seem fine, with Red more at ease on the bottom now, but swimming around well all over the tank.

i am confused though cos the salt carton said that it should be 1 rounded tablespoon per 19L, that would have been a lot less than on the bottle instructions.

can someone else please confirm this against the interpet treatment bottle, as i feel awful, especially if i've made a big mistake!

Hopefully the fish will be fine!

will keep you all posted

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hi and welcome!

5grams per liter is WAY too much. You need to start with 1gram per liter (equals 0.1%) and raise it every 12 hrs with one extra gram per liter. Raising it faster will risk putting the fish in shock. Unexperienced goldfish keepers should really never go above 3grams per liter - it can be deadly if you are not experienced enough.

just focus on clean water - don't add any more meds, salt and don't feed for the next few days. It just sounds like simple constipation from the flakes. soaked sinking pellets and peas will help his transit :)

oh and I agree, your tank is too small for 2 goldies, you will need more frequent water changes (and a larger tank ideally)

good luck

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It is not your fault if the bottle gave you wrong instructions. Apparently your fish are not in shock and you got rid of most of the salt. Considering you took 75% out you're probably at about between 0.10 and 0.15% right now. :)

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Guest clumsymumsy

awwwwwwwww :thanks

The fish are doing really well now and Big Red is no longer floaty :rockon

I've put the carbon back into the filter and i haven't fed them yet, will feed tonight, but just a little bit! :food

The tank has never looked better and the water is still crystal clear! :fishtank:mytank1:

I love David, he's sooooooooooooooooo cute :kewlpics:

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awwwwwwwww :thanks

The fish are doing really well now and Big Red is no longer floaty :rockon

I've put the carbon back into the filter and i haven't fed them yet, will feed tonight, but just a little bit! :food

The tank has never looked better and the water is still crystal clear! :fishtank:mytank1:

I love David, he's sooooooooooooooooo cute :kewlpics:

wow! great progress (and thanks for adding me to your friends list :bighug )

david is a lilcutie!.. he has a great I'M STRONG character :flex: but is the smallest fish in my tank approx 2".. my largest (sir loyn) is hitting 10" now.. the size difference is huge and they loooooove hanging out together!.. :rofl

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Your fish are so pretty! :)

One more tip though: as the tank is already too small, you should remove the big colorful ornament. It only uses up swimming room and takes up space that could be replaced with some more water :)

Also, is it hollow? Hollow ornaments with only one whole where the water can't really flow through it are dangerous for fish. The water inside can become stagnant and turn into Bacteria Central.

I know that a few members on here lost fish because of the bacteria in stagnant water inside such hollow ornaments. I recently removed some of mine too when I found out about that.

The barrel ornament is fine as it has several holes and the water can circulate through it.

On the top right, is that the air bubble thing? If so, try to move it to the bottom of the tank. This will aerate the water better, as the bubbles are in contact with the water longer when rising up to the surface, and so will give more oxygen to the water :)

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Guest clumsymumsy

I did think about taking the bigger ornament out, i guess i should just go with my gut feeling a little more! :D

The air bubble feature needs a certain % of it to be out of the water, but it will still aerate the water if i put it to the bottom, so i'll try that and turn the water flow wand upwards to agitate the water more.

Thanx for the advice, much appreciated :)

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