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3 Fish Lionhead Sitting On The Bottom Next To The Filter


Guest dambo5

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Hi,

I have 55 gallon tank, 5X filtering, good aeration.

Doing 50% weakly changes, all the water parameters are normal.

Treat the water for chlorine when changing, cleaning the filter not using the tap water ... pretty much standard scheme. Temperature around 76-77.

Feeding them twice a day with flakes, once/twice a week some peas instead, rare festing.

7 fish inside, 3 lionheads(2"), 1 blackmoor(2") and 3 comets(1"), I know it is not 10gallons per fish but they are small and I do a lot of water change.

There was one more black moor that was eating Lionheads tails so I removed it in another tank. I think (by the way other fish are chasing the Lionheads) that all 3 of them are females (one of them even throw few eggs which was surprise for me because of the size) ....

One of the lionheads has swim blade for months.(trying with peas, no luck). It is smaller in size as well because it does not do much swimming from the beginning. So the fish was standing next to the filter with its head down and everything was more or less OK in the tank with other fish.

In the last 5-6 weeks all 3 goldfish are sitting next to the filter, lying on the gravel and do literally no moving at all except for food .. which looks awful. Other fish (probably sexual call) are pushing and pressing them from time to time, more aggressively in the morning.

As read, I did fest all of the fish for 3 days and then continue to feed them for another 3 days with peas only ... no changes.

A guy from the fish store suggest gentle massage on the fish belly I tried that as well .. nothing.

I don't know if the swim bladder is the reason that keeps all 3 of them in one place or all 3 are sick .. but please help, any advice will be appreciated since these are my first 3 fish(been here 10 months) and they are really famous in my house.

Thank you,

Aleksandar

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Start by doing a water change. A very large one 75 to 80 percent. Also we need to know the test results.

Only other suggestion I can make without the test results is get a bigger tank as soon as you can. 20 gallons for first fish 10 for all your fancies and 20 for the comment. I would not wait on this and when you do be sure to get 10x gph filters for the tank. If it is going to be a while I would get the filters and use some type of rubber maid containers that are big enough for the fist.

A lot of the behavior you are describing could be cause the space is to small.

Hopeful someone with more sick fish knowledge well come along soon. But what I have advised wont hurt any of them and huge water changes is always the first thing I do no matter what my test say when I think a fish might be sick.

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I agree that a water change is the first step when there is something wrong with your fish. Have your goldfish ever been treated for flukes? My goldfish were bottom sitting and they were later diagnosed with flukes, so I have been treating them with prazi pro and they are no longer bottom sitting. Maybe that's what's going on with yours, too. Have you noticed them gulping at the surface or yawning?

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Have your goldfish ever been treated for flukes? My goldfish were bottom sitting and they were later diagnosed with flukes, so I have been treating them with prazi pro and they are no longer bottom sitting. Maybe that's what's going on with yours, too.

I second this. Two of my teles bottom sat every single day. Since starting their prazi a week ago, they haven't done it once.

But the overstocking and filtration are also going to be an issue if it isn't already.

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Thank you all for the reply. I tried to leave only 5 fish in a tank few weeks ago, no luck, so guess its not the crowd.

I'll give you the water parameters tonight.

As for the flukes, can you please explain tome whay isit, how to discover and how to treat, since i never did this before.

Thanks a lot

A.

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Ok I did some research (full day on the internet) and I realized that flukes may be my problem so I'll give it a try.

Now I have some questions:

- Since I can not find PraziPro in my country I found out that the main ingredient of it is praziquantel.

I got sera med Professional Tremazol http://www.sera.de/index.php?id=346&L=1 which has 7.5gram praziquantel in 100ml liquid. Kokos forum says that the chemistry should be put in water with the following schedule:

Day 1 -- remove carbon, perform water change with vacuuming, and add Prazi to tank

Day 2 -- add Prazi

Day 3 -- do nothing

Day 4 -- do nothing

Day 5 -- do nothing

Day 6 -- add Prazi

Day 7 -- add Prazi

Day 8 -- normal partial water change with vacuuming

Day 14 - normal partial water change, then add Prazi

Day 21 - normal partial water change, then add Prazi

Day 28 - normal partial water change, then add Prazi

Day 35 - normal partial water change, add carbon, treatment is complete

On my medication it says the following:

put the doze in the tank and do 80% water change after 6 hours. Repeat the same procedure in 7 days.

Or another option, (treatment outside the aquarium) keep the sick fish in outside tank with the same doze for 20 minutes and return the fish back.

http://www.sera.de/fileadmin/gbi/02190-02192-sera_tremazol_36.05_int.pdf

Now I do not know what to do and how to treat them?

Another thing, is it clever to put the 3 sick fish outside the aquarium in a 5-6 gallon of water and than do the treatment? What am I actually treating, the fish or the aquarium?

Or else, can I remove 20 gallons of the tank do the treatment on smaller amount of water and then go back to normal?

Please help.

Thank you,

Aleksandar

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I would say that all of your fish need to be treated with the medication, so you don't need to take the sick one out of the aquarium and move it. I am not familiar with the exact medication you are talking about, but if I were you, I would follow the instructions on the bottle, just because I'm not sure if this medication has the exact same ingredients (and same concentration) as prazi pro, so the proposed treatment on koko's may not apply to Tremazol. Good luck and let us know if you need more help!

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Also, I don't know if it says this on the bottle of the medication you bought, but make sure you take the carbon out of your filter before adding the medication.

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Thank you,

I'll do as it says on the bottle with 6 hours treatment and again the same after 7 days and see the results.

I do not have carbon in my filter so it should not be a problem.

I'll keep you posted about the results.

Aleksandar

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I hope the first dosage went well. Keep in mind that the fish may look worse right after you start adding the medication, but this is normal. However, do make sure your water quality remains good so that it doesn't cause additional stress on your sick fish.

Let us know how it's going!

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Sounds like a plan. Flukes treatment plans are fairly flexible since most flukes are killed on the first dose, the dose that affects the fish worst too, in that they may bottom sit. Then you have to catch the hatch outs /larval forms which are not caught by prazi until they hatch.

Also, these fish sound gravid.Is there any chance you can separate the males from females more?. i know you did one. This would also solve the overstocking problem. Some bottom sitting is normal for gravid females. I hope the prazi goes well, keep us posted as said :)

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Thanks for the suggestions I did not know that the situation may get worse at the beginning.

I did the 1st ever flukes treatment yesterday and as suggested on the bottle did 80% water change afterward(after 6h).

As I saw after that and this morning, 2 of the sick fish were swimming :-) (not much but they were moving and rush for the food which was not the case) the other 4 were totally OK and the 7th which I think is swim bladder is continuing to stay upside down, again as expected. So I would say that this treatment had some influence to this two fish but I'll continue to look and be back to you.(thank you all I was not aware that flukes exists at all)

At the end I added some vitamin C and conditioner in the 80% new water.

As I can see on the forum, some people saying that the main effect in this types of treatment is to repeat it again and again few times in a row? If so and if fish do not start to swim I'll repeat the operation in 7 days (as prescribed on the bottle) and take all other fish out (both not to poison them and to do some extra space for this 3). Does this repetition sounds like a good idea to you?

Can you tell me if the flukes treatment is something that you do whenever you introduce new fish to the aquarium in the period of quarantine? (because all i did so far while doing quarantine was keeping the fish in the separate tanks for 3 weeks)?

Should I do the fluke treatment and if so how often should it be repeated even if I do not have problems? Can it do any harm to healthy fish?

If after two treatments the fish are still lazy, can I try salt treatment ?

Again thank you all for trying to help.

A.

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The way I always treat new fish is to do three weeks at .03% salt, one week at .02% and every week I do a prazi dose. I think this is a good treatment plan for your current fish and for any new fish. The week before I add new fish, I prazi dose the main tank as well. And do one more dose when the new fish is added. Of course, I am fairly paranoid.

I think starting to slowly raise your salt level would be a good choice here.

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Dambo, just to clarify, salt alone will not kill flukes - you need prazi for that. However, salt can/should be used as a tonic/stress reducer. To answer your questions, as amynmitchell said, yes you do a prazi treatment during the quarantine of your new fish. Prazi can also be used as a PREVENTATIVE, so no, it will not harm healthy fish!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok here are the results of the treatment(thank you all for your king suggestions):

I did the prazi treatment twice suggested on the bottle in 4 days interval. I have continued with 2 treatment of flagyl in 1 week interval. Due to suggestions on the prazi bottle in this period I did 3-4 times >80% water change. After this I did salt treatment up to 0.3% for a week.

Treat the water for chlorine and metal all the time(as usual), adding some vitamin C all the time.

The current situation is 6 fish (very small) in 55G tank, good aeration, 5X filtering :-(. I lowered the feeding to once a day 4 days dry flakes (small amount) 2 days peas 1 day fest.

The water parameters 7 days after water change are:

ph 8-8.5

gh 16

NO2 0

NH4 ~0

NH3 ~0

Temp 76-77F

Which I think is good and I think that I did not kill my cycle.

The fish are happy in the morning still swimming at the bottom but swimming instead of seating. However after a while the 2 lionheads are back to their fixed position at the bottom of the tank with little or no activity at all. They eat quite good which makes me happy. What I noticed is that after food happy hour 1-2h digging around the aquarium they become passive. Any idea what else should I do in order to fix this situation? Other 4 fish are a somehow passive (floating in the middle of the tank with no swimming activity)

No gulping yawning or breading at the surface of the tank of any fish.

One more question, maybe stupid but, can lights influence the fish behavior in some manner? I think that once I turn the lights they become more passive (all 6 of them)?

I am 99% sure it is not swim blade.

Thank you,

Aleksandar

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