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Noodles Is Pineconing :(


j0shua

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 10

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.6

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.6

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Freshwater Master Test Kit

[*]Water temperature? 27 Celcius

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? They were in a 10g temp tank for the past 3 weeks as I had to move the 29g around. filters running for about 4 months. Noodles is now in a 6g hospital tub. No gravel in any, no decorations either.

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Aquaclear 50, Eheim 2213, sponge filter

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 30% twice weekly

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 2, about 1" bodylength

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Nutrafin Aqua Plus

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Twice daily, small amounts. They have been on Jungle AP for three days/week starting Mondays for past 3 weeks.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No

[*]Any medications added to the tank? They are week 4 of Prazi treatment, which goes in on Mondays too.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Pineconing :(

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc? Noodles was bottom sitting a lot

Sigh.

After losing Pumpkin and Ponyo to dropsy, now Noodles has started to pinecone.

Noodles and Dumpling were in the 10g temp tank as I was prepping the 29g stand. They've been in there for about 3 weeks. They get twice weekly 30% water changes and bottom vacs. They have filtration for the 29g with them too, but the Aquaclear 50 is turned down to half. They were doing fine, and Dumpling is still fine, active and eating well. Noodles, on the other hand, has been bottom sitting lately, and just laying down without moving much. He'd perk up instantly when he'd see me, and swim around a fair bit before heading back down.

They've gone through 3 weeks of Prazi, this is their 4th. They're also on week 4 of Jungle AP (first 3 days a week). But on Saturday, Noodles' scales started raising, so I moved him into the 6g hospital with the sponge filter that I washed in tank water. Also dosed with Epsom salt at a rate of 1/8tsp to 5g. I have an unopened pack of MediFood from GF Utopia, which appears to be the same as MetroMeds in terms of ingredients - metronidazole, ormetoprim-sulfa and oxytetracycline (ordered it for Pumpkin and Ponyo but it didn't make it in time, sadly). Noodles has had the first day of the med food, and he snapped it up immediately.

This morning his scales looked a bit more raised (although not super full blown pineconing yet - not like how Pumpkin was before she passed) but he was really listless and struggled to eat. I dropped food in front of him, which he took, but he didn't bother with the ones nearby, which he would've the day before. The water had a bad smell to it, which wasn't there last night, so I did a quick 50% change before rushing out. He did poo a bit, which I removed. Tested for ammonia and nitrites, both returned as zero. Matched PH(7.6) and temp (27C) before I filled (water was left overnight).

It'll take a few days of MediFood for him to get better I believe, but wondering why he ended up worse off this morning. Any pointers?

Edited to add that they were on AP food/Prazi cos both were gasping at the surface a lot, and I never treated them for parasites until the Prazi and food got shipped to me, and the LFS tank they came from had some sick fish.

Thanks.

Edited by j0shua
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The bad smell in the water rings alarm bells and spells bacteria to me rather than parasites.Its a shame they had the AP food as a second dose of meds usually weakens the fish and can damage the kidneys which may be part of whats hapening here. Damaged kidneys causes dropsy because the fish cannot expel gases and waste properly.

Anyway, I think you are doing all you possibly can for now. I would increase the epsom amount (double what you are doing...no more) and make sure the tank he is in is a) loaded with bubbles and oxygen saturation and b) check those water params daily...an uncycled hospital tank is really not a happy camp for a dropsied fish :(

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Thanks Trinket. The bad smell is always a bad thing, Ponyo had that before he went and we detected it too late :(

I'll proceed with the MediFood for a 14 day run, and hope he lasts that long.

I'll also increase aeration and do 1/4tsp Epsom per 5g of water.

The sponge filter has been in their tank for close to a month, so I think there is some BB colonization there to help keep ammo/nitrites down. I will still do 50% daily changes, possibly even 2x 30% daily changes.

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Sounds like a plan!

As long as he is still eating there is a good chance of recovery from dropsy. Best of luck. Hang in, we are here to discuss whats next if he gets worse :)

(oops sorry Lupin!!I)

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No, it's okay, Trinx. I was a bit slow trying to reassess this and then office work lagging me further. Had to erase it since I don't want to interrupt your own assessment on this as you're handling this anyway. Nice to see you again here though.:)

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Thanks for helping out, too, Lupin.

Just got home, found Noodles on the bottom, upside-down next to the filter. He's struggling, his breathing is shallow. He's really weak, he's having trouble swimming around and cannot right himself. Scales are not as raised anymore, they've gone down a bit, and he looks gaunt. But I fear he may not be able to fight for very much longer :(

Going to move him to a fresh tub of water now.

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oh dear, it doesn't sound too good, the sudden thin ness after dropsying. Is this just the same as how Ponyo was?

Is he being swayed by the current and sucked into the filter?

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oh dear, it doesn't sound too good, the sudden thin ness after dropsying. Is this just the same as how Ponyo was?

Is he being swayed by the current and sucked into the filter?

No, not good at all. He's extremely weak now. Floating upside down. It wasn't like this with Ponyo. Ponyo pineconed very suddenly and died shortly after, and never got thinner or floated upside down, but just bottom-sat.

Noodles can't seem to hold food in, and spits it out almost immediately. His breathing is strained and he's struggling. I found him next to the sponge filter, maybe it drew him in a bit. He does get swayed by any current, and he doesn't have the strength to fight it :(

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Noodles didn't make it.

He was a little rocket boy, and would swim all over the tank as fast as he could.

He'd do his little hello dance, where he would slowly float up to the surface at the front of the tank, and dive straight down as fast as he could, wiggling away. And he'd do it again and again until he'd be distracted by food. And he taught Dumpling how to do the hello dance too.

He was so observant, he'd see me from across the room and perk up. He'd sense my motion and would look up immediately.

And he'd be so fast to snatch the food that just a few days ago I was wondering why he kept on missing the pellet and swimming right by it.

He was bottom sitting a lot but I didn't really imagine it'll turn out like this so fast. Even last night, a bit more than 24 hours ago, he was snatching up the MediFood I dropped in.

He's buried now next to Ponyo and Pumpkin, in the garden under a smaller flowerpot.

I'm sorry I couldn't save you, little buddy. Sleep well.

4814237349_f4c2f77e0f.jpg

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Aww, I am sorry about Noodles. He looks like he was quite a sweet boy. He sounds like my fish and his personality....Always makes it harder when you are attached to how funny/sweet they are. Perhaps he taught mine the happy dance at one time too :)

RIP Nood's

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Thanks for your kind words.

I noticed something before I moved Noodles out to the hospital tank.

He was bottom sitting on the filter intake side, a few inches from the intake itself.

Then before I went to bed I had a peek at them.

Dumpling had made his way from the opposite side of the tank, where he normally sleeps floating mid-tank, and had put himself next to Noodles on the bottom, like side-by-side and touching, and stayed there the whole night. Strange.

Dumpling's fine tho, whatever caused Noodles to dropsy hasn't seemed to affect Dumpling. He's active, swimming, sleeping mid-tank again, eating... I decided to skip the last Prazi dose and keep the UV on nonstop (even before Prazi it was on for about 8 hours/day). I've also taken him off the AP food just in case, Trinket's comment about second doses and kidney failure had me worried.

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Im so sorry Joshua :(

But you really did everything you could. And the sponge filter is gentle for sick fish so being beside the filter would not have hurt him.

It is a curious thing how fish will sit by a friend fish like that when they are sick, its very sweet.

Im sorry to worry you, it was just a point to bear in mind. After a course of antibiotics it is best if the fish have time to recover their gutflora and renew their immune strength before taking another course of meds. If its possible.

I really hope Dumpling continues to thrive and be strong for you, it is a horrible useless feeling when we lose a fishpet.

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Thanks for you help, Trinket. Appreciate it.

I was very surprised to see Dumpling sit by Noodles, he nudged right in next to him. They've been tank buddies since the LFS, so it must've been sad for Dumpling to see his buddy unwell.

I understand your concern about the meds, I wasn't aware of it before. Now that I am, I will take extra care. I've moved Dumpling onto the NLS Thera A food, the one with garlic, to help him out a bit, and will give him peas tonight.

Thanks again!

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