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Right When I Think All Is Fine And Dandy...


Kateana

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Hey guys,

I've got a problem with Ducky :krazy: , and I have no idea as to what it may be, so I'm hoping someone here may know what it is. Pictures will be up ASAP, as my battery is dead and now re-charging a bit. :glare:

I noticed just now, actually, that the first 5 holes on his lateral line seem "clogged". Each scale they're on is raised, but not in a pineconing fashion, more like a welt. As well, there is white fuzzy stuff sticking out of each hole. These are the first 5 nearest to the head. Nothing seems red yet, just swollen abnormally and with the white stuff present. Is it possible for a fungus to attack the lateral line? I'm pretty sure (and praying to God :please) that it is'nt Dropsey. I will have water params up with the pics ASAP, as stated earlier. I'm really scrambling for time...

I feel as though I should also not that I noticed alot of fine particulates in the water column. It does'nt seem to be effecting Kana at all, and I don't see as many fine particulates in my Common/Comet aquarium. I just did a w/c this morning and it's strange that Ducky did'nt have this swelling then. It honestly just popped up out of nowhere! :blink:

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try and check your filters, and maybe add some filter floss? maybe another w/c is in order. it seems that something is irritating him?

maybe try and take the salt up to 0.1% for now. maybe someone has experience with such spots.

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Yes :exactly

I agree with Federica swish your filters in some old tank water and get any gunk out. I'll check the forums because I remember this happening to someone else.

Edit: It happened to Sakura's pretty yoshi. Here is the thread here Lateral Line

Edited by Haruka
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Tay, I think it was Sakura that had this with Isis, however, in her case I don't think the lateral line was fungussy - more like spots?

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Tay, I think it was Sakura that had this with Isis, however, in her case I don't think the lateral line was fungussy - more like spots?

Yes she said the spots were raised up and trinket advised .2% salt. I'll re-read that thread and maybe when Sakura gets on I can give her a PM?

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Thanks for the comments Tay and Federica! Good to hear from you guys. I checked out the link you gave me Tay, and it sounds alot like my problem, concerning the lateral line. I was bummed to see she erased the photos of it though from her Photobucket. :( Now all I have to compare with is her verbal account and description. Anyway, I could try and clean up my sponge filters, as I have no HOB or power filters for that tank. Does anyone think all my nasty algae could be irritating him/causing bacterial broblems? I've still got tons of icky brown algae in my tank, even though it's pretty much cycled and the green algae has really started to take off (I noticed Kana and Ducky nommed on it :wub: ) I have'nt really cleaned the whole tank to get rid of the brown algae because (a it's super thick in certain places and (b I'm moving to VT this month and figured I'll clean it when I break it all down for the move. All I clean is the front glass so I can see clearly into the aquarium. I can try and clean up the sponge filters, I'd just hate to do so 'cause it wil screw up my delicate Nitrate bb. I would also like to note that in a bit of a panic, I gave him one pellet of MM's. I hope this was'nt a wrong move, I was (and still am) pretty scared for him. I absolutely hate the idea of giving him antibiotics, but I figured just try one and it could save his life. :(

Now, on to the params and pictures.

By the way, how can I have Ammonia showing up when I have no Nitrite/Nitrate? This makes no sense to me. Before I used Prime and tested my water earlier this month, I never had Ammonia readings.

[*]Ammonia Level-0-.25ppm

[*]Nitrite Level-0ppm

[*]Nitrate level-0ppm

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)-8.2

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)-7.8

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops-API Master Test Kit Drops

[*]Water temperature-72-74F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running-29 Tall, 5-6 months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)-two sponge filters and a airstone

[*]How often do you change the water and how much-Every morning, 50-60%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size-Two, Ducky=nearly 3", Kana=nearly 4" (measured nose to tail, not peduncle)

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners-Prime, 5-10 drops

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often-Pro Gold=2 pellets per fish per day, Frozen Bloodworms=3 per fish every other day.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank-No.

[*]Any medications added to the tank-No.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus-The first 5 lateral line holes are "swollen" and oozing white fuzzy stuff.[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.-No.

Pictures:

Now, I'm expecting some or all of you to say he looks prickly, perhaps beginning to Dropsey, but I can assure you I've been scrutinizing him like a hawk for weeks now and have'nt noticed a change. I'm honestly not sure if he's always been that way or not. As time goes on I become more and more of a paranoid goldie mom, so I can't tell if it's always been like that. I have to admit that Kana's scales are much, much smoother looking, but Ducky's spine at the least has always been "prickly" looking. His scales as well have always generally been "armored" looking and thick. Idk.

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Edited by Kateana
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okey I understand the scales that worry you. However, I have 2 fish with more 'defined' shapes. Just keep an eye on them :)

as for the brown algae it ALWAYS causes little fungus spots on my fish, so DEF clean it. I would scrub it down while you syphon so you can suck up all the gunk right away.

yea check the filters. your tank isn't cycled? You have no nitrates? Keep an eye on the ammo, especially for a sickly fish.

I would start with the 0.1% salt and go up to 0.2% in 12hrs. If you don't feel it is helping you can go up to 0.3% in a couple of days :)

As for the filtration, maybe you should think of getting an HOB? I am just not too into sponge filters for goldies other than fry. Like internal filters I always feel like the goldies are swimming in their poop :(

Also, I think Sakura swabbed the spots with HP. You can do that if you feel comfortable enough. Otherwise just let the salt take care of it.

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Hey Kateana, those spots and the raised scales look pretty much exactly like what all of my fish had going on before they eventually died. If I were you, this is what I'd do:

1. Absolutely separate Ducky. If this is similar to what my fish had, it's extremely contagious and hard (if not impossible) to cure. So it's imperative that you separate him asap. You want to limit his exposure to Kana as much as you can.

2. Do a 100% temp and pH matched water change on your main tank that Kana is in to get rid of as much bad bacteria in there as possible. Also swish out the filter media in dechlorinated water.

3. I would keep going with the metromeds for Ducky. That's what I was going to suggest using anyways, so IMO it's not bad that you started those.

4. It might be a good idea to raise the heat up to 78 (as long as you have lots of surface agitation) and I would definitely add salt at a .1% concentration. (1 Tablespoon per 10 gallons or 1 teaspoon per gallon, same thing) The salt helps with osmoregulation when the kidneys are in a weakened state, which is often the case with dropsy.

5. Keep a close eye on Kana and if she develops this same thing, consider treating her with metromeds as well, as long as Ducky has responded well to that treatment.

The .25 ammonia is going to be very stressful on these fish, since they are already sick and/or exposed to this sickness. So watch the ammonia like a hawk and do as many water changes as necessary to keep it under .25 at all times. Also use extra Prime to neutralize it.

EDIT: I had a closer look, and it appears you think he is not dropsied? Either way, you need to continue the mm's now that you started them anyways. I don't think that's a bad thing though because these spots could indicate a bacterial infection. Increasing the salt to .2 or .3 as Federica was suggesting shouldn't hurt anything. And I totally agree, you should really get an HOB filter. Those sponge filters alone aren't nearly powerful enough for the amount of waste goldfish produce, but when used in combination with HOB's they are great. I think if you get one or two HOB's you will see the particulates decrease greatly.

Edited by Sakura
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Thanks for the replies Federica and Sakura.

About the algae, I'm starting to think it would be a good idea if I just tear down the whole aquarium today and scrub the h*ll out of it to get it sparkling again. That algae really worries me, especially now that Ducky is sick. I'll clean up the sponge filters a bit and try to invest in a HOB from Marineland ASAP. I really like their filtration systems. I'll keep going with the MM's then and probably go to GC to get some Jump Start for when I stop the MM's (if he makes it). You guys think it's good to get the Jump Start? GC states that it helps his bacterial colony reform in his gut because they get destroyed by the antibiotics. What do you think? Federica, I'm glad to hear you have some kids with the "defined" scales, this relieves me a bit. ;) Though I certainly won't stop keeping him closely observed. I'm going to try and do QT with him, I just have to look for a extra tub and stuff. I don't think I'l be able to raise his temperature, I don't have a extra heater available. The only way it may be increased is if I move him downstairs, where the ambient temp is always 74F, whereas in my room the temperature dips from 73F in the day to 64F at night. I'll see what I can do. My nerves are pretty shaken right now, especially when hearing the severity of Sakura's account with this seemingly similar illness. I hope I don't lose Ducky... :(

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I don't think you have what Sakura's fish had. Hers had dropsy, yours don't. And instead of the fungus, Isis had redder bumps on her lateral line.

I do think the scales is a ranchu thing. My baby Ranchu, Blondie, has the same scales (she is also very similar in color and built as Ducky :) )

Don't panik, I think in your case it's more of an irritation from the particles in the water. A good HOB or 2 will help this out for sure. :) And the salt will help ease the irritation.

I always use the JumpStart after the Metro or other meds. I like it :)

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By algae do you mean green algae or brown diatoms? Green algae is no health risk at all for your fish, don't worry about scrubbing that off. But if it's brown, I'd definitely scrub it off.

Federica, the white bumps are more similar to what my fish had than I think you realize. I had three fish who all had white bumps/growth type things coming out of the lateral line. They were slightly different looking for all three fish, for example Isis had more red surrounding the bumps, but Fuu did not. It varies from fish to fish in my experience.

Kateana, I think you should PM Imo. I think she'd have some insights here that would be really helpful for Ducky. :)

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I had just seen the picture of Isis' ones, and those were not fluffy looking. :idont

I agree, the green algae can be home to bacteria and such. But you shouldn't have to tear down the tank to clean it off, I think a scrubber will do the trick, it usually comes off quite easily :)

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I had just seen the picture of Isis' ones, and those were not fluffy looking. :idont

I agree, the green algae can be home to bacteria and such. But you shouldn't have to tear down the tank to clean it off, I think a scrubber will do the trick, it usually comes off quite easily :)

Did you mean to say the brown algae can be a home to bacteria?

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Cant say much since my phone(have no other internet) doesnt want to load your pictures or even the smileys for that matter but if its only happening on the lateral line then it might be hole in the head which is more accurately called head and lateral line erosion. He so the salt should help. It may also be cotton fungus but cant see so your talking to a blind doctor. It doesnt sound like dropsy which one of my fish died from several months ago. :-( Thats before i had phone internet to get help. Dropsy generaly hits the hole body with puffiness not just the lateral line. Id post pics but cant from my phone

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Kateana scrubbing it down would be a good idea. I am also in a battle against brown algae and it's a pain. Definitely separate her like the others have suggested.

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I don't think you have what Sakura's fish had. Hers had dropsy, yours don't. And instead of the fungus, Isis had redder bumps on her lateral line.

I do think the scales is a ranchu thing. My baby Ranchu, Blondie, has the same scales (she is also very similar in color and built as Ducky :) )

Don't panik, I think in your case it's more of an irritation from the particles in the water. A good HOB or 2 will help this out for sure. :) And the salt will help ease the irritation.

I always use the JumpStart after the Metro or other meds. I like it :)

Yeah, I'm starting to think the same about the Ranchu's and their scaling. I keep looking at him from above and the more I think about it, the more normal it becomes...

He's probably thinking "Dude, why's this lady always staring at me?" :teehee

By algae do you mean green algae or brown diatoms? Green algae is no health risk at all for your fish, don't worry about scrubbing that off. But if it's brown, I'd definitely scrub it off.

Federica, the white bumps are more similar to what my fish had than I think you realize. I had three fish who all had white bumps/growth type things coming out of the lateral line. They were slightly different looking for all three fish, for example Isis had more red surrounding the bumps, but Fuu did not. It varies from fish to fish in my experience.

Kateana, I think you should PM Imo. I think she'd have some insights here that would be really helpful for Ducky. :)

Oh, brown diatom, for sure! It's insane, probably because my aquarium gets large pieces of direct morning sunlight because some of my blinds fell off their track. :rolleyes: I think brown diatom algae is enough to drive any aquarist absolutely mad. As a note to all, I did tear the aquarium down and scrubbed it like a maniac. I even had to use a razor blade for most of it. The base of the algae patches had become calcified to the aquarium walls/floor! There was just so much. The water became completely brown and I could'nt even see through it. I really should have taken a picture of it- :wall -it's hard to explain the thickness of it. In some parts the brown algae seemed to be almost black! I betchya that was harboring some nasty stuff. Anyway, Ducky and Kana were put in a tub for the cleaning with their airstone and sponge filter. I added a really nice ceramic airstone to their newly cleaned aquarium so now they'll have lots and lots of bubbles *yay*. I'm probably going to go to the petstore tomorrow and get a HOB. Ducky's bumps have lost the white since I gave him his MM pellet earlier today, but I can't quite tell if the swelling has decreased any. Now where the white "puffs" were oozing there is redness thinly encircling the lateral line holes. Just the first 4-5, of course, not the whole line.

Did you mean PM Trinket?

Cant say much since my phone(have no other internet) doesnt want to load your pictures or even the smileys for that matter but if its only happening on the lateral line then it might be hole in the head which is more accurately called head and lateral line erosion. He so the salt should help. It may also be cotton fungus but cant see so your talking to a blind doctor. It doesnt sound like dropsy which one of my fish died from several months ago. :-( Thats before i had phone internet to get help. Dropsy generaly hits the hole body with puffiness not just the lateral line. Id post pics but cant from my phone

I know for sure it's not Dropsey, I've dealt with that before. :(

Kateana scrubbing it down would be a good idea. I am also in a battle against brown algae and it's a pain. Definitely separate her like the others have suggested.

Oh man, I feel for you Tay! It's some vicious stuff is'nt it? Best of luck to you in the war :D

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Wow YUCK! Then for sure it was something in that algae. You really have to scrub it off while it is still thin. Yuck.

I think the salt will do the trick and the MMs will help prevent any infection. Some fish are just way more sensitive to it. One of my Ryukins gets fungus on his tail as soon as the tank isn't spotless. Ugh.

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For the brown algae you'll want to have lots of light so you can get the green algae. Brown algae takes time to disappear trust me I've been soo frustrated, but I'm starting to get some green. You might want to try adding live plants too.

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I haven't had time to read the whole thread but I did notice something about the prime. Make sure you are using two drops per gallon when conditioning the water. So if you were to do a 50% water change, you would need at least 30 drops :)

Edited by ashlee18
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Wow YUCK! Then for sure it was something in that algae. You really have to scrub it off while it is still thin. Yuck.

I think the salt will do the trick and the MMs will help prevent any infection. Some fish are just way more sensitive to it. One of my Ryukins gets fungus on his tail as soon as the tank isn't spotless. Ugh.

I know right!? It was horrendous. I've gotten so used to seeing all the algae that now I think my tank looks kind of strange all sparkly and bare. :D I feel alot better now though, hopefully all will subside. I'd hate more than anything to lose my Ducky. And if he survives, I so hope he's better before we have to move. Traveling three days with a sick fish is not a good idea. :(

For the brown algae you'll want to have lots of light so you can get the green algae. Brown algae takes time to disappear trust me I've been soo frustrated, but I'm starting to get some green. You might want to try adding live plants too.

The sad part is I was starting to develop a nice patch of green algae. It looked so pretty, but I ended up taking most of it down because the brown diatom algae had grown throughout most of it here-and-there. I will definitely be adding live plants after I move. Kana and Ducky were supposed to move into the 55 if all goes well with them concerning the move, and I was going to keep it barebottom, but have nice clumps of Java Fern on driftwood. :)

Did you mean PM Trinket?

Yep, I meant Trinket, sorry! Imo is her real name :)

:teehee That's what I thought. I've seen you mention that phrase before and connected it with Trinket, good to know now! Thanks Sakura.

I haven't had time to read the whole thread but I did notice something about the prime. Make sure you are using two drops per gallon when conditioning the water. So if you were to do a 50% water change, you would need at least 30 drops :)

Sounds good, thanks for the imput ashlee18. :)

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