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bubblyfishy68

Dont Know What To Do

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 15

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.6

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 6

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

[*]Water temperature? 76 degrees fahrenheit

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 46 gallon running 8 months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Fluval 305

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 50% once a week

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 fish: 1 in. ranchu, 3 in. lionhead, 2 in. ryukin, 2 in. oranda, 3 in. moor

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? API stress zyme

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? progold once a day

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? no

[*]Any medications added to the tank? 3rd day of prazi and 1st day feeding medigold

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? bloody streaks and frayed, milky fins on oranda and ryukin; moor has split fins

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? oranda, ryukin bottom sitting

This all started a few days ago when i noticed my oranda and ryukin bottom sitting. They are normally very active fish so i was very worried once i saw them acting like this. Before long, both fish had split fins and red streaks. I did some research and found out that bottom sitting and split fins can be caused by flukes so i put in prazi two days ago. To help with the red streaks, i also salted the tank to .03%. This morning, i noticed their fins were getting milky, a sign of fin rot, so i started to feed medigold. After 3 days on prazi, my oranda is still bottom sitting. Is this normal?

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Red fins is normally problems with a bacterial infection.......

With the filter you have, the tank isnt cycling out the waste fast enough... thats one problem, the other problem is there to many fish in there causing waste. :(

do you have gravel in there or hollow ornaments? If so that might be causing problems too cause the poop can get trapped and causes bacterial problems:(

how many fish in the tank have this....? If so can you get to them into there own tank? and keep treating them?

Just thinking here for you :)

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Do you know how long your tapwater has been that low in pH? Do you have something in your filter to raise it or does it do that itself? I'm always very suspicious of pH :rolleyes: and your tapwater is low. It might not be the primary cause but I do think it would really help with not stressing the fish if you could run a bubbler through a tank/several buckets for a few hours before you add it back into the tank so the pH is much closer to the tank level, matched if possible. You're basically adding a weak acid every time you change the water. I know it's a pain with a tank that size, I have a 46 gallon too and I wouldn't want 20 odd gallons sitting around my living room but it would really help in your case if you can do it.

As Koko said, you are underfiltered and overstocked. Can you get another filter? Doesn't matter too much what type, you just want a total flowrate from all filters of 10x the tank volume per hour, so 460 gallons per hour in your case. Have a look for 2nd hand ones if you're strapped for cash and just get some new filter media :)

I'm not too familiar with medgold but I would be inclined to deal with the water pH, the salt and the prazi to start with rather than bombarding them with 3 different med treatments at once. Just my take on that one, I don't like using med food without actually having narrowed down the problem.

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Red fins is normally problems with a bacterial infection.......

With the filter you have, the tank isnt cycling out the waste fast enough... thats one problem, the other problem is there to many fish in there causing waste. :(

do you have gravel in there or hollow ornaments? If so that might be causing problems too cause the poop can get trapped and causes bacterial problems:(

how many fish in the tank have this....? If so can you get to them into there own tank? and keep treating them?

Just thinking here for you :)

I do have gravel and one hollow ornament. 2 out of 5 fish have the red streaks... i'll try to move them into their own tank...thanks for the advice :)

Edited by bubblyfishy68

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Do you know how long your tapwater has been that low in pH? Do you have something in your filter to raise it or does it do that itself? I'm always very suspicious of pH :rolleyes: and your tapwater is low. It might not be the primary cause but I do think it would really help with not stressing the fish if you could run a bubbler through a tank/several buckets for a few hours before you add it back into the tank so the pH is much closer to the tank level, matched if possible. You're basically adding a weak acid every time you change the water. I know it's a pain with a tank that size, I have a 46 gallon too and I wouldn't want 20 odd gallons sitting around my living room but it would really help in your case if you can do it.

As Koko said, you are underfiltered and overstocked. Can you get another filter? Doesn't matter too much what type, you just want a total flowrate from all filters of 10x the tank volume per hour, so 460 gallons per hour in your case. Have a look for 2nd hand ones if you're strapped for cash and just get some new filter media :)

I'm not too familiar with medgold but I would be inclined to deal with the water pH, the salt and the prazi to start with rather than bombarding them with 3 different med treatments at once. Just my take on that one, I don't like using med food without actually having narrowed down the problem.

Every time i do a water change, i add a conditioner to raise the pH before putting it in the tank. As for another filter, i'll keep an eye out for some second hand ones :)

I'm using medigold because i suspect they have fin rot...the fins are milky and frayed at the tips :(

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How often do you check your pH and what product do you use? Can you check your pH daily for a few days for me? Just want to definitely rule it out :)

I've never seen milky fins before (except in the case of pH crashes!) so I'll let someone else deal with that one ;)

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Are their bodies also milky? like they have a opaque coat on? Otherwise pH issues also cause the slime to shed....

If you do have ornaments are gravel I would really clean them out - you can boil the ornaments. I don't use ornaments as they caused a couple of my fish to get real sick :(

I remember just having read of milky fins.... I think Costia can cause that. But as Sarah said, before thinking of possible illnesses etc you should make sure your pH is under control.

Also, how often do you clean out your filter? Since it is the only one running they tend to need cleaning more often.

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How often do you check your pH and what product do you use? Can you check your pH daily for a few days for me? Just want to definitely rule it out :)

I've never seen milky fins before (except in the case of pH crashes!) so I'll let someone else deal with that one ;)

i check my pH every couple of weeks and i use API pH up...sure i'll check my pH daily... right now it is 7.6

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Are their bodies also milky? like they have a opaque coat on? Otherwise pH issues also cause the slime to shed....

If you do have ornaments are gravel I would really clean them out - you can boil the ornaments. I don't use ornaments as they caused a couple of my fish to get real sick :(

I remember just having read of milky fins.... I think Costia can cause that. But as Sarah said, before thinking of possible illnesses etc you should make sure your pH is under control.

Also, how often do you clean out your filter? Since it is the only one running they tend to need cleaning more often.

Their bodies are not milky, just their fins.

Whenever i siphon the gravel, i make sure to be very thorough. As for the ornaments, i will boil them as soon as i can.

Every week, i rinse all the media and change the polishing pads. Every two weeks i change half of the carbon. As for the biostars, every 2 months, i change about a third of them.

Edited by bubblyfishy68

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Don't change the filter media so often. Leaving it alone is fine unless there is gunk on it that is obstructing the flow of the water in it. When you do rinse you'll want to rinse it in old tank water as to not kill any beneficial bacteria that are aiding along your cycle. You also probably don't need carbon in your filter because you have to replace it so often, and it's usually only used for getting medicine out of the water, plus over time it will eventually leech back impurities into the water.

When you swished your filter media did you do it in tap water?

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Don't change the filter media so often. Leaving it alone is fine unless there is gunk on it that is obstructing the flow of the water in it. When you do rinse you'll want to rinse it in old tank water as to not kill any beneficial bacteria that are aiding along your cycle. You also probably don't need carbon in your filter because you have to replace it so often, and it's usually only used for getting medicine out of the water, plus over time it will eventually leech back impurities into the water.

When you swished your filter media did you do it in tap water?

yes...would that kill my beneficial bacteria?

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just checked my pH...it is 7.6

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Yes it would :( The chlorine in the tap water will kill your beneficial bacteria.

Is the pH 7.6 in your tank or the tap?

Edited by Tay

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never replace your biological media, the bio stars. that is where the bb's live. this is where the cycling is becoming a problem b/c they are being removed from the tank.

carbon should just be pitched out. even though you replace half every two weeks, the other half can leak whatever toxins it originally removed back into the tank.

polishing pads, are these specific like "water softener" or are they just like a sponge/filter floss? If it's the latter they don't need to be removed until they are almost falling apart. Like mentioned above, either use old tank water or dechlorinated tap water and squeeze and rinse them out.

how deep is your gravel? I think about 1/2 to 1 inch is the max as any lower where oxygen cannot penetrate bad bacteria (anaerobic) will build up and become harmful. if you have to remove gravel just do a little at a time w/ each water change as some of the beneficial bacteria do colonize in gravel.

could you describe your hollow ornament? the problem w/ these are they will trap gases and also become breeding grounds for bad bacteria. when they are removed from the tank these nasties will then be exposed to your fish. when removing it for cleaning I recommend taking out your fish so that it will not be exposed to whatever toxins, and waste that come out.

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Yes it would :( The chlorine in the tap water will kill your beneficial bacteria.

Is the pH 7.6 in your tank or the tap?

pH 7.6 in my tank

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never replace your biological media, the bio stars. that is where the bb's live. this is where the cycling is becoming a problem b/c they are being removed from the tank.

carbon should just be pitched out. even though you replace half every two weeks, the other half can leak whatever toxins it originally removed back into the tank.

polishing pads, are these specific like "water softener" or are they just like a sponge/filter floss? If it's the latter they don't need to be removed until they are almost falling apart. Like mentioned above, either use old tank water or dechlorinated tap water and squeeze and rinse them out.

how deep is your gravel? I think about 1/2 to 1 inch is the max as any lower where oxygen cannot penetrate bad bacteria (anaerobic) will build up and become harmful. if you have to remove gravel just do a little at a time w/ each water change as some of the beneficial bacteria do colonize in gravel.

could you describe your hollow ornament? the problem w/ these are they will trap gases and also become breeding grounds for bad bacteria. when they are removed from the tank these nasties will then be exposed to your fish. when removing it for cleaning I recommend taking out your fish so that it will not be exposed to whatever toxins, and waste that come out.

polishing pads are like a filter floss...they keep the water cleaner by removing small particles

my gravel is about 1 in deep

my hollow decoration is a plastic bamboo structure with a hole in the bottom

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update on my fishies...they are bottom sitting alot less but started flashing a bit...unfortunately, the frayed fins and red streaks are showing no sign of improvement... fish are eating like pigs and actively exploring tank...just worried about their fins

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your tank pH is 7.6, tap is 6. This means you should be raising the tap to 7.6 before doing water changes. fluctuations in pH are stressful in fish and can be extremely problematic in some cases. In your case your pH is getting higher, not lower, this is better then the opposite. I'll pm someone who I think can help you work on this problem.

do you think you'd be able to seal the bamboo ornament?

also, Koko mentioned your filter doesn't have enough gph, were you planning on upgrading/adding to it? Your cycle should become more steady once you change your maintenance routine, but you still need to get more water flowing per hour for that size of a tank.

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Hello! Martha PMed me about the pH, so here is my best attempt at explaining it. :) But first I'd like to ask you, what is the product you use to raise the pH before adding it to the aquarium? This will be helpful to know because some of those products are very unreliable and dangerous.

A while back I found out that my tap water has a stable pH of 7.4, but for some reason my tanks had a stable pH of 8.4. I found out this is because the water that comes out of the tap is supersaturated with gasses (CO2 being one of them), and as the water sits out with an airstone the CO2 leaves the water and raises the pH (makes is more alkaline). So what you can try is fill up a bucket with your tap water and place an airstone in there. After about 4-6 hours check the pH of the water, and if it has risen to the pH of your tank water, that is how you should do your water changes from now on. The night before you want to do a water change you can fill up a large container with the amount of water to be changed and put an airstone in there. Then the next day you can use that water to fill your tank with. I now use a large 44 gallon trash container, but you can use anything from a spare glass aquarium to a rubbermaid tub. If you use a plastic container check to make sure the plastic is labeled 2, 4, or 5 (in the little recycling logo). Anything else is not safe to use because it will leach contaminants into the water. I hope this helps :)

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your tank pH is 7.6, tap is 6. This means you should be raising the tap to 7.6 before doing water changes. fluctuations in pH are stressful in fish and can be extremely problematic in some cases. In your case your pH is getting higher, not lower, this is better then the opposite. I'll pm someone who I think can help you work on this problem.

do you think you'd be able to seal the bamboo ornament?

also, Koko mentioned your filter doesn't have enough gph, were you planning on upgrading/adding to it? Your cycle should become more steady once you change your maintenance routine, but you still need to get more water flowing per hour for that size of a tank.

Yeah i think i can seal the ornament...but with what?

I am planning to upgrade or add another filter once i get a chance...i've been keeping a fish savings container and i plan to buy a new filter once i have enough money

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Hello! Martha PMed me about the pH, so here is my best attempt at explaining it. :) But first I'd like to ask you, what is the product you use to raise the pH before adding it to the aquarium? This will be helpful to know because some of those products are very unreliable and dangerous.

A while back I found out that my tap water has a stable pH of 7.4, but for some reason my tanks had a stable pH of 8.4. I found out this is because the water that comes out of the tap is supersaturated with gasses (CO2 being one of them), and as the water sits out with an airstone the CO2 leaves the water and raises the pH (makes is more alkaline). So what you can try is fill up a bucket with your tap water and place an airstone in there. After about 4-6 hours check the pH of the water, and if it has risen to the pH of your tank water, that is how you should do your water changes from now on. The night before you want to do a water change you can fill up a large container with the amount of water to be changed and put an airstone in there. Then the next day you can use that water to fill your tank with. I now use a large 44 gallon trash container, but you can use anything from a spare glass aquarium to a rubbermaid tub. If you use a plastic container check to make sure the plastic is labeled 2, 4, or 5 (in the little recycling logo). Anything else is not safe to use because it will leach contaminants into the water. I hope this helps :)

The product i use is API pH up

That is very helpful...i'll make sure to do my water changes this way from now on...thanks :D

Edited by bubblyfishy68

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hi bubblyfishy,

how are they doing today?

helen

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hi bubblyfishy,

how are they doing today?

helen

fish are still active and eating like piggies but red streaks and fin loss are still not letting up...

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I would take that ornament out ASAP. There is probably something nasty going on under there. If you do have hollow ornaments they need to be cleaned out multiple times a week. Bad bacteria can get caught in there which makes things bad for your fish.

As for sealing them up you can use hard plastic and then cover the hole up by sticking the hard plastic in place with Aquarium sealant. Make sure you let it sit for awhile first though.

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