Bottom Sitting Again

[npila1]

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 0-5

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 6.6-6.8 (I don't know when/how it dropped so much! last time I checked it was 7.4-7.6)

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.5

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

[*]Water temperature? 70-72 F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20 gallons, 3.5 months (I know it's too small and I will upgrade)

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Aquaculture/Tetra 10-30 gallons

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 25% once to twice a week

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 commons and 1 comet, about 2 inches each

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Stresscoat and stresszyme

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? progold 4-5 times a week, peas twice a week, cheese once a week, freeze dried bloodworms twice a week, fasting one day a week

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? no

[*]Any medications added to the tank? prazi pro (I'm on day 22 of the treatment)

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? no

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? bottom sitting with fin clamped

I'm on day 22 of the prazi treatment (I did a water change yesterday and added prazi - next water change and prazi addition due next monday). Today my comet started bottom sitting again like she used to before I started the prazi treatment, but she hadn't been doing it since the start of treatment (so for the past 3 weeks). I got worried and tested the water and to my surprise, I saw that pH dropped to 6.6-6.8 from the usual 7.4-7.6!!! I don't know when/how this happened... Could this be stressing them out? Should I do anything about the pH (i.e. water change or add pH-UP) or just leave it like that? If I do a water change, will I mess up my prazi treatment?

[Cynders]

It could be the pH drop that is bothering her. Do you have any crushed coral at all? Do you have an extra tub laying around to age your water with?

Just a side note: I would up your water changes to 50%-75% weekly to prevent any bacterial load problems or waste issues just incase.

[npila1]

Hi, thanks for the quick reply. I actually just tested the tap water to see if that would help determine what's going on and the pH of the tap water was 6.6-6.8... When I tested it a while ago, it was 7.4 and I assumed it hadn't changed. In this case, the pH in the tank may have been 6.8 for a while now.

I have some seashells and I also have pH-UP. Do you suggest adding one of these two to increase the pH, even though I'm not sure at this point if this is the problem.

Unfortunately I don't have an extra tub.

Just to check, it's ok to have filter floss while I'm doing the prazi treatment right? I remember reading that the filter floss doesn't remove prazi.

[Cynders]

I would maybe try to put the seashells in until you are able to get some crushed coral. The seashells will raise your pH and that should help. Do not use the pH up, it is only a temporary means and will most likely just cause your pH to fall all over again.

When you get the crushed coral you will want to put it in a meshbag or some pantyhose and put it in the filter. This will keep your water buffered to a constant 7.5-7.6 over time and you won't need to replace it except perhaps once a year.

As for the filter floss, no it will not remove the prazi. You never want to remove your filter floss except for swishing it in old tank water if it gets gunky. It is perfect for your beneficial bacteria to colonize and is a part of your filter media. Carbon is what removes prazi and other medications from the water.

[npila1]

Ok, I'll add some seashells for now, as you suggested. Where can I get crushed coral from? I don't remember seeing it at pet stores...

So, since there is evidence that the flukes are still there (yawning, some gulping, and now one of them is bottom sitting again), should I still not increase how often I add prazi? Should I just wait until next Monday (day 28) to add more prazi?

Thanks!

[Cynders]

You can usually get crushed coral from your lfs store, but it's usually in bigger bags. If all else fails try an aquatics store that specializes in fish, or a saltwater fish pet store. They're guaranteed to have some or maybe even a sample.

Definitely wait until next monday. This gives the remaining fluke eggs time to hatch in the time inbetween and you can kill those buggers!

Edited October 13, 2010 by Haruka

[npila1]

Ok thanks for everything. I may post again later if something else comes up, but I think I'm good for now with the advice you've been given me

[Cynders]

Absolutely no problem, Keep us posted at the end of the prazi treatment or if new problems arise. I hope your lovely fishies feel better soon.

[Helen]

i agree with hakura. no ph up.. just shells, that should be enough to do the trick.. and i think for a 20 gallon, about half a cup full should be fine.. i experienced too many shells keeps the level too high..

be prepared that the tank water will in most cases go cloudy when you add the shells.. you can reduce the cloudiness by rinsing them thouroughly (stirring whilst rinsing) before adding them to your filter, but they will still cloud, just not as much.. this will eventually be sorted by the filter and you will have clear water again.

how soon till the new larger tank?

[npila1]

I added a few shells last night and a few this morning... I thought it might be better to add a few at a time so that the pH doesn't change too fast, but when I tested the water this morning, it was 6.4.... I don't know what's going on. How long do you expect it to take for the shells to make a difference in the pH? They are active and look fine though.

By the way I just put the shells on the gravel, not in the filter - should i move them into the filter? I'm not sure there is much space in the filter...

It will at least a couple of months until I can get a bigger tank because I live in a dorm right now and unfortunately there is no room at all for a bigger tank.

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

I think you have to look on Goldfish Connection what products for pH they have. I think that the sea shells are a good idea but - what about when you do a water change? There is no way the shells will work so quick. You need a product which you can add to your tap water BEFORE you put it in your tank that will help raise the pH - so your tank one stays stable at about 7-7.5 depending.

I have naturally high pH, so I don't use any products.

But I think this is the recommended one.

Buff it Up.

[npila1]

Hi Federica, thanks for the tip! Do you have any idea when I will be able to see an increase in the pH with the seashells that I put in now?

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

I think it will take a few days? Don't let it drop too much - I think you can use baking soda as a emergency remedy - but I have never used it so I do not know the dosing etc.

[npila1]

I actually don't have baking soda... But I do have two more questions because my comet is bottom sitting again today, every once in a while, and I'm trying to think what will make her feel better.

1) Should I add some aquarium salt? I remember reading that it makes goldfish more comfortable when they have flukes.

2) The tap water pH is 6.8 - I tested it again this morning and even though, it's hard for me to distinguish between the colors from 6.6 to 7.2, I think it's around 6.8 (it's not completely green, it has a blue tint to it). So, should I do a water change to bring up the pH a bit until the seashells start making a difference?

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

what is the tank? I think you can do a water change if the tank pH = tap pH.

I am not sure about salt and low pH. Maybe someone else with low pH stops by.

[npila1]

The tank pH is 6.4. That's why I want to do a water change (to increase the pH a bit).

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

okey so just to make sure I understand - the tank pH FALLS after you do water changes?

have you managed to get your GH and KH tested? Have you already added the crushed coral? It seems you have very soft AND acidic water.

I hope koko stops by, she knows a lot about pH things.

[npila1]

No, I haven't tested my KH and GH. I have added the seashells, but I don't have crushed coral yet.

I don't know if the pH falls after I do water changes. I was saying that the tank pH is 6.4 and the tap pH is 6.8, so I figured that if I did a water change, I would get my tank pH to go up (maybe to 6.6)...

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

yea then do a w/c. I thought your tap was lower than your tank. I think adding a good handful of crushed coral will really help keep it AT LEAST as high as the tap.

[npila1]

Ok I'll do that then. And I'll buy crushed coral as soon as I get a chance.

Since I added prazi 2 days ago, will doing a water change today mess up the treatment? Is it better to wait until tomorrow (when prazi is supposed to get deactivated) to do the water change?

Thanks!

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

you can do a water change now and re-add the prazi you take out. But then you also have to do one tomorrow to take the prazi back out