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Herman's Ichy Home


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Pssst! Do you think you can help Lola?

Herman is starting to get fed up I'm afraid. We are on day #3 of the ich, and getting better I believe. I'm using a heater to keep the temp around 80-82 degrees with gravel vacuuming daily. He was inundated with white spots on Sunday, and today looks like this:

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I did notice, however a few red streaks on his tail fin today:

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I worked all last night, and was about 3 hours late with his water change. When I walked into the room, he was sitting on the bottom of the tank until he saw me (he's a bit of a pig and comes up the the top of the tank when he sees us). While he was swimming, I noticed hit tail was floating higher than the rest of his body, as if he was having trouble keeping his bottom down. I tried not to look worried, and went ahead with his water change. I added salt with his water change yesterday to equal 1 tsp per gallon, and did the same today. After I added the salt, it was as if I gave him the elixir of life! He was all better, and has been. Still trying to eat my fingers when I test the water, and gobbled up the couple of crisps I gave him this evening.

Here is his house until I can find a better permanent home for him: (I know he has too much gravel, I'm slowly reducing the amount with each water change and I'm thinking too many plants?)

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Here is his info before water change:

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? zero

[*]Nitrite Level? zero

[*]Nitrate level? zero

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? pH:7.2, GH 25 ppm, KH 0-40 ppm

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? pH 7.8, GH 75 ppm, KH 80 ppm

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Jungle Quick Dip 5-N-1 strips, Mardel Mini Master Ammonia test tube

[*]Water temperature? 80-82 degrees F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 5 gallon for 1 week (I'm now very aware this is not a good setup, working to fix)

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Came with the tank. I've looked everywhere for specs and GPH in the instructions and info sheets without success.

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Daily, 50-75%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 red cap oranda, 2 1/2 inches?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? API Stress Coat

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? twice daily, very small pinch of soaked Tetra Fin Gold Fish Crisps

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No

[*]Any medications added to the tank? No

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? diminishing Ich, today noticed red streaks on his tail fins

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Bottom sitting and tail floating as mentioned above

I am also adding Top Fin Bacteria Supplement with each change. I'm wondering if this is necessary.

Here is the water info after the water change today:

[*]Ammonia Level? zero

[*]Nitrite Level? zero

[*]Nitrate level? zero

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? pH 6.8, GH 25 ppm, KH 0-40 ppm

I also have some things I'm unsure of:

Is it a good thing to continue to add bacteria solution with every daily water change?

Should I only be giving Herman salt daily to help his gill/overall stress, or should I attempt to maintain a 0.3% salt solution until the symptoms are clear, and if so for how long after?

Am I feeding him too much? 2-3 soaked crisps twice daily

Should I be adding extra Stress Coat to help him will all of this ich/stress/water change thing?

I'm noticing a trend in decreasing pH and, GH and KH. While I'm starting to understand, is there something I'm doing wrong in my plan of care for my little patient?

I'm quite sure this is the longest and most detailed post I've ever composed in a forum, and apologize for the sheer volume of questions and lack of personal knowledge! While I have a pretty good handle on caring for sick humans, sick fish are very new to me and I'm hoping to get this guy on the road to happiness while looking for his larger home and/or in between home.

Thanks in advance!!!

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He may be getting floaty from the crisps. Do you have the ingredients on the back of it?

I wouldn't put in the bacteria because it is very hard to cycle a 5 gallon tank, :D Save it for your future tank. And most of the time these bacterial supplements do not work unless they are refrigerated to slow down the bacteria's life cycle.

I would only keep up the salt until all of the ich is gone for good, and then slowly take it out.

See if you can get some Prime or Amquel water conditioner instead of the stress coat, it could have some additives in it that might not be good for the fish.

The red streaks are probably because ammonia is present in the tank and it is not showing up on the dip strips. Prime or amquel will neutralize any ammonia in the tank that's not showing up.

Would you be able to buy any crushed coral at all? This will help buffer your water so the pH and KH will stop dropping.

:D Don't worry asking questions is perfectly fine and encouraged. :D Please feel to ask as many questions as your heart desires. :D we're al in it together. You're doing very very well.

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Lola, you are doing great!

Haruka has given you some excellent advice.

I would not worry about having to many plants, at least not with the few you've got now. As long as he has lots of room to swim he'll be alright and probably appreciates the coverage.

If possible, you could you bump his water changes up to twice daily?

Even if you only have time to do a 25% change in the morning, and keep up with your 50%-75% changes you are already doing, it would help!

You may have ammonia building that the test strips aren't picking up, and as always, when in doubt WATER CHANGE! Hehe. I'm not sure what the people-care equivalent of a water change is, but they can never hurt (as long as they are temperature matched, PH matched and dechlorinated!)and are usually the first thing we suggest when people are having fish problems.

PS: That first picture is CUTE!

Edited by Iheartfishies1172
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Just want to mention to make sure not to go over 0.3 salt - it is too high for goldies :) also, once ALL the spots are gone, keep the salt in one extra week to make sure you kill all the free swimmers.

You are doing a fab job!

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I am so happy to report ole' Herman is doing so much better! He's got his sass back. His dorsal fin is no longer droopin' and he's no longer tail floating. Thanks you guys!

He may be getting floaty from the crisps. Do you have the ingredients on the back of it?

I do: please find them here.

I wouldn't put in the bacteria because it is very hard to cycle a 5 gallon tank, :D Save it for your future tank. And most of the time these bacterial supplements do not work unless they are refrigerated to slow down the bacteria's life cycle.

I would only keep up the salt until all of the ich is gone for good, and then slowly take it out.

See if you can get some Prime or Amquel water conditioner instead of the stress coat, it could have some additives in it that might not be good for the fish.

The red streaks are probably because ammonia is present in the tank and it is not showing up on the dip strips. Prime or amquel will neutralize any ammonia in the tank that's not showing up.

Would you be able to buy any crushed coral at all? This will help buffer your water so the pH and KH will stop dropping.

:D Don't worry asking questions is perfectly fine and encouraged. :D Please feel to ask as many questions as your heart desires. :D we're al in it together. You're doing very very well.

I'll slow up on the bacteria, it makes total sense to wait until they have the time to do some good. I did read somewhere that pouring a bit on the filter media might help. Is this something you guys would recommend?

I'll keep the salt up for at least one week after all of his symptoms are gone. As far as the conditioner goes, I've been reading posts as they come up and recall Prime being contraindicated with use of salt at a treatment concentration. Is this right?

The pH after water changes is 7.0, and is 6.8 in the morning with the KH and GH lowered as well. This tells me I do need to look more into the coral while Herman has to remain in his little tank. Buffering needs a boost I believe. Is there a tutorial on coral use? Or perhaps would anyone know the best way to use it in his 5 gallon abode?

I love that I don't have to feel foolish asking questions! This hobby is helping not miss ICU as much. (I'm a natural birthing nurse now, and don't have to deal with the high tech/ph/blood gas fun of the unit any longer. :) )

Lola, you are doing great!

Haruka has given you some excellent advice.

I would not worry about having to many plants, at least not with the few you've got now. As long as he has lots of room to swim he'll be alright and probably appreciates the coverage.

If possible, you could you bump his water changes up to twice daily?

Even if you only have time to do a 25% change in the morning, and keep up with your 50%-75% changes you are already doing, it would help!

You may have ammonia building that the test strips aren't picking up, and as always, when in doubt WATER CHANGE! Hehe. I'm not sure what the people-care equivalent of a water change is, but they can never hurt (as long as they are temperature matched, PH matched and dechlorinated!)and are usually the first thing we suggest when people are having fish problems.

PS: That first picture is CUTE!

I am bumping the water changes up when I can. Our homeschooling year has begun and on co-op days, I have to only do the one change, but he's improving yet so I remain hopeful!

And thanks, we think he's just the cutest little dude! (I'm now wondering if he's a dude at all....his body seems very round and I was reading about sex characteristics. I suppose I'll just have to watch for "stars" and perhaps garters? Hee hee.

I am sure you are already doing this, but make sure you keep a very detailed log about the salt. It is really easy to get confused when doing water changes with salt. Herman is a cutie!

We are keeping a log. I do this in the hope that I don't mess up if I've worked all night and am in zombie mode at water change time. :)

Just want to mention to make sure not to go over 0.3 salt - it is too high for goldies :) also, once ALL the spots are gone, keep the salt in one extra week to make sure you kill all the free swimmers.

You are doing a fab job!

Thank you! I'm trying very hard to keep it at that concentration. :D

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Excellent, excellent, Lola! Keep up the good work and keep us posted!

I don't have your crushed corral tutorial but I'm sure someone else would know how to use it.

I'm fairly certain you just stick a bag of it in your filter box after rinsing VERY WELL (It can cloud the water at first if you don't) and wait for the magic to happen.

Can someone confirm?

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Exactly what iheartfishies said. You can use about a handful of it and put it in a mesh bag and tie it up, or put it in some pantyhose. Please please please make sure you rinse it very thoroughly before putting it in the tank. :undecided: Once I didn't do it enough and my tank water was a lovely milky white. :o It's best to put it in the filter box so the coral bits can start releasing calcium adn other minerals into the water. This will keep the water buffered for years to come.

As for pouring the bbs in the filter media, yes that works very well :D Just a remind that you'll want 10x the gallonage of your tank going through the filter per hour. For example if your tank is a 5 gallon tank you'll want your filter to push through 50 gallons per hour or more. When you get the 30 gallon you'll want 300 gallons per hour or more. It's really really helpful for goldies :D

You're doing such a great job! It realyl is a pleasure to have you here at Kokos :D

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Excellent, excellent, Lola! Keep up the good work and keep us posted!

I don't have your crushed corral tutorial but I'm sure someone else would know how to use it.

I'm fairly certain you just stick a bag of it in your filter box after rinsing VERY WELL (It can cloud the water at first if you don't) and wait for the magic to happen.

Can someone confirm?

Exactly what iheartfishies said. You can use about a handful of it and put it in a mesh bag and tie it up, or put it in some pantyhose. Please please please make sure you rinse it very thoroughly before putting it in the tank. :undecided: Once I didn't do it enough and my tank water was a lovely milky white. :o It's best to put it in the filter box so the coral bits can start releasing calcium adn other minerals into the water. This will keep the water buffered for years to come.

As for pouring the bbs in the filter media, yes that works very well :D Just a remind that you'll want 10x the gallonage of your tank going through the filter per hour. For example if your tank is a 5 gallon tank you'll want your filter to push through 50 gallons per hour or more. When you get the 30 gallon you'll want 300 gallons per hour or more. It's really really helpful for goldies :D

You're doing such a great job! It realyl is a pleasure to have you here at Kokos :D

Thanks Haruka and IHeart!

I went to two different places to find crushed coral without success. His pH dropped to 6.0 last night so I added a bit of baking soda to the water with an improvement to 7.6. We're taking a road trip this afternoon to try another place. Should I wait a bit before placing the coral in the tank after adding the baking soda buffer (assuming I'm lucky and find some today)?

Is there a favorite brand of filter? Bio-wheels may be something I can do down the road, but I'm wondering about brands (being a novice and all).

I haven't heard of Prime and salt not working together. Prime is my only water conditioner, so I use them together all the time without problems.

Excellent! Thank you! I'll add this to my list.

Edited by Lola_Granola
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I heard goo things about Penguin Biowheels. :)

I think you can go ahead and add the coral as soon as you find it, it doesn't tamper with the pH as much as stabilize it and add hardness to the tank water I think :)

what is your tap pH again? higher than the tank right? that is good :)

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I have a Penguin Bio wheel. I like it, but I'm not absolutely crazy about it.

It may be because mine is getting on in years, but I have to fill it up with water and jiggle the intake tube after a water change to get it to start. It still does it's job, and quietly. Plus the little spinning wheel is quite charming.

I also have two Tetra Whisper EX filters. Those start on their own but can be quiet loud if they are in the mood for it.

I guess a lot of people on Koko's like the Aquaclear brand, but I've not ever tried it.

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I recommend Aquaclear HOB (Hang on the back) Filters because of the customization you can do on them. They allow for lots and lots of filter media which is essential. An Aquaclear 110 would be great for a 30 gallon tank if you get one.

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Thank you for the recommendations you guys!

I'm afraid Herman might not be liking all of these water changes. His eyes seem a bit sticky-outy on the top. When he turns them a certain way it looks as if they might just come right on out. smilie_krank_142.gif

Ammonia 0

Nitrites 0

Nitrates 0

GH 25

KH 40

pH 7.4

(API Drops)

I'm still changing his water daily (50-75%), vacuuming the gravel and removing a handful each day as well.

His poo seemed to be long, and empty (does this make sense?) so I fasted him yesterday and attempted to feed him chopped cooked, cooled and shelled peas today (I might have the only goldfish who dislikes peas, he ate his crisps though).

We're looking for a larger tank on Craigslist, but I'm wondering if he'll last long enough for me to talk my husband into the cost.

He's not floating or gasping, he's just not as active as he has been.

I've not found the coral yet, and haven't had to add any more baking soda to the tank.

I'm just worried about the little dude.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Curse that 5 gallon tank box with all of those happy goldfish on it!

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Uh oh. Is he eating well at all? White stringy poo is not good. It can either be stress poo or he's got parasites. But definitely get us a pic and then we can take it from there :D

You're doing a great job!

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I think I understand that once you get a 30 gallon, the tank would go in your daughter's room right?

I have a 31gallon - (just purchased it for $75!, including stand, powerhead :ignore ) I have two fancies in a 5 gallon - was tricked like most. But filter wise I use a fluval 305 - which puts out 1000Lph because my tank is 119 litres.

They are sooooooo quite! So if you have the filter on at night in her room I would recomend this filter. Expensive - but i love it and would recomend it to anyone.

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Hi you guys! Thanks for the advise. I've been working like a crazy woman (bunch of beautiful human babies being born) and am just sitting down to catch up.

Herman is still acting fine and eating like he's starving. I cleaned and changed the water tonight and forgot to take a photo of the poo. It remains whitish, airish and long. I'm going to fast him for a couple of days and see how he does with peas again. Is it possible he's not a fan of peas?

I'm still on the look out for crushed coral, and have had to buffer the tank again with some baking soda. Otherwise the water is looking great.

His eyes, I'm thinking are ok. Perhaps I'm just getting used to his anatomy? When he blinked a few times it was freaky. Here's a photo from tonight.

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We are on day 10 of ich treatment. The water remains about 80-82 degrees and I've maintained a 0.3% concentration. I don't see any spots on him, aside from ones he's had since we've gotten him.

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Should I keep the heat and salt up for another 3 days to be sure?

Thanks for everything everyone! It helps so much knowing I'm not alone in Herman's care. :heart

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I think his eyes look normal. Some orandas have a bit buggier eyes than others. And I think that spot on his tail is just a tail flaw, but I am just guessing based on the picture, so it can't hurt to do a few more days of salt.

I am starting to wonder if the white poo (which mean something bacterial) might be more of a stress things. Some fish get stressed out during water changes and being in the small tank (I agree...curse that box!) might add to that. So as long as he is acting okay, let's hope this is stress poo. I don't know if you have a Pet*Co where you are at, but they are about to do the $1 a gallon sale again soon and if nothing else you could pick him up a ten gallon for $10.

Very cute pictures!

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I agree with Amy, he looks great! He has no red in his tail which means you are doing fabulous with the w/c! Don't worry about the tail thing, my redcap has it too, it looks more like a 'bend' in the tail. :)

keep up the good work!

1$ sale sound fabulous!

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