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Stubborn Popeye


Guldklumpen

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[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? about 40 (tap water is 35 )

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?7.6

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.6

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drop

[*]Water temperature? 77 F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 66 gal, been cycled for about 6 months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? background filter

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? twice a week i change about 33%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 goldfish from 5 to 9 inches with tail measured

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? none

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? different types of flakes, pellets and greens twice a day

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? no

[*]Any medications added to the tank? last week i treated popeye succesfully with salt and esha-2000

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? my oranda, who is fine has torn fins

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? the sick fish have popeye's and hangs at the top of the tank alot. she opens/closes her mouth more than usual.

My 5 year old fantail Tvilsen is suffering from popeye.

It is now about 2 weeks since i discovered her problem.

Last week i treated her with salt (0.1%) and esha 2000.

That helped pretty fast, but sadly now she is sick again with popeye.

The water quality is fine and the fish have an air curtain in the tank.

The other fish are fine except for some shredded fins on my oranda.

The sick Tvilsen still eats but her eyes look bad and she opens & closes

her mouth alot.

She also appear swollen but no pineconing so far.

After medicating last week i have changed 20% water EOD

I am very sad she is sick and not knowing why is making i worse.

She is still a young fish :(

Can anyone help me?

Right now i have to start using esha 2000 again to make her eyes stop swelling.

Best regards

Guldklumpen

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What is esha 2000?

Popeye comes mostly from high levels of bacteria in the tank -bad bacteria. It hangs out mostly in gravel, hollow ornaments, dirty filters. I recommend that you clean all these very carefully. As soon as the bacteria issue is addressed, the pop eye should fix itself. I wouldn't add any meds.

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Then i have a huge problem..

...im using a background filter that is not supposed to be cleaned, but

every 6 months or so i need to change the filter cotton.

My gravel i pretty clean, i siphon it every week.

If tearing down my background and the filter behind it and buying

a new type of filter is the only solution, then i will do it.

But i hope there is another solution???

Cant i kill the bacteria?

Will Melafix help? i have ordered some.

Esha 2000 i used alot in my part of the world (Denmark)

We dont have all the same meds as in US, buy some i can buy online.

http://www.eshalabs.com/esha2000.htm

This is my current setup:

IMG_3439.jpg

Filter info:

illustrationwater2.jpg

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Hi there, so sorry about Tvilsen not feeling good. I notice your nitrates are very high even from the tap, is this something new? I know some fish are very sensitive to nitrates and will get popeye if the nitrates are high.

Also you mention he gulps a lot, have you ever treated your fish for flukes?

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Hi there, so sorry about Tvilsen not feeling good. I notice your nitrates are very high even from the tap, is this something new? I know some fish are very sensitive to nitrates and will get popeye if the nitrates are high.

Also you mention he gulps a lot, have you ever treated your fish for flukes?

The nitrates have allways been high in the tapwater here in my town, but stil even sensetive creatures like my

Crystal shrimp, cherry shrimp and amano shrimp are doing fine.

I doubt it is flukes, but the gulping increases with the swelling of her eyes.

also it decreases when the swelling goes down, like last week when i medicated her.

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I don't think Melafix is a good idea. For popeye it is best to remove the cause (he just needs clean clean water) - I really think the filter might be a serious problem.

Do you have an extra tank? Otherwise, what I have are 75liter storage boxes from Ikea - about 10euro - and I have the fish in QT in there. SO you could move the fish there with an airstone while you change out the filter. I recommend a JBL canister if you can get one. ( I have 3 of the CristalProfi 1500 in my main tank and they are awesome)

As for the gravel, I would remove it personally. But that is really up to you. Maybe when you do the cleaning you can check how dirty it really is - I was always surprised at what hangs out in there.

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About how deep is that gravel bed? I'm beginning to think that along with the filter could possibly be a problem. With a gravel bed you'll want it to be an inch or less, or else the anaerobic bacteria go crazy.

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The gravel is about an inch in the back and so low in the front that you can see

the glass bottom several places.

Tvilsen has spnt the night in a 90 liter plastic tub, like the one masons use.

she's got a internal fluval filter, an airstone and i have added salt.

She is still eating this morning, i have fed her peas.

Since her swelling have not gone down, i have added esha 2000.....im so scared they might pop.

I added 60% clean water and 40% tank water to the tub.

the filter is not cycled, so do i need to change some water ED? or EOD?

Guldklumpen.

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yea so it is definitely something in your tank that is irritating her. Can you take her out and put her in the plastic tub with an air stone? That really would be best.... You really need to clean out that filter and gravel. :undecided:

remember to turn up the temp to 26ish - that helps a lot

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oh okey. well just very clean water. warmer temps. the epson when you can get it (that always helps my fish). And if it doesn't get better in like 1-2 days you should look to get her some MetroMeds... I use the Jungle AP since that is the only thing I can get fast in Europe.

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Make sure you do not mix the epsom salt with regular aquarium salt! The effects can be bad. I really hope your fish feels better :heart Like Federica said clean water, warmer water, and epsom will usually help with dropsy in the early stages.

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Initially i added normal regular aquarium salt, but have changed 80% water when it was clear she had dropsy.

Is the remaining salt in the 20% water i did not change a problem??

Must i again change 100% water?

She is very big, popeyed and pineconing now :(

I fear that her kidneys are gone, since i "cured" her once last week and now the meds have no effect.

From what i read, dropsy allmost allways return?

Some say you can only postpone it, not cure it?

Have any of you cured it permanently?

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Yes do an 100% water change immediately and add 1/4th teaspoon of epsom per 10 gallons of water.

Yes many members here have saved their fish from dropsy. Federica here has saved little Dr. House twice from it with epsom. The problem with dropsy is, once a fish has it, it isd more susceptible to it again. It doesn't necessarily mean dropsy will always return, it's just that the fish is weaker and has a higher chance of getting it again if water quality and other things aren't perfect.

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I have seen those kind of built in filters that are wet/dry systems and they can be quite good, but they still get bacteria built up in them and need rinsed out and the media still needs regularly rinsed. They are a bit harder to maintain because to truly clean it you need to do a 100% water change, remove the fish and rinse it out. This is a good time to boil your gravel if you plan on keeping it. Just make sure you keep the rinsed filter media in dechlorinated water to keep your cycle. Fingers crossed for your fish.

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Yea my Dr.House got full blown dropsy the first time last January. That one was treated with heat, epson and jungle AP (did you manage to find that?) then she got it 2 more times, which I just treated with epson and heat. I think dropsy fish just repeat often because of their weaker kidneys... But there is hope :) especially since your fish seems to have a reaction to bacteria, not organ failure.

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I don't want to alarm you, but I just checked on the Esha 2000 and I really think you should remove that and just leave her alone with clean water, the heat and the epson. That medicine could be very hard on the kidneys and do more harm than good. I think medicine-wise, the only thing you should use for dropsy is medicated food.

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I agree with Frederica. Do another 100% water change to get the eSHa out. I also just looked it up and it SEEMS as though it's Malachite Green. (Could you confirm this and list the ingredients on the box?)

From Trinket's List of Medicine Contraindications:

Malachite Green: or any other so called greens (e.g: aniline green, basic green 4, diamond green B, Victoria green b etc). Also a registered carcinogen and banned for use in fish food fish. Toxic dye, toxicity related to pH, temperature and DO levels. More toxic in high pH. Does kill bacteria as well as parasites. Kills all bbs. Higher dose needed for marine tanks. Loaches and tetras need just half doses. Do not use with high levels of salt.

0.1% -0.2% is okay.

So we want you to take that out because it's not doing as good of a job as other things could do.

Try looking online for medicated fish food. Jungle Anti-Parasite is a good one that is readily available almost anywhere, and ANYTHING with metronidazole is preferable to any medicated food without it.

For now, we should focus on Epsom salt and warm water. Remember that the dosage for Epsom salt is 1/4 tsp for 38L. Keep your temperatures up around 27C.

It also might do him lots of good if you turn off the tank lights. Sick fish can become very stressed by too much light.

Keep us updated. :)

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I got my first Jungle AP from ebay or amazon germany. you should check it out. :)

Sarah, I read on a german website that the Esha 2000 has copper as main ingredient. I think it is an equivalent to CopperSafe?

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I cant get any info on the esha 2000 box, but it is not supposed to kill the bio cycle.

And it did not do that when i medicated i the main tank last week.

It does however look green when i add it to the water.

Is this the food you mention?:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jungle-Laboratories-Anti-Parasite-Medium-Food/dp/B0009YD8Y2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=diy&qid=1281974846&sr=8-1

The tub contains roughly 80 liters of water.

that is 1/2 teaspoon epsom......but how much is that in grams?

I added 2.5 milliliters.

She dont have any light in her tub, only the dim light from the main tank hits her tub.

She is in a sheltered place.

Here she is, i really love her so much :(

IMG_3456.jpg

IMG_3458.jpg

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