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Trying To Save A Happy Pine Cone


pss_gold

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I am trying to save a pine coned fish from the wall of mart. He doesn't seem to care that he's a pine cone so he seems like a fighter. There's also a bite at the base of his tail. He was with koi, shubbies, and commons. :(

He's an black oranda in a 2 gallon hospital tank with freshwater and a pH of 7.8. I've started him on jungle anti bacterial food and I've seen him eat two pieces. He's a good 3 inch fish so I'm guessing I need to get him to eat more. The salt is up to about 0.2% and it looks like slime is coming off of him maybe. I'm not sure though I don't know where else the slime would have come from. I'm using stress coat + with the aloe so hopefully that will help the bite. There's a bubbler and I'm going to add a mini filter when he has a bit more strength; I don't want him wasting energy trying to stay in one place. I'm going to change the water twice a day. That's why I went for food instead of water mix and food is more direct.

Here's some pictures:

Album

He's got a really cute face and is alert. Dorsal fin up at attention. :)

Any additions to what I've started doing? I knew he wouldn't last much longer at all if I left him there and I've wanted an all black one.

Edited by Yuko
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Do you have a bigger tub? Immediately take out the regular salt. Regular salt makes pineconing worse. You will need to use epsom salt and it is 1/8 teaspoons per 10 gallons. Would you be able to get a rubbermaid bin?

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Tay and Ashlee have given excellent advice. The prognosis for dropsied fish is poor, though, so things might not go well despite your best efforts.

I just feel compelled to throw this out there: Please keep in mind that buying a sick fish from a big-box store isn't really a "rescue." I totally understand that he would have died for sure without your intervention. But all the WalFart people see is that their fish are selling, regardless of the conditions in which they're kept. And they will surely order more.

If we all don't buy those sick and dying fish, the WalFart manager files a claim with corporate to be reimbursed for those dead ones. If this happens enough, perhaps corporate will crack down on the supplier/breeder, and demand healthier fish. The sick-fish-at-a-chain-store issue isn't one that can be solved one fish at a time; it needs to be attacked at the roots. Very similar to puppy mills, if you're familiar with those.

</rant>

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I agree with Dee Dee - next time don't buy it, make them give it to you. :)

anyways, I think VERY CLEAN WATER. higher temps - of about 26C. Epson 1/4 TEAspoon for 10gal. And since he is so pineconed I think medicated food is a good idea here. You need MetroMeds or maybe better (and faster) for you to get it Jungle AntiPARASITIC medicated food. Make sure you soak the food well in warm water and squeeze the pellets between your fingers before feeding. Feed this for 2 weeks. - this is what worked well for my dropsy survivor Dr.House. :heart

make sure you get ALL the normal salt out before you add the epson (this can be found in a pharmacy or drug store).

And I agree with Tay - try and get at least a 10gal rubber tub for it. Otherwise the water is going to get bad fast - and dropsy fish cannot take this well.

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Yeah we're pretty sure one of our dogs was from a raided puppy mill. He's really a weird dog o.O I know I'm never buying another fish from them after him. He was just too cute to let die. They manage to get some really pretty fish in and then fail to take care of them. >.< I've talked tons of other people looking at the fish out of buying them so I think I've done my part :) If I don't get the job from them, I'm going to call corporate and tell them what's going on. They will not be happy. >:D

Epsom? Got it. I'll pick some up tomorrow and change the water tonight so he'll have fresh salt free water. I have a bigger 5 gallon bucket that I use for changing water that i'd rather not use :/ I can hopefully pick something bigger up tomorrow. I'm sadly prepared for a bad out come with him which is why I haven't named him yet. He's just referred to as Mr. Fish. He's going to get the name of all names if he pulls through :3

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I agree with Dee Dee - next time don't buy it, make them give it to you. :)

anyways, I think VERY CLEAN WATER. higher temps - of about 26C. Epson 1/4 TEAspoon for 10gal. And since he is so pineconed I think medicated food is a good idea here. You need MetroMeds or maybe better (and faster) for you to get it Jungle AntiPARASITIC medicated food. Make sure you soak the food well in warm water and squeeze the pellets between your fingers before feeding. Feed this for 2 weeks. - this is what worked well for my dropsy survivor Dr.House. :heart

make sure you get ALL the normal salt out before you add the epson (this can be found in a pharmacy or drug store).

And I agree with Tay - try and get at least a 10gal rubber tub for it. Otherwise the water is going to get bad fast - and dropsy fish cannot take this well.

Parasitic? I thought it was caused by bacteria? I can get anti parasite tomorrow too. Can I feed both or just the parasite? I have reverse osmosis so the water is as clean as can be (I do add the minerals back in) n.n I also have a heater so if I get the bigger tub, it'll be good to go. He just has to make it through the night. Should I stop the anti bio? Maybe feed him a pea for the night?

I'll see if I can get a credit for the fishie when I'm there tomorrow to talk to the boss. Especially if I have pictures, it might help. And if Mr. Fish pulls through.

I'll change the water as soon as my roommate is out of the shower. :)

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My disagreement here is about sodium chloride being bad for dropsy. I don't believe so. It does help aid with the fish's osmoregulation thus allowing the bloating to subside. Both that and at least 150-250 ppm of hardness levels are equally important in reducing the bloating issue.

As long as the fish in question still eats, then metro based foods are not a problem however for those that refuse to eat, then waterborne treatment is the best way to go. 250mg per 10g for metro dosing.

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hmm well maybe having him in the salt for a few hours helped to replace some electrolytes and stuff so maybe a night in clean water will help. I added a good dose of the r/o right so there's some good hard water in there. He's a lot more active now that he's been out the bag for a few hours. I think his slight freak out time is over. :)

I'll upgrade his treatment by noon tomorrow. Would a waterborne treatment go well with the food? It was quite a bit more expensive than the food. He was in a tank where the fish had a lot of ich and even he had some yesterday so I guess anti-parasite is the way to go with some epsom. Can I feed both foods at the same time? Kick everything in the booty?

If he's alive in the morning, I'll let you guys know asap and keep you updated. Thanks so much for putting me on the right track. I've read the diagnosis forums often enough to know what to look for but never treated a dropsy fish myself. I make sure to wash my hands between tanks. My other babies will stay safe :)

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Let me clear this for a moment. So we're dealing with BOTH ich and dropsy.

I'd continue the salt. We have to focus the parasites aside from the bloating issue but salt can take down both with ich a few notches below. Continue 0.2% and up to 0.3%.

What are your KH and GH right now?

As for foods, I'd continue the Jungle AP only. It does have metro added. Get a metro waterborne treatment though just in case the fish stops eating. There's no way to be sure when it'll suddenly lose its appetite.

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yea it is the Jungle AntiPARASITIC because that is the one that contains the Metro for some reason.

he has no ich right? after my various experiences with dropsy I still think the epson is a better call then the regular salt (since they cannot be used together). my moor Dr.House doesn't stand salt and will re-dropsy if it is added to her tank. just also make sure you raise the temp and add lots of bubbles to ease the breathing.

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I agree with Lupin about the regular salt being good to use with dropsy cases. I actually got confirmation of that from my vet who treats fish. She advises a .1% NaCl concentration in the tank to aid in osmoregulation. This means 1 teaspoon per gallon.

In my experience epsom salt really doesn't have any noticeable affect.

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He's still fighting so let's continue :)

Ok, when I was there a couple days ago, he had a decent amount of ich on his tail and he was slightly pine coned. He didn't have he bite on his tail then. They said they wouldn't sell me a sick fish they and the lady overdosed the tank with an ich treatment. Luckily, she didn't take out the carbon so that saved most of their lives. Too bad it knocked Mr. Fish's brother who was sooo pretty :cry1 She had no idea what she was doing and she got an earful from me.

The ich is not that prevalent anymore and I think the salt really helped. I don't think he has an intolerance to normal salt (since he's still alive) so I think I'll give it a shot and focus my money on a bigger container for him.

He ate a pea last night with gusto :D I doubt he'd ever had one and he looked sooooo happy. I'll pick up the anti-parasite jungle food and return the anti bacterial if I don't need it. I might keep a tiny bit just incase but when I bought it, it had a lot of dust on it... I hope the anti parasite is a bit newer. I'm going to get my r/o going so I can get him some new water when I get back with the tub. I think he has trouble seeing the tiny pellets, any way to fix that?

Thanks Haruka for the link. It's kind of funny that they pulled out the anti parasite food first and were like this? and I was like, nope, bacterial. :lol1 Now I get to go back and swap.

I have one heater and it came with my 75 gallon tank. I temporarily used it on my 15 gallon because we had a really cold day before the management turned the heat on and it didn't seem to turn off when it got up to the temperature... Maybe because it's such a high wattage (I think 300) it's not really meant for smaller bodies of water? Luckily my long days are over for the week so I'm basically on weekend already. Only a couple classes a day and tons of time to devote to the fishie.

The kH and gH I go for is enough to make the water go from an unreadable low pH to 7.8. I measured last time and it was a kH of 3 and a gH of 16 according to the api drop test. that's how many degrees or something, I'm not too sure. All I know is the 16 was waaaay off the chart since it only went to 12. xD (It took that many drops to get the color to change)

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i just quickly read this thread... the rescue sure is a pretty one.. just wanted to add my two cents and say, please make sure the salt is dissolved in tank water, you can do this by boiling some tank water and dissolving the salt in it.. then i just add more tank water to cool it down and then add the salt like that to the tank. good luck, i hope there is some improvement soon.

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Try this to find the chart for hardness.

http://www.e-aquarium.com.au/water-hardness.htm

Your water is still soft though. I'd double or triple it. I can't remember easily if you already added crushed corals. Have you? I would just stop using RO water to help with the hardness for the time being.

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stakos- I normally get some of the salt in a bottle and shake it until it dissolves, then add it. Your way works too :) He has a lionhead face with chubby cheeks <3 I hope I get the chance to post healthy pictures :)

Lupin - I hae 2 cups in my big tank and I can put some in the little filter I'm going to put on his container. Not much though. I might just put some in a filter bag and hang it in there. I've got a total of 19 degrees of harness which makes my water in the "hard" category. I can't use tap water because it has 3ppm of ammonia and would make him kick the bucket really fast :(

I'm heading out to get the new food and a container soon so hopefully all will work out. He seems to be swimming more in the middle of the water now instead of on the bottom. Maybe he's feeling a little better already :)

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Oh! What an unusual tap water.o.O Now I see why you use RO water and add back the minerals. Here's hoping everything is planned right and will work well.:heart

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Yep unusual indeed. I was really confused when I was getting 4ppm on day 2 knowing my fish can't produce that much waste.

I'll have a short video of Mr. Fish in his third water change and his new anti parasite food as soon as my camera is charged. The ich seems a bit worse today but hopefully the salt at .1% will help. I'll boost it up a bit more tonight when I get him in a bigger container. I didn't have time to grab one before the bus came. He seems happy with his little bubbler and mini filter. He likes to stare at me now. It's so funny :) I move him around with a glass bowl so he doesn't even notice something is happening :)

I think I'm going to name him Piney if he lives since he started off in my care as a pine cone :D

Odd question that passed through my head: Is it possible that it's not dropsy and that's just the way he is? *shrug* Is it possible to have a goldfish with scales naturally like that? o.O Just curious.

I'm going to keep treating him knowing a pine cone = unhealthy. Hopefully he'll eat since my hand accidentally twitched when adding the food. A bit much :rolleyes:

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haha just wondering :undecided:

He doesn't care for the parasite food. He keeps spitting it out. Can I make a gel food out of it with some garlic? If no, then I'll have to get some water treatment instead. Anything with metro right? He loved the pea... though he was in the bucket and I couldn't see if he spit it out or not. hmmm

Or maybe he's so swollen that he can't get the food down? Or he's just really picky :rolleyes: I've tried to tell him this is not a time to be picky :rolleyes:

Here's a video of him. I didn't take out the extra food out yet so there's tons floating around. I've taken it out since I shot it.

Video

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seeing him in the film almost looks like he is fighting flukes too? could be a reason he isn't eating.

You can put the jungle in gel food :) Just make sure you add it once the gel has cooled (if you have the type that needs to be cooked) - try either garlic or a tiny bit of tuna for the stink :)

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