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amynmitchell

Howl Has A Frayed Tail And Very Red Streaks In Tail

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? .25ppm

[*]Nitrate level? 15ppm

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 8

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.5

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or dropsAPI

[*]Water temperature? 78

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 40 gallons, 4 months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? 55 aquaclear, Fluval 304

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 75% weekly

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 3, three inches

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? 1x, gel food, frozen or fresh

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? 2 after QT

[*]Any medications added to the tank? No

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Bloody and frayed fins on Howl

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Some fin clamping

I am a bit worried about Howl. He is very spunky, but he did stress when added to the new tank. He now has very prominate red veins, frayed fins, blood splotches. He ate fine and is spunky still. The tank is cycling, but when Lynda came over we replaced my gravel with a ton of hers, so hopefully good BBs will take over the baddies soon.

I am leaving for San Diego for two nights tommorrow. My plan was another water change and .01% salt, unless someone has another suggestion.

newfish039-1.jpg

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Awww poor sweetie. :ill I agree with you about the salt, especially since you will be gone for two days. I know when my fantail had red veins like that the salt took care of it very quickly.

I hope Howl will recover quickly. :heart

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I swear... sometimes they do things on purpose just to keep us on our toes! :doh11: I hope with the salt she gets better soon and you can just enjoy having nice, healthy new fish in your tank. Keep a super close eye out (although I know you will!) for any other symptoms that may develop. Hopefully this is just a minor thing, but my poor Suki had a tail similar to that after shipping and she got worse quickly and was dead within five days. So just keep a close eye out, and see if your hubby can watch for your while you are gone. I'm sure everything will be just fine :heart

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How long far away is your friend that Qtd them? Maybe the trip was just a bit stressful. The white ones are soooo sensitive I swear! My Einstein gets red veins real easily. Salt will fix it :D maybe if they got extra stressed you should do a short round of Prazi for any Flukes that could have survived QT and could take opportunity of them feeling a bit down.

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i agree, it does sound like the usual stress symptoms, particularly as you said that they were both qt'd in seperate tanks for 5 weeks.. if there was going to be anything else happening, i am sure that it would have shown during that time. but, any symptom needs to be closely monitored as a just incase.. howl is so cute, he reminds me of my rocky.

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Amy, I am definitely thinking this is due to the nitrites.

What color are his gills? If they are a purplish color, you need to do a huge water change. Nitrite poisoning happens at different levels for each fish, so we want to keep that number as low as possible.

I also pm'd you some rather sensitive advice.

While you can use salt with low amounts of nitrite, it's not recommended. For the next two days, it might be good to try and do as many water changes as possible to keep the ites LOWER.

Also, you might ask Lynda if she has a little bit of cycled media you can "borrow" to help get your cycle over the hump. :)

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Amy, I am definitely thinking this is due to the nitrites.

What color are his gills? If they are a purplish color, you need to do a huge water change. Nitrite poisoning happens at different levels for each fish, so we want to keep that number as low as possible.

I also pm'd you some rather sensitive advice.

While you can use salt with low amounts of nitrite, it's not recommended. For the next two days, it might be good to try and do as many water changes as possible to keep the ites LOWER.

Also, you might ask Lynda if she has a little bit of cycled media you can "borrow" to help get your cycle over the hump. :)

What she said. I totally agree stay away from the salt, and keep up those water changes. Nitrites can be nasty things. :madrant

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I have always heard that a low dose of salt is good to use when there are nitrites in the water because it improves gill function and makes it so nitrites don't get absorbed into the bloodstream as easily. Is this not right? Why are you guys advising no salt? Please understand I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, I just want to learn! I'm intrigued. :)

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Gosh, I thought salt was good too, but I am glad I haven't added it yet. One the tank is showing cycled should I add some to help those frayed fins?

I took out my thin layer of gravel and replaced it all with gravel from Lynda's tank (well, actually the gravel from her tank that was in QT with the new fish, so this gravel has been through prazi and salt). So I really hope that will get this cycle kicking soon. I'm really only gone for one full day this week and two full days next week, so hopefully they will do fine with the water changes.

Howl's gills don't look any different. He is so pale that you can see his gills through his skin! And he hasn't acted differently. He briefly clamped his fins and bottomsat when going in the new tank yesterday, but after an hour of that he hasn't stopped being busy. I do think these white fish show everything...he will be a great indicator if something is off in my tank.

The drive from Lynda's is about thirty minutes. So dealing with the drive, a new tank, and tankmates is a big chance and could definately induce stress.

Okay, I am off to do a water change. I'll keep everyone posted.

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I have always heard that a low dose of salt is good to use when there are nitrites in the water because it improves gill function and makes it so nitrites don't get absorbed into the bloodstream as easily. Is this not right? Why are you guys advising no salt? Please understand I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, I just want to learn! I'm intrigued. :)

Don't worry, we know you aren't being argumentative! It's ok to question....especially when you do it in such a polite manner! :)

I am not sure on the exact reason for it....I checked on Trinket's salt link, and it said don't use salt in an uncycled tank. Let me ask her to either explain it to me, or pop in here and give a good thorough answer! :)

:iwill

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I just got back tonight and Lynda's gravel did the trick! Everything is at 0 except my nitrates at 10ppm. I will still keep testing daily to make sure.

Howl's red streaks are mostly gone, but the tail is still pretty frayed with a few splits.

Since learning that prazi and salt don't work well together (he was at .03 salt all during QT) I decided to add another round of prazi. He sure did alot of piping after. I will add another dose next week and if I am still showing cycled and the tail is still rough I will add salt.

But I would love any advice if anyone has any other suggestions.

He must be feeling fine because he got a huge chunk of gel food and refused to spit it out, even though it took him a few minutes to actually get it down...big piggie!

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That's all great news,Amy :D:hi5 I' so glad to hear it :heart

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Amy, some folks are fans of MelaFix, others aren't, but I've had great experiences healing split fins and minor sores by treating with it for just a few days. Just my :twocents.

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I'm backing what RanchuDressing said all the way, when I got home from my trip to the mess of the tank, salt and Melafix healed up Alfred's fins in 2 days. It was like magic.

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I see the confusion!! Salt is a double edged sword indeed. It is not advised during the ammonia phase of a cycle..and if you can avoid it totally it is really not a good idea at all when cycling as it tends to make people more lazy about w/cs (well um, me anyways!) and beneficial bacteria can be very sensitive to it..

However salt is a good protector of gills when nitrites are definitely raging. At low doses. This is the second part of the cycle, often around 10 days to 2 weeks in. Salt competes with the uptake of nitrites via the gills and offers protection. However, nitrites are the end product of the ammonia conversion by the nitrobacter bacteria and these bacteria ARE sensitive to salt. That's the catch. So all of you are in fact right and the trick is... to salt very slowly and to keep checking your params while salting always. If nitrites surge you have to stop and deal with the other evil..:(

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Interesting...I love learning this stuff. Well, so far (knock wood and any other lucky stuff) the gravel Lynda gave me is doing the trick. And today the red streaks are all gone! So, I will finish out this round of prazi, maybe do another. Can I do prazi with Melafix?

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You can Melafix with anything.

Just be careful not to use it too long as it is oil.

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Darn it! Well, Howl was looking better before I left. He still had some frayed edges, but the red streaks were all gone. I just got home today and his tail is much worse. He has two pretty good sized splits and a deep red streak and veins on one side. The edges are all frayed. I have also noticed that he has started piping. Both he and Ponyo always pipe after they eat, but he tends to hang at the top for a half an hour or so after eating and for at least that long once the light goes out.

I tested my water when I got home and it is at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 nitrate (I added a bunch of anachris so they dropped a bit). The main tank is also salted at .01% salt.

In QT, he and Ponyo were both salted and had a few rounds of prazi. They each had a formalin dip (I was being very aggressive based on past problems). When they went in the main tank they got one dose of prazi and then after the last water change they got a half of dose of prazi (I just basically was trying to empty the bottle instead of wasting it).

Now, one thing that may have happened is that one of my rocks was tipped over. It is possible that was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the rock fell on part of his tail because it is only red in one area. But I can't say for sure.

I haven't added Melafix yet, since there is a bit of prazi still in the tank. After Sunday's water change I was thinking of adding it unless someone has a better idea.

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I don't know much about goldie illnesses but it sounds similar to septicemia which I have experienced with angels. I treated it with large water changes and lowering the temp to lower than 74 degrees. Or oxytetracycline if that doesn't work. Luckily, once treated they all made it.

Edited by ashlee18

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I think your idea with the melafix would work. Just make sure the salt is at 0.1% or lower so the prazi still works. Based on experience melafix and salt works wonders on split fins.

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I would be more worried with the fraying of the fins than the actual tears. In my experience I found that they can tear their tails 'accidentally', but frayed/thin looking fins somehow mean a lower immunity or something alone those lines... You are already feeding Probiotics right?

Formalin cannot burn the fin edges right?

How about 10days of MediGold? I know that you prefer to stay away from meds like this, but I keep reading that MediGold is really good after shipping/ transportation stress...?

I would say - stick to the Melafix if it is just accidental cuts etc, but if she acts any more off I would start the MediGold.

Just my opinion :)

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I am more worried about the frayed fins and the piping than anything. I think some red veins might be normal for Howl since he is so white.

The Formalin could probably cause fin damage if left in too long, but I timed everything. And that was seven weeks or so ago. But then again maybe it did casue the fraying...who knows?

I feed gel food as the main diet source and it has saki-hikari in it, yogurt, carrots, peas, greens, seaweed, bell pepper and a multivitamin So that should be good? Anything else I should add in the diet?

I'm hesitant to do any serious meds, just because he is actin so completley wiggly and happy and active. But if this isn't getting better by next week I am certainly willing to try. Medi-gold over metro-meds?

I don't really have anything on hand except Jungle AP and AB food, but I could certainly order something.

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