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redfish

Worried About Sprocket

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[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 5

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.4

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.4

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Hagen Nutrafin drop tests for all...API for PH, as Hagen's was not accurate.

[*]Water temperature? 70-75c

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 25g...6 months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? AC 30 and 50

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 50% twice/week

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 fantail. Approx.2-3 inches each

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Nutrafin Aqua Plus water conditioner

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Nutrafin pellets a few each daily and peas once per week after fasting 1 day.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No all three were just added within the month of July

[*]Any medications added to the tank? yes Jungle Parasite clear tank buddies, as a precaution. 2 treatments 48 hours apart with 50% water change before, between and after. Carbon to remove meds after treatment. Sprocket has been displaying this behaviour since we got him, and was one reason for treating with Parasite Clear.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? no

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? This is the behaviour I am worried about.Sprocket mouths rapidly and while doing so jerks backwards. He rests more than the other two on the bottom. The other two do not do this. Should I be concerned? They are all eating well, colours are good, look healthy

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I'm so sorry about Sprocket! :(

Your tank is a bit overstocked with 3 fish in a 25 gallon so the wastes may be contributing to the problem. Do you have any gravel in your tank at all? If so how often do you vacuum it.

You said you got all 3 fish at the same time, did you get them all from the same place? Also have your fish ever been treated for flukes?

If you could get a video of him doing the gulping while swimming backwards that would be great.

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I'll try to get a video now...

Yes, all three came from same store & same tank in store. Got 2, then Sprocket a week later. He was in a new shipment they had just got in though.

Yes, treated with Jungle Parasite clear this past week. As a precaution, had not seen any signs of flukes, etc. Sprockets mouthing & jerking backwards is the only odd thing.

Am aware we are over stocked. I do 50% water changes twice per week, vacuuming up all wastes each time. Water filters doing 350gph. Tank has only a scattering of small river rock on bottom, can see bottom clearly through it. Water is tested twice a week, before water change. Never have any ammonia or nitrites. Nitrates never go above 5.

We are getting a 40g as soon as we find a good deal. :)

Edited by redfish

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I would quarantine Sprocket just because he came from a different shipment, and treat them all for Prazi. Usually you'll want to quarantine and treat a fish for about a month before adding it to the main tank. :o I know it's hard. You can try ordering prazipro online and treating them all for flukes just as a safety precaution. It's usually guaranteed that any fish you get has flukes.

That's excellent news about all the water changes and the no gravel. :D

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Thanks Tay! I know I took a risk, not quarantining. Too late now. But will in the future, have learned my lesson! I am so worried about him. We really have taken to these fish. :) We will only have these three in a 40 (hopefully soon!) No room for more tanks. But I should have got a Rubbermade tub for QT.

Parasite Clear has Prazi in it.

Video of Sprocket's behaviour:

th_Sprocketvideo001.jpg

Edited by redfish

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He's a beautiful fish. Is there any current in the tank from your filters?

Yes definitely get the rubbermaid for QT and I would put him in there just to be safe. With a filter and a bubbler. That way he can rest without having to worry about the other fish.

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I'm not sure about doing a qt right now if you are going 2b treating all with prazi. Since they all need it, they can all share the same tank for the treatment.

I would set up the qt now though, that way if things w/ Sprocket change or when a Mod comes in and sees something you will be ready.

His behavior, to me, looks like he is gulping and the force is pushing him backwards. He immediately went to the top and gulped air. He may be having difficulties w/ his gills. So the prazi will definitely be the way to go at this point.

How long have you had your cycle btw?

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I have seen this behavior before in some of my fish too.

The thing about flukes is that the Prazi cannot kill them in the egg form, and the eggs 'know' when there is Prazi in the water and they will not hatch as long as there is. From the method you used with the parasite clear tabs, it sounds like there was always some of the med in the water, since you only did a 50% change in between doses. Now I'm not blaming you, I know you were only following the directions on the box! The thing is, those directions are not always right. What you will need to do is treat the fish with some form of Prazi. It can be Prazi from goldfishconnection.com, or PraziPro by Hikari, or those parasite clear tabs you already have. The PC tabs are more dangerous though, because they contain other ingredients besides the Prazi. So if you use these, watch your parameters extremely closely during treatment. It can knock down your beneficial bacteria, and please do not use the PC tabs with salt.

You need to let the Prazi be in the water for 3 days. After the 3rd day, do a full (100%) temp and pH matched water change. Then let the fish be in plain clean water for 4 days. Then do another 3 days with Prazi, water change, and 4 days without. Repeat this until you have treated the Prazi 3 times. This should get any flukes under control.

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I'll check MOPS or Big Als (Canada) for the Prazi, and order. But it takes a week for an order to get here (from a few years back when I had goldfish, I used to order food) But in the meantime I'll have to treat with the Parasite Clear again. I'm not going to use a separate tank, because IF it is flukes they are in this tank, so should treat it, and all 3 fish.

But I'll have the correct med (Prazi) for future.

To answer above questions:

Tank has bee cycled since February (with mulm from a friend's established tank, and we had platy for a few months, before rehoming and deciding to get goldfish).

Yes there is current from the filters, but I have it baffled with plastic from pop bottles.

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I think treating them all together is a good idea. I have been able to find the PraziPro (by Hikari) in a couple of the smaller fish stores around my area. Maybe call around, you might be able to find it somewhere as well.

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After looking at our local pet store (only one here...a large chain store). The only thing containing Prazi I could find was the Jungle Buddies at Wal*Mart...pet store had nothing. :(

But there is a new family owned fish only shop that just opened recently, and a reef store, I'll try them.

Thanks for your advice!! I will update with progress...

Edited by redfish

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OK, ordered Hikari PraziPro (2- 1oz bottles...only size Big Als had) and Saki-Hikari pellet food. Hope the Prazi & better quality food leads to healthy, happy fish. :)

Order should come in a week. Should I go ahead with the Parasite Clear now? Or wait until the PraziPro comes?

And should I salt with the PraziPro??

Edited by redfish

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When you dosed with the PC tabs before, did you notice any additional stress signals from the fish (bottom sitting, lethargy, fins clamped, etc.)? Also did the PC tabs cause a cycle bump in your tank when you used them before (elevated ammonia or nitrite levels)? If you answered "no" to both of the above and your ammonia and nitrite levels have consistently been zero, I think you will be okay using the PC tabs for one more dose until the Prazipro arrives. I do not recommend using the PC tabs if you have any ammonia or nitrite showing up though! Just do the dose it recommends on the package and leave it in the tank for three days. Make sure you test your water at least once a day during this time, because ammonia and nitrite might reach dangerous levels (above 0.25). If they do, you will have to do a water change and redose accordingly. After the three days, do a 100% (or close to) water change and add a small packet of activated carbon to the filter box.

P.S. If you have carbon in your filter already, you have to remove it before dosing the medication. It will remove the medication and make all your efforts pointless.

After four days of clean plain water, hopefully your Prazipro will have arrived and you can start using that instead. I hope this helps. Let us know if you have more questions.

EDIT: About using salt with Prazipro... you can, but I prefer to stagger the meds for less stress to the fish. So if I were you, I would first dose the Prazipro and after that whole treatment is over, then start on the salt. JMO I think it is easier this way and also less stress on the fish.

Edited by Sakura

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Thank you so much for your advice, I really appreciate it!

And no, water parameters were not affected at all during previous PC treatment. And fish did not react adversely.

Edited by redfish

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You are very welcome, it is a pleasure to be of help! Good it sounds like you could go ahead with the PC tabs, remembering to be cautious and watch those params. :D

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:( Woke this morning to find Sprocket had died in the night. Poor sweet little guy.

So now I will stick to having just two, Elliot & Boog. I'll continue with current Parasite Clear treatment, and the PraziPro when it arrives. I hope they will be ok!

Definitely a huge lesson learned....quarantine!

:(:(

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Just wanted to say how sorry I am you lost Sprocket. :cry1

You were given some really great advice so hopefully Elliot & Boog will thrive and remain healthy for you. :)

:rip: Sprocket

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I'm so sorry about Sprocket :(

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rip sprocket :(

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I'm so sorry about Sprocket. May he R.I.P. he was beautiful.

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Thank you, yes he was so pretty. I'm heartbroken that I lost him. Lots of "if only" running through my head. :(

I was a little over stocked, should have quarantined, wish I had learned of Prazi sooner, and had ordered some before getting any fish.....

I'm obsessive about water quality & doing water changes, but wasn't enough for Sprocket.

I won't be getting anymore goldfish unless we get a much larger tank. And will be equipped with proper Prazi med.

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The learning curve in goldfish is so hard and sometimes so sad. I'm sorry you lost Sprocket.

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