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Broken Lower Caudal Fin Bone?


Mumzilla

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So I am keeping an eye on Gyarados's 'pimple' and I notice his lower caudal is sticking out at an add angle. My husband commented the other night that he looked like an old woman wobbling around the tank. I just assumed it was difficult for him to pull that beautifully massive tail around. But upon closer inspection, I think the bone where the fin attached may actually be broken. He is a big boy (10 inches) and the guy was a little rough (imo) when he netted him out of the river at the LFS - yes, the store has a river :) The fin on the other side lays flat and low, but on the side in question it juts out sideways and even sticks up occasionally. I will attempt video later, but my real question is - is there anything to do for a broken bone? Or just watch and wait? He is eating and moving OK - I think he would move better if he had full use of the fin, but he seems happy and sassy. It could even be an old injury or birth defect for all I know, but I just realized the difference between the 2 fins when I really watched for it this evening. My water params are all the same as on my last post about his pimple. I added .1% salt and it is doing better. I did a 75% wc yesterday, but as I said - this has nothing to do with water - it is not clamped - it is bent. Thanks

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I don't think there are any bones in the fins... :hmm

But if his fin seems bent oddly, it's most likely just a genetic defect. Or maybe he encountered current that was too strong while a fry. Their fins can get bent as fry if the water is too turbulent. There are many goldfish with slightly bent fins, since their fins are so big it's pretty common. Also it's a common genetic defect, but it doesn't normally hinder them at all. Purely cosmetic. He doesn't seem to be swimming oddly because of it, right? A video would be really good when you get to that later.

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I am currently uploading a video - I started at 7 Pm and it is now 9:40 and the video is 48% loaded - my internet connection is SLOW to say the least. It does affect his swimming, but he compensates. I looked up fish anatomy and skeletal structure and I am pretty sure there are bones at the base of the fins. I could be mistaken. Whether it is cartilage or bone, it is broken.

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I am currently uploading a video - I started at 7 Pm and it is now 9:40 and the video is 48% loaded - my internet connection is SLOW to say the least. It does affect his swimming, but he compensates. I looked up fish anatomy and skeletal structure and I am pretty sure there are bones at the base of the fins. I could be mistaken. Whether it is cartilage or bone, it is broken.

I think Haruka thought you were talking about bones in the actual caudal fin, but from what I understand you are talking about the caudal peduncle, right? That's the narrow part of the body right before the fin starts. And there are definitely bones in that part.

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I am currently uploading a video - I started at 7 Pm and it is now 9:40 and the video is 48% loaded - my internet connection is SLOW to say the least. It does affect his swimming, but he compensates. I looked up fish anatomy and skeletal structure and I am pretty sure there are bones at the base of the fins. I could be mistaken. Whether it is cartilage or bone, it is broken.

I think Haruka thought you were talking about bones in the actual caudal fin, but from what I understand you are talking about the caudal peduncle, right? That's the narrow part of the body right before the fin starts. And there are definitely bones in that part.

yes - the peduncle and the thick part leading to the fin. Thanks

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Hmm... that does look strange. Whether it's a genetic thing or an injury, I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done though. If I were you I'd just keep a close eye on it and make sure he can still get around alright. It doesn't seem to hinder his swimming much. If he develops any kind of sore, open wound, or irritation, then I'd add salt at .1% just to be safe.

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Hmm... that does look strange. Whether it's a genetic thing or an injury, I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done though. If I were you I'd just keep a close eye on it and make sure he can still get around alright. It doesn't seem to hinder his swimming much. If he develops any kind of sore, open wound, or irritation, then I'd add salt at .1% just to be safe.

I already salted because of his 'pimple'. Yeah he definitely gets his fair share of food and gets around ok.

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I just wanted to say that he's gorgeous :) I hope he gets better!

Thanks - I LOVE him - he has fit right in and I enjoy watching him. My Amish neighbors come over to watch him too - the kids love him and he is quite a performer!

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What a gorgeous big guy! I am impressed that he is that big and still holding his black color!

I only have a few things to add...

First and foremost is that your fish does not have a broken bone. That is called a "curl" and it's quite common. It's caused either by a genetic defect or an environmental problem when the fish is a fry. It's nothing to worry about. I am sure you will find that he has adapted his swimming style quite uniquely to work with his "handicap." It does not detract from the beauty of your fish! He is gorgeous (as I said earlier :) )!! That being said, this isn't the fish that you are going to want to take to a goldfish show, or use in a breeding program. In a show he would probably be disqualified because his fins aren't "evenly matched and held at the correct angles" as the breed standards demand. And you wouldn't want to use him as a breeder just in case this is a genetic problem because of the potential of passing it on.

The second thing I wanted to say is that the peduncle is a part of the body that connects the caudal (tail) to the body. It's the very narrow end of the vertebral column. I circled it in this picture:

HPIM0953-1.jpg

And also I wanted to clarify that fish actually DO have bones in their fins. They don't extend to the end of the fins, but they definitely are in there. I found this online just by doing a google search...

51001.jpg

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Hey Sarah! I found that photo too, because this thread had me curious. What I wondered about though are the gills... it looks like that skeleton has bones in the gills too, which doesn't seem right... Do you know what's going on there?!

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I had researched anatomy and skeletal structure before I posted, plus I have filleted my share of blue gills so I was aware of the parts and bones. I learned the proper term (peduncle) about the same time npila1 posted it (thanks for that though - it reaffirmed.)

Thanks ryukin girl for the info on curls- that makes me feel better. He won't be going to any shows - just swimming in my tank :) And I agree he is gorgeous and quite a find. Gotta love Preuss Pet's - thank you Rick Preuss! The coloring in his tail is my next work - he has natural orange in his tail, but I think he may have some streaking too. Hopefully the salt for the bacteria will clear it up if it is streaking.

And on the gills I found this:"In bony fish, the gills lie in a branchial chamber covered by a bony operculum." Wikipedia

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And on the gills I found this:"In bony fish, the gills lie in a branchial chamber covered by a bony operculum." Wikipedia

Well that is interesting, thanks! I will be dissecting a bony fish soon in zoology lab, so hopefully I'll get to see this for myself! :)

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:)

I do love Preuss. I just was there this weekend and I cajoled my boyfriend into buying two more goldfish! A BEAUTIFUL black telescope from the upper river and one of the blue oranda's from the back tanks. Now I only wish I could have them here with me!

I'm glad we put your fears to rest! :)

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Yeah - my big guy was from the upper river as well. I took in one of my big shubys as a partial trade. I can't believe how much calmer my tank is without him! I love Preuss and it is on the way to my niece's house in Lansing so I get to go quite often even though I an west of Mount Pleasant. And a defect makes sense on his peduncle (giggle...funny word) because I think a break would be more problem causing. He still looks like an old lady waddling thru the tank, but he gets where he needs to go and loves to play in the bubbles. None of the fancies in the back at Preuss were available yet (still in QT) when I was in, but they were gorgeous. Were there any fry left in the river? Or had they all been munched?

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There were quite a few fry left...no goldie fry though! Too bad...I would have loved to take some of those home! :)

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oh.. they're all beautiful and healthy!.. good work.. i loved every second of your video! i am so happy that there is nothing severley wrong with Gyarados.. he's such a beautiful thing with a majestic tail!

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