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White Poo?


Pontosfan

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Oh, no scraping. He was near the bottom, shook in one place for a second or two and then just swam away. :|

He doesn't have a dorsal fin.

Edited by Pontosfan
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I agree with Sakura on this one. "Shaking" does not go along with "constipation" in goldfish.

Is there any way you can get some Prazi? I think in the UK you can get it with Wormer Plus.

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Prazi is used as an anti-parasitic, and is effective in clearing out nasties from your fish's gills and digestive system.

As a side note, my fish do a constipation wiggle, which is kinda like a butt shake, when they're trying to have a poo.

Sakura's suggestion of a single grain of Epsom salt in an thawed cut-to-size pea (the frozen unsalted peas in supermarkets, a pack will last you a LONG time) is effective for constipation. I fed a constipated fish the Epsom pea last night, and a few hours later she had two massive poos.

Similarly, mysis shrimp, like the frozen cubes sold by Hikari, are a laxative and do not cost very much.

Furthermore, you have 8 fish in the equivalent of a 20 gallon tank. Optimally, your Fluval 3 Plus does 185gph, which just falls below the 10x filtration rule of thumb. Now I'm not telling you to go buy anything, I'm just going to point out that even with 2" fish, the added bioload of the danios in a 20g tank may be overstocking it. So what I'm going to tell you is to increase the frequency of your water changes to maybe 25% a week instead of 50% a month. It's 25% so as to not adversely disturb the balance in your aquarium with sudden water changes, but please note that with a higher bioload, it's easier to upset this balance. It's once a week to routinely and constantly remove the buildup if nitrates as some will say that a nitrate level of 25ppm might be of some concern.

Also, fish shops do often provide water testing for free. Bring a sample to them in a clean container, and have them test it out. If your fish guy's cool enough to give you the test strips for free, he might just do a quick ammonia test too. However, I suspect that if your nitrites are undetectable and the nitrates are present, then the ammonia should be ok, but it really doesn't hurt to have it checked out.

Lastly: the food you have been giving them is a floating type, and as it floats, the fish tend to take in some air while eating. I know it's dedicated goldfish food, but I feel that soaked sinking pellets would be a better option.

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You should use frozen peas because the canned ones contain too much sugar. I just run them under warm water for a while until they are de-thawed, and then peel off the outer skin. Then you can pinch smaller pieces off so it will fit in the fish's mouths.

Water changes don't stress the fish out at all as long as:

- the water is temperature and pH matched. P.S. Do you at least have a pH test kit? Even if you don't and the pH is different from tank to tap, very small water changes (25%) daily should not affect the pH too drastically.

- you minimize sloshing the water around while changing it and add back the new water slowly.

This is also great advice, in a pinch. Changes in water chemistry between your tap and tank water can account for water changes that seem to cause more stress than good--it would be a good idea to to use those test strips to test the water coming from your tap and compare it to results in your tank.

Hopefully you can set aside a little money here and there, and can afford a test kit eventually. Most drop test kits (like from API) will last you a long time and will be well worth the knowledge and control you have over your water parameters. Water changes not only remove excess nitrates, they shall remove bacterial build ups and will help prevent bacterial infections and opportunistic bacteria from popping up in your tank. Your cycle certainly does seem well established, so it wouldn't do any harm to do those more frequent 25% water changes.

Just for other reference to those members currently helping you, what type of bloodworms did you feed? Live, frozen or freeze dried?

Good luck, Pontosfan, I hope your goldfish's only problems are only constipation. :)

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I know DrsFosterSmith sells test kits cheap Freshwater Test Kit

They also ship internationally. International shipping If you click that link there they have directions on how to order internationally. :) That might help you out some if the shipping costs aren't too expensive.

Everyone has given good advice and I do indeed hope it is only constipation :)

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I do think somehow the bloodworms got lost in the mix, so thanks for bringing that up again. Have you fed them bloodworms again? Some fish can be very very sensitive to bloodworms. One member had their white fish turn pink after eating bloodworms and some fish are allergic to them.

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I know DrsFosterSmith sells test kits cheap Freshwater Test Kit

They also ship internationally. International shipping If you click that link there they have directions on how to order internationally. :) That might help you out some if the shipping costs aren't too expensive.

Everyone has given good advice and I do indeed hope it is only constipation :)

DrsFosterSmith's international shipping can amount to quite a bit if you're far away from the states. My order of about $30 incurred a $110 FedEx bill haha. I ordered from Goldfish Utopia instead, $20 with a $30 USPS fee.

Back to topic, it appears that he's from the UK, hence the pence. And the fact that his location says "England" :)

Also, I never knew fish can get allergic to bloodworms 0.o

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Hi guys, thanks for the advice.

I haven't fed any of them bloodworms since the white poo. They were freeze dried bloodworms, by the way.

I didn't realise fish could have a bad reaction to them; i thought i was doing good. :(

Epsom and mysis shrimp sound like a good idea, although I'm not sure how much they would be (or even if my local shops sell them)so might not be able to get them. I've been thinking about getting them some sinking food as i'd heard recently that gulping air can be bad for them.

I've found in the past weekly water changes have made my fish ill, so i'm not too sure about that. MadameSpank, you said that it might be the differences in water chemistry that are responsible for this; I use Stress Coat Plus, which is supposed to destress the fish and also remove the chlorine, what else am i meant to do?

Today's the last of their 3 day starvation, and i have some peas defrosting ready for tomorrow morning. I came home today to find that he had a long trail of poo, but again, just brown.

Just out of interest, if it was an internal bacterial infection, would there not be other symptoms by now?

EDIT: As an extra note: I'm quite happy to see that they are all still quite active despite the fact they haven't eaten in three days. Previous times that I've witheld food from them they've ended up quite lethargic and slow after just one day. This is a good sign yes?

Edited by Pontosfan
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Freeze-dried stuff tends to trap air, or it doesn't absorb liquid as well, so it can lead to floatiness. Freeze-dried stuff can also harbour bacteria and some other nasties. Frozen stuff is slightly better, but it has to come from a reputable manufacturer.

You can pick up Epsom salts from a pharmacy or drug store. There are benefits for humans, Epsom baths are good for skin and stuff. A box with more than you'd ever need costs about the equivalent of a pound where I am. As for the mysis, I use the Hikari stuff, which they say is triple sterilised and all, and it comes in a frozen pack which most fish shops have in a freezer box. It costs less than a pound where I am.

Try biweekly or 10 day water changes first then, and see how they respond. A monthly change seems to be an awful long time. With 8 fish in a 20g, that's got potential for a lot of nitrate buildup. The difference in water you have to look out for is mainly the PH and temperature, but you also have to have your tap water tested for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate for trace amounts at your fish shop. Then there's GH and KH, General Hardness and Carbonate Hardness, which is how soft/hard your water is (if you're in London it should be pretty hard) and the alkalinity of water respectively. Goldfish can take decent amounts of both, but I'm not sure about danios. Do all the fish get sick with weekly changes, or just one set? And what kind of sickness do they have?

Put it this way: you don't want to see symptoms of internal bacteria infection, because it'll be something nasty like pineconing or stuff like that. A good idea would be to incorporate garlic into their diet, as it helps prevent infection. It works up their appetite, too. Sometimes I stuff a small piece of steamed garlic into a pea to feed them. And it's natural and cheap.

Active fish usually is a good sign.

Edited by j0shua
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They seemed to be getting better last night. I fed them peas this morning and now he has a red anus! :( So I'm going to do the five day course that the guy in the fish shop reccomended in the first place. Followed by a 25% water change.

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So you're going to be trying the anti-bacterial med? Do you think you can give the name/the drug used in it so other more experienced members will know what you're using?

In my experience, very few medications are "completely safe" for fish who might not be sick at all, or need to be treated with a different medication. I'd be especially wary of pet store employees, who are there to sell products, and are not experienced with goldfish. Are you sure that you can use this medication on ALL the fish in the tank, including the danios and the goldfish that don't exhibit the same symptoms as the one you are mentioning? Most fish need to be isolated from the main tank for treatment, unless all need the medication.

And before adding medication to a main tank, you also want to do a decent sized water change since some medications react badly with higher nitrates, or are less effective. Your last tank parameters had the nitrates about 25 (not sure how accurate this is, since these are strips), which is a bit higher, you normally want to be 20 or under.

Posting your tank parameters before adding any medication and specifying if you are treating the main tank or have isolated one fish to a hospital tank will definitely help keep good updates so other members who are keeping an eye on your thread will know all the details.

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Well, I followed your guys' advice and it was clearly wrong. Now, please don't think i'm being mean or unappreciative, becuase i valued all (well, most) of your advice and my fish ended up with a bloody anus. As for the shop guy trying to sell me stuff, when i metioned the white poo, he just reccomended me things for constipation (which came to a total of 90p), it was me who mentioned the possibility of a bacterial infection (which he agreed with) and he said this medication could be used just in case, which you guys talked me out of and has let the problem worsen before i could treat it. Now, i really want to stress this because, this being the internet, you can't hear my tone of voice or inflection when you read what i type, but i truly did appreciate your concern and advice. As for the nitrates being too high, even the test kit, which guys just rave about, says it can go all the way up to 50 without there being a problem, so i'm not woried about that. As for reacting badly with nitrates, it would say on the bottle if that were the case; but it's a moot point because, as i said, the nitrates are fine.

I haven't isolated the fish because i have no where to isolate it too, however, all goldfish are showing signs of poop problems now (as in, short trails of poo). Oh, and it's safe to use on the danios (i did check for that).

Today i have seen green, brown and possibly clear poo.

And the medication is called Myxazin.

Day 2 of the 5 day course and the red anus as already cleared up.

Edit: And if this course of action doesn't work, i'm going to use the stuff i did last time which did work (even though by that point they had bloody fins and scales -- so really, it's like i have a head start). The only problem is, it's 1 and a half bottles per dose!

Edited by Pontosfan
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I'm sorry I missed the question above in an earlier post, the bit on difference in water chemistry even if you do treat with water conditioner--I was referring to differences in temperature, pH level. Some tap water even has trace amounts of ammonia in it, depending on the location. It was just a suggestion to make sure all bases are covered, I did not mean to confuse you!

I was just listing cautionary advice for you. Different medications alter water chemistry, so it was just a reminder--it's easy to forget thinking about all those details. I wasn't sure how many fish where experiencing the symptoms, and if you were treating the whole tank or just the one fish. It was nothing to insult your abilities, resources or intelligence.

By the way, feeding peas and fasting recommended by everyone here should not have caused the red swollen vent, it was most likely a bacterial infection already there, but it was something that couldn't be identified by just the fish's behavior and poo at the time. None of the advice here caused a possible bacterial infection.

Just remember that the nitrate requirements are a bit different for goldfish than tropicals as well, higher nitrates, like over 25, can cause SBD prone fish to "flip over". That's why many people here just recommend keeping them at 20 and under. But you're free to do as however you see fit.

The only reason why have to act defensive on this board is because your choice of words are very accusing, you make people feel bad for giving advice that works for them. I was honestly just trying to help. :(

Keep us updated until your treatment is done? I can't give you anything more now. Good luck and hope everyone comes through well!

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By the way, feeding peas and fasting recommended by everyone here should not have caused the red swollen vent, it was most likely a bacterial infection already there, but it was something that couldn't be identified by just the fish's behavior and poo at the time. None of the advice here caused a possible bacterial infection.

Oh no, I am aware of that and I apologise if it seemed otherwise.

The only reason why have to act defensive on this board is because your choice of words are very accusing, you make people feel bad for giving advice that works for them. I was honestly just trying to help. :(

Well, i don't know what else i can do to make you feel better. I said twice(see below) how i appreciated the advice given, if that's not good enough to reassure you then i don't know what is.

Now, please don't think i'm being mean or unappreciative, becuase i valued all (well, most) of your advice and my fish ended up with a bloody anus.
Now, i really want to stress this because, this being the internet, you can't hear my tone of voice or inflection when you read what i type, but i truly did appreciate your concern and advice.

Keep us updated until your treatment is done? I can't give you anything more now. Good luck and hope everyone comes through well!

Thank you.

Today my fish all seem well, with the exception of a few short poo trails which have ranged in colour from brown to light green.

Edited by Pontosfan
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Well, i went away for a few days, but had someone feeding my fish for me but only half as often as i would feed them (because i've seen her feed her feed her fish and it's way too much). Anyway, i came back and looked in on them and they were all swimming about great, lively and they seemed really happy too.

The next day i feed them in the morning as i normally do and almost instanly, my little telescope (percy) had a short trail of poo behind him. It's like it went striaght through him! :S Every so often i see them with a trail of poo (Dizzy, the fish who was the original focus of this thread) more than the others. But still no more white poo and they all still swim around looking very healthy. I've switched the food for some sinking stuff too, like you guys reccomneded.

Also, as far as i can tell, dizzy no longer has a blood anus either.

Could my fish have diorehha (or however you spell it?)?

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