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Howl Has A Frayed Tail And Very Red Streaks In Tail


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Oh she is definately in the naughty tank...the naughty tank being a floating bucket with holes in it. Any reason this shouldn't work? I can always go get a plastic colander tommorrow if that is better. And she is throwing a fit. She keeps splashing up to the surface trying to get it, but so far she hasn't been successful.

Walley has a huge tail and he does have a few splits that I noticed today. They are harder to see. Walley is a slow swimmer, but he seemed to be doing his best to get out of her way.

What surprises me is that Howl should be the fastest swimmer. So how did she do that much damage to him without him getting away?

That leads me to think he already had tail issues for whatever reason and she was nibbling on the microscopic things that stick to tails and maybe she discovered this new habit.

In that case, isolation while they heal and then when totally healed putting her back may work.

But it may not and in that case I need to be prepared. Lynda can't take her or she would be overstocked. So, that leads store credit or a Koko's person that wants to put her with other short tailed fish.

But I guess I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Any reason I should put her in something else rather than the bucket? How long will she be okay in there for if it is floating in the main tank with holes in it?

Hopefully she settles down soon and goes to sleep. The other two can get a good night's sleep tonight as well being that their tails are safe.

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how big is it? I think she will be fine in there as long as there is good change of water. maybe wipe it down once a day if she is 'on' it much, so no bacteria irritates her belly.

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i tried to separate them like that.. but it didn't work.. i don't know if it has to do with them still being able to smell her or see her.. but it didn't work.. so i had to really separate them.. then, results happened..

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Any updates Amy?

I have just caught up here and sorry to hear of little improvement and the issues with Ponyo undecided.gif

It certainly sounds like Howl has suffered from several different factors that have have combined. Moving and cycling stress are big initial ones plus possible digestive/food reactions. Do you have Pima/melafix in the water now? Salt? Has anything helped at all and how has the tail looked since removing Ponyo? Was Ponyo actually eating or nibbling on Howls tail or was Ponyo chasing him/her in circles? Just trying to focus in.

heartpump.gif

I agree with your instincts, try to avoid more (harsh )meds if you possibly can. He has had a lot. I would possibly swipe his tail once with hp and then just leave well alone for a week in a cyced tank with either low salt or melafix if you prefer. Do remember that reactions in fish are not always immediate and more often occur as long as 10 days after an affective event.

I am concerned about Ponyo, a big active fish can get very very stressed in confined quarters and the last thing you need now is for him/her to fall sick. sad.gif

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Just regarding the plants and driftwood. I am planning my new tank deco and decided to stay away from driftwood. Instead I am attaching the Java Ferns and Anubias to large river rocks - which can be disinfected well before hand :)

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Thanks for checking in, Imo. I need all the help I can get here. It was more of chasing in circles. I never actually caught her with Howl, it was Walley. And Walley's tail is shredded/split at the end, too. It isn't bloody, though. She was clearly zoning in and grabbing mouthfuls and Walley was trying his best to scoot away. I had never caught her doing that before.

The bucket I have her floating in the main tank is one of those giant ice cream buckets (I think just under two gallons). She is clearly frustrated and has escaped a few times. She did have a whitish stress poo this morning, so I am worried about that as well. I can put her in QT for a week or so and we can try that as well.

Howl looks much better this morning. Still red and frayed, but the red spot on his belly is gone and the red is more of a dull pink. I did an HP swab yesterday, added the second dose of Melafix and have him at .01% salt. I do think this is possibly a delayed stress/cycling reaction and that Ponyo might have chewed his tail after it was already fraying. I am getting Pimafix later this week.

So, what to do? Keep them seperate, let Howl heal, and try again? What about the gel food, Imo? Once he has healed should I try again and see if he is reacting to it? He did fine with Lynda's gel food, but that was a different mix.

One thing I can't figure out is that Howl is a much faster swimmer than the other fish. Though Ponyo sure manages to get around. So if she was eating tails wouldn't Walley with his giant flowing tail and his mostly bottomsitting been the one to have been completly destroyed? But she is not letting Walley alone, so she learned tail nipping from somewhere and Howl looks much better this morning. Not to mention I fasted them on the day his tail got really ravished, so if she was extra hungry???

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Just regarding the plants and driftwood. I am planning my new tank deco and decided to stay away from driftwood. Instead I am attaching the Java Ferns and Anubias to large river rocks - which can be disinfected well before hand smile.gif

I learned a cool thing, too. You can hook a suction cup (like the heater holder kind) around your java fern and it will hold it in place at the bottom of the tank. Though I think some driftwood can be fine, I do think less is more.

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maybe Ponyo just doesn't like Howl! I am having something similar happening between Einstein and Sir L (Sir L doesn't look as bad as Howl tho!) - they keep chasing in circles. But the strange thing is that the bullying goes both ways... I just think they don't like each other. :undecided:

I would put little Ponyo in QT. it would be a pity if she gets sick.

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Hi Amy Im glad things are no worse and possibly looking better for Howl. I agree on the delayed stress and pink is def better than vivid red..

What does the chasing in circles mean?

This is often breeding behavior. It can totally exhaust some female fish and they will get very stressed by it. The male/s in the tank will chase and nudge any female that is 'ready' or gravid in an endless pestering chase that looks so much like bullying. Fish can get torn fins and frayed fins from this and very weak.

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This is often breeding behavior. It can totally exhaust some female fish and they will get very stressed by it. The male/s in the tank will chase and nudge any female that is 'ready' or gravid in an endless pestering chase that looks so much like bullying. Fish can get torn fins and frayed fins from this and very weak.

oh no... so THATS why Einstein does that to Sir L (a girl) now! No wonder he doesn't pester Sir Archie. Do the girls always have to lay eggs if this is happening? (Sir L has torn fins and is tired :()

sorry amy for stealing your thread!!! :wa

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I'm at work (and as you all can see working hard), so when I last left Ponyo was swimming in very angry circles in the ice cream bucket floating in the main tank. And Walley and Howl seemed to be breathing a sigh of relief. Of course, I may be anthromorphisizing a tiny bit. My job tonight is to either set up the QT tank (ove rmy husband's many protests) or to get a divider. I can't decide which is the better choice.

So, I wonder if this is breeding behavior? Howl has been looking swollen lately? Though better today with the two days of peas. But that doesn't explain the chasing of Walley (who according to Steve is a male) and the chewing up of the tail. She was clearly zoning in on tails and sucking them up as fast as she could with Walley trying to swim out of her mouth.

Oddly, enough Ponyo and Howl do seem to like eachother...they follow each other all over the tank and are never aggressive.

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oh okay..mmm..thats a bit different then, if Ponyo is a tail nipper...

As said in Pm just now I would go with QT if you can cycle immediately and divider if not. Sorry hub is not approving- would Lynda take Ponyo??unsure.gif

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He hates the QT tank, but he can deal with it. He does a lot of things that irritate me, too (welcome to the world of marriage and compromiserofl3.gif ).

I do think she may have developed a bad habit, but I can't say for sure whether or not it started with her. If it didn't start with her it might be able to be broken. But I won't know that until I put her back in the tank with healed fish. And then I have to hope for the best.

I wish Lynda could take her if she can be broken of this, because she is beyond cute and I am pretty sure she is a TVR (an imperfect one, but nonetheless). But Lynda has no more room and is moving, so she is going to be in a tight space. I think Ponyo would do great in all ranchu/lionhead shorttail tank.

But my hope is that I can break her of this and keep her. She is so darn cute and healthy and spunky...well, along with being a little monster.

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Ponyo is all set up in the naughty tank, though she seems to be quite please with herself in the ten gallon. I'm not sure she realizes it is the naughty tank. On closer inspection tonight all of the edges of Walley's tail is frayed (though not nearly as badly as Howl's). And Howl is looking better already. So that is good news.

newfish058.jpg

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it will work Amy, but you need to allow enough time for the habit to break. I recommend a minimum of 2 weeks, then reintroducing, but keep a close eye on the first day incase it coninues and you need to separate for longer.. 2 peaty fish in my tank permanently changed their ways... the naughty tank is the best!

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Howl has no more red at all this morning....just some shredded tail ends. But you won't believe what I saw him doing...nibbling on Walley's tail! It was mostly accidential though as he was trying to siphon through the gravel where Walley was hanging out and Walley was not moving. And Ponyo seems perfectly content in her naughty tank.

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Yikes Amy..maybe tail nipping is infectious whatjust.gif

Glad to hear all is well in the naughty and not so naughty (but to be watched closely) tanks smile.gif

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Howl is much improved. I feel like I still have issues in my main tank that I don't like. Howl top hangs at night and Walley is still my number one bottom sitter. But how quickly Howl's and Walley's tails are healing makes me feel good about my water.

Once I am ready to try Ponyo back in the big girl tank I have a few ideas to try and reduce this problem. It was only happening at night, so I am thinking of breaking my feedings into two rounds and doing one right before bed. I might even do a nightly spinach or something on a feeder clip to keep her busy. And I'm thinking more plants, but ones that are tasty and interesting like a moss ball and some anachris (my last batch died fairly quickly due to the pp). I just need to keep her mouth busy. And I hope it works. Otherwise, she needs to go to an all ranchu/lionhead/shorttail tank or be permantly divided.

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yeah..it is hard work having an overactive fish like Ponyo. I think the added feeding stations will help keep her busy and are a good idea.

As for Howl tophanging at night, has he/she always done this? This again reminds me of what Momma Flap does when she has eggs brewing. Just thought i would mention it.

Happy to hear tails are healing smile.gif

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