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Wanda Has Dropsy


Guest kbusschau

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Guest kbusschau

I've read several discussions on this forum about emergency treatment for dropsy, which is what I'm sure Wanda developed.

I have a large fantail oranda goldfish that's developed a bulge on one side and has started to 'pinecone' and swim sideways. I took the water in for testing and they said it was "perfect" -- so possibly it's from bacteria (?)

So I've moved her into a large tupperware 10 gal container with an Eclipse pump and heater and the 1/4 teaspoon dissolved epsom salts. Put her in 1/2 bathroom with light off and added a floor heater set at 80 degrees to keep room temp at that because I need to test whether the aquarium heater will work -- it's been working at 76 degrees in 29 gallon tank put it seemed hard to move the dial over to 80.

I only put Amquel in to treat the water. The snail that was in the tank with her was/is doing fine.

How often do you do water changes with epsom salt -- for how many days -- and what amount of water changes should be done? daily?

Are there other signs besides the obvious that there is improvement? She acts like she wants to eat but it's almost as if she can't see the food (?) Should I try putting cooked, chopped peas in there for a few days?

Do you need to put a lid on the tupperware container?

Any advise on what else I should be doing would be much appreciated.

If I can find out a way to get a pic off my iPhone, I will post as soon as that's figured out.

Thanks, Wanda's ' mom' (Kristin)

Edited by kbusschau
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Hi,

Please let your store elaborate what "perfect" is. Let them write down the exact results and note what test kit they used. I'm personally not very convinced by their false assurance. If possible, can you invest an API liquid test kit for yourself so you can see the results as accurate as possible? In my opinion, it would be better if you do. They may be using test strips that could contribute to the unreliability of the results.

Please test your KH (carbonate hardness) and GH (general hardness) as well. With dropsy, we need to adjust the hardness levels to at least 250 ppm to ease the osmoregulation function and allow the bloating and pineconing to subside as much as possible. Do you have crushed corals in your tank?

Your water changes totally depend on your water parameters. More often than not, clean water is the best solution. It's for this reason having an API liquid test kit is a very good idea.

In the meantime, please acquire metromeds or metronidazole. You need to feed your fish with metro especially as it still has appetite. Feed the metro based food for five consecutive days. Do you make gel foods? If not, please let me know so I can forward you a recipe along with metronidazole as one of its ingredients.

Adding a teaspoon per gallon of pure sodium chloride will also help here. If your water is a little soft, then we'll need a bowl or two of crushed corals to help elevate the hardness levels.

Keep your water as well aerated as possible. The temperature should remain at least 78-80 degrees Fahrenheit only. Do not go beyond that point.

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Can we have a picture :)

Usually dropsy is on both sides.

As for the Metro food you can either get: Jungle AntiParasitic food (from Drs.Foster and Smith and most Petstores) or MetroMeds (from GoldfishConnection)

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Guest kbusschau

The store was fish/aquarium store that used drops in 6 little vials. I use the test stripes and wanted to make sure I was not getting false info so took water in.

They prescribed the metronidazole which she had a 5 day course of as they thought that would help her and mentioned possible dropsy could be the problem as well. The metronidazole did not seem to change her condition so that's when I got on this forum. I will go get API test kit today (hopefully that tests your J and GH.

I did not have crushed coral in my tank, just an inch of gravel, which I'm thinking maybe I should remove (?)

The 10 gal tupperware 'hospital' is only treated tap water with the epsom salt. The eclipse filter/pump is for 10 gal tank. The heater did not raise the temp above 78 after adjusting it to 80 last night (hard to turn) so will replace heater today as well.

She's swimming around a little more and perked up when I came into the room.

I don't feed her gel foods -- a recipe would be appreciated.

Still need to find someone that can walk me through getting pic in iPhone to on this post.

Will report back later.

Thanks much, Kristin (and Wanda)

Hi,

Please let your store elaborate what "perfect" is. Let them write down the exact results and note what test kit they used. I'm personally not very convinced by their false assurance. If possible, can you invest an API liquid test kit for yourself so you can see the results as accurate as possible? In my opinion, it would be better if you do. They may be using test strips that could contribute to the unreliability of the results.

Please test your KH (carbonate hardness) and GH (general hardness) as well. With dropsy, we need to adjust the hardness levels to at least 250 ppm to ease the osmoregulation function and allow the bloating and pineconing to subside as much as possible. Do you have crushed corals in your tank?

Your water changes totally depend on your water parameters. More often than not, clean water is the best solution. It's for this reason having an API liquid test kit is a very good idea.

In the meantime, please acquire metromeds or metronidazole. You need to feed your fish with metro especially as it still has appetite. Feed the metro based food for five consecutive days. Do you make gel foods? If not, please let me know so I can forward you a recipe along with metronidazole as one of its ingredients.

Adding a teaspoon per gallon of pure sodium chloride will also help here. If your water is a little soft, then we'll need a bowl or two of crushed corals to help elevate the hardness levels.

Keep your water as well aerated as possible. The temperature should remain at least 78-80 degrees Fahrenheit only. Do not go beyond that point.

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Guest kbusschau

Can we have a picture :)

Usually dropsy is on both sides.

As for the Metro food you can either get: Jungle AntiParasitic food (from Drs.Foster and Smith and most Petstores) or MetroMeds (from GoldfishConnection)

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Guest kbusschau

This was the only way I could find to add photo from iPhone -- really grainy -- sorry -- can't see the pine-cone look, but you can see the bulge and also the air sack that formed around the eyes.

Does this help at all?

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Guest kbusschau

Sorry photo didn't take -- shown on forum as webkit-fake-url ????

I did get from iPhone to iPhoto as .jpg file and even went into site for advice on how to download photo. Do not have url (?) or more than 100 posts that looks like (at least at one time) was required in order to post photo.

Still working on it though.

Going to get new heater, bubble wand, and testing kit at fish store.

Will check back later

Kristin

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You can download the Photobucket app from the App Store and use that to move pictures from your iPhone to a photobucket account. Then just follow the instructions for posting from photobucket.

If you could please write down the EXACT NUMBERS from your test results. "Perfect" is not helpful unless we know the numbers that go along with it.

LET"S NOT TALK ABOUT MEDICATION RIGHT NOW

Let's first find out if your water could be the culprit. Keeping water clean and clear will help most problems.

DO NOT ADD SALT WITH EPSOM SALT!!!!!!!!!!

Use one or the other, NOT BOTH!

Right now, since you have the Epsom in there, I would keep that in for NO MORE than 8 days. Daily water changes can be done, and are recommended if you do not have a cycled filter running on your tank/tub. Just remember to add back ONLY the amount you took out. Honestly, the easiest way to make sure you aren't overdosing on Epsom is to do 100% water changes.

Hopefully we can get a picture, because that will really narrow down what we might be dealing with :)

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Thanks all.

Created Photobucket account and think the album contains 2 photos of Wanda in her tupperware hospital -- one of her bulge on side (although it does not really show the pinecone look I see when up close (they are not really sticking out, they just look thicker or more pronounced). The other pic shows the air sac looking things that are just behind her eyes -- that happened a couple months ago but didn't think it was a bad thing because her wen also got a little bigger.

I just put in a new heater and bubble wand in her tupperware hospital container and turned heater up to 80 degrees. Is it OK if she hasn't eaten much -- Some of the 4 chopped-up peas are gone but not all of it.

The following are results from testing the water from the 29 gal tank Wanda was in that did have small amount of aquarium salt, Amquel and Novaquel to treat water, and also 9 day's worth of metrodozale and kanymcin from fish store. (hopefully that hasn't skeued the results). I did not mix aquarium salt and epsom salt

Once a week, I do a 40% water change. Once a month, I change charcoal filter, add Cycle, vacuum gravel.

Using API Master Kit

pH 7.8

ammonia .25 ppm

nitrite .25 ppm

nitrate 10 ppm

Using Quick Dip stick for the following as it was not in kit, but I had on the 8-test strips:

hardness 300 GH (range)

alkalinity 80 KH (range)

pH 7.8

These water results above are not from the 10 gal tub she's in now with only Amquel and 1/4t epsom salt -- not aquarium salt in this. The eclipse biowheel was dry when I set up this hospital tank but at one time was from a fully cycled tank. Maybe the bacteria can be revived (??)

Plan to do 25% water change every day (?)

Pics of Wanda I hope come through below -- please let me know if these 2 pics are not accessible -- thanks much:

http://s1180.photobu...x401/kbusschau/

Edited by kbusschau
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Guest kbusschau

Can we have a picture :)

Usually dropsy is on both sides.

As for the Metro food you can either get: Jungle AntiParasitic food (from Drs.Foster and Smith and most Petstores) or MetroMeds (from GoldfishConnection)

I just posted 5pm (MT) on 10/10/10.

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Guest kbusschau

Wanda not doing well -- took a dive. After I put the bubble wand in there for increased aeration, she started to float upside down and now she is barely moving. Is that a sign her end is near? I'm so sad if she is in pain or angst. She starts up and tries to swim when she hears my voice, but now she just moves her fins when she hears me talk to her. Peas went by unnoticed. Checked the thermometer and water is only 78 degrees, so can't be it's too warm.

I so hope it's just resting and repairing. She's just been the most fun and personable so I hope there's still hope,

Kristin

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I really think you need to do more water changes as well. Any trace amounts of ammonia and nitrites are going to be hard on her here. But be gentle and make sure that the PH and temps. match. I can't see the picture well enough to see if her scales are actually sticking out. Can you see the edges of her scales like a pinecone?

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Ok, good news. This does not sound like dropsy AT ALL. So that's good.

However, floating upside down is not good.

Like Amy said, you need to be doing water change to get ALL NITRITE AND AMMONIA out of the water. That may mean you need to do a 50% or even 100% water change every day. That's completely fine. Just make sure the temperature and the pH are matched (what is the pH from your tap, please?)

Try to get her to eat some peas. But if she doesn't take them, it's not horrible. Goldfish can go for at least a week without food and be fine. I don't recommend fasting for this long, but if she's not eating, we still have time.

Also try getting some garlic juice (or making your own) and soaking the peas in that. Goldfish love garlic.

There is always still hope, hun. Don't give up on her now.

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Guest kbusschau

I'm not going to give up on Wanda for sure. It just scared me to see her not moving and upside down for hours. She has since arighted herself again. She is not in the 29 gal tank that the test results were on, that's where she came out of. She's in hospital tank that only has treated water with the epsom salt dose. I can do 25% water changes every day -- is that enough for the hospital tank? Temp in hospital tank is 78 degrees -- have new heater set at 82 degrees and it has not risen from 78 all day.

I will do a 100% water change on the 29 gal tank and hope that the bacteria in the biowheel will help cycle the new water and test the pH of my tap water. Should I remove the gravel as some suggest?

I will soak peas in minced garlic and hope that helps.

If not dropsy, why is she so swollen and listless? If it's an infection, wouldn't the 9day med regime she was on have fixed that? Do fish get tumors? Could it be fungal? She's not been around another fish to be pregnant.

To answer a question previously sent, her scales are not sticking out like some of the pics I've seen on this forum, but they are not flat like they used to be, more like they're bulging a bit. There's also an almost undetectable scale that looks a little bloody on the side that's more bulged out.

So HAPPY to hear it might not be dropsy -- that what the fish place said it could be and then mentioned it was usually fatal. I just wasn't going to take that without doing anything, so came onto this forum. THANKS so much for the help and support. Will let you know how she's doing in the morning before I go to work.

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I would do more than just 25% on your QT tank. If there is no filter in there (which it sounds like there's not) do a 100% WC EVERY DAY. It won't harm the fish, as long as you make sure the temperature and pH are matched.

78*F sounds fine. Don't try to mess too much with the heater because turning it up may suddenly turn it into over drive and make the water HOT instead of just warm.

I would remove the gravel in small chunks. Only about 1/4 of it at a time. You will be amazed at how much gunk is in that gravel! Get your vacuum handy!

There are many reasons that she could be swollen. And eggs is still a definitely possibility. Fish don't get "pregnant" they lay eggs, and they will produce eggs regardless of whether or not there is a male in the same tank (or even the same house!) so don't rule that out.

I think this may be just a case of constipation, like I said. So in that case, no med would have helped. Peas and other veggies should help this out. You can even boil some peas, shell them and push one little grain of Epsom salt into half a pea. That will help her move along the blockage.

Fish do get tumors, but they don't look like this. And I highly doubt it is fungal.

Keep us updated.

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Guest kbusschau

Sorry to report that Wanda died overnight.

I had said my goodbyes and reminded her how much she was loved, just in case.

Thanks again for your support.

Sincerely, the Kristin who loved little Wanda.

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