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Sakura

Momo

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ammonia: 0

nitrite: 0

nitrate: less than 10

pH: 8.4

-75 gallon tank with 1000 gph HOB filtration, large bubble wand, and four fish all around 5 inches.

-50% weekly water changes

-They eat a homemade gel food and are fasted one day each week

I have noticed that Momo has been bottom sitting a lot within the past few days which is not normal for him at all. I was hoping that things would improve after the 50% water change I did last night, but he still seems off. I cleaned out one filter box and all the filter tubes, and I'm going to clean the other filter box next week. They are not very dirty though because I clean them regularly. I can't think of any reason he'd be acting lethargic, because I haven't changed anything lately. I'm worried about possible contamination from the tank Suki and Yoshi were in, but I was extremely careful so I kinda doubt that happened. The worry-wort in me is still worried about the possibility though. Today I noticed that his scales are starting to lift just on one side. He also seems like his right side (where the lifted scales are) is bulging out more than his left side. It's horribly reminiscent of what happened to Suki before she died. D:

Could it just be something like constipation? Should I try fasting him and then feeding him peas? Or is something else starting up? Parasites, bacteria...?

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Edited by Sakura

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Oh No Sakura,how about some epsom in a pea?I have heard that helps a bit more sometimes,I agree it does look like just the one side :( I hope he feels better asap,and your absolutely sure Momo is a Male right?no chance it's a female and full of eggs??

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Oh no! Shellbell is right about one epsom grain hidden in a pea if he could eat that it will flush him out a lot quicker so we could see if it is just constipation.

If you remember on your thread about Suki and Yoshi Imo said that scale lifting on one side can be caused by parasites.

I would rule out the constipation and then if he doesn't improve you can decide on your next move. Maybe even PM Imo. Do you have any MM or Jungle anti parasite food on hand?

I'm so sorry about this you really didn't need this right now. :hug

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I wish you and Momo the best. Idk what's going on w/ him, so I just wanted 2 stop in and send support. :hug

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Thanks for the replies guys :) I'll try the epsom grain in a pea idea and see if that helps. I have Jungle anti-parasite food and also anti-bacterial food on hand that are both relatively new, but I could always buy a new bottle too. That stuff is not too expensive. And I PM'ed Imo right when I made this thread, so hopefully she will check in. I am not too worried yet, but Momo is my favorite so I'm a little bit nervous about how this could turn out. Hopefully it's no big deal.

Oh and I'm 99% sure he's a boy. He had breeding stars all over his gills and pectoral fins, but they are not showing right now. I have read that in rare occasions females can have those too though, but I think that's kinda rare.

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Hope Momo gets well soon, Sakura.

Also, can someone please explain to me what Epsom salt in a pea does? I understand what it does externally, when dissolved in tank water, by helping draw out fluids. Can't really imagine what it does internally, though.

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Hope Momo gets well soon, Sakura.

Also, can someone please explain to me what Epsom salt in a pea does? I understand what it does externally, when dissolved in tank water, by helping draw out fluids. Can't really imagine what it does internally, though.

Epsom salt is also a laxative. Sooo.:rolleyes:

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Sakura,is it still really hot there? Do you know the tank temp?

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It is really hot, but we are fortunate to have AC :) The tank temp is 78.

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Ahhhhhhhh,good ;) Just trying to rule things out :exactly I'll keep my fingers crossed for mild constipation :goodluck

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I can see the slight scale lifting, but only because you took an excellent photo. I think it is really something I wouldn't have noticed otherwise. I would try the pea trick and wait and see. Hold off on the meds until you have some evidence for sure they are needed.

I wouldn't worry too much about cross contamination in this case (though it is smart to be careful). Because these fish came from the same source, odds are they have been exposed to the same things at some point. And odds are that shipping stress are what is responsible for poor Suki, so I am pretty sure that can't be contagious. But I am really just thinking out loud here.

Most importantly, get back to normal Momo.

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Just stopping by to see how Momo's feeling this morning?I do hope better :)

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Hi Shellbell, thanks for checking in. Last night I gave Momo a pea half with a grain of epsom in it, and this morning he still looks bad, so I don't think it helped his problem. He's still sitting on the bottom a lot, which is extrememely abnormal for him, and there are a few more scales lifted today. Now I'm really starting to worry :undecided:

Also he has been losing some of his orange color gradually for the past couple weeks. I think it's normal color change, but now that's he's acting sick it's hard to tell. It's just very slight and almost not noticeable, some of his orange areas are turning to white.

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Oh I am so sorry Sakura. I would watch out, if the color changing is more like ' color fading'... I remember poor Penelope had that on her sides when she got sick.

If he hasn't gotten better I would give him the Jungle AP. That way you are sure to cover both parasites and bacteria. I am pretty sure it isn't very medicine concentrated... I have used it on all my fish ever since the sad event with Penelope... And it is really great. The good thing is that you only feed it 3times a week and the rest you can strengthen his immunity with gel food.

Are you considering Epson? Oh poor guy :undecided:

Just giving ideas here. I am sure you wil get it all sorted soon!

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Thanks, yeah it's hard to tell if the color is fading or if it's just normal color change. I'm trying to wait to do anything with meds until I hear from Imo. It seems like there may be parasites involved (but I don't know whether internal or external) since only one area of his scales are lifting. I just don't know.

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Oh Sakura I was so hoping it was just constipation :( and the pea/Epsom would do the trick...But with the scales lifting just on the one side and now possible color change/fading I just don't know :( you have pm'd a mod right??I do hope you can get to the bottom of this asap so no more time is wasted for poor momo :( maybe CFG has the right idea with the jungle AP just in case:) Fingers and fins crossed over here for Momo :)

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Yeah I already PMed Imo, but she must be busy. Maybe I should PM someone else too :hmm

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It couldn't hurt ;) I think I wouldn't want to waste any time :( How about Hidr or Chrissy_bee?

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Sorry Sakura Ive been sick.

I am really confused about what is going on in your tanks. It is so terrible that all your fish are getting sick and nothing seems to be working :(

Parasites tend to be more "everyone gets hit" than bacteria -more selective.

Shipping injury can allow many microorganisms to enter extra fast..

Perhaps you are being too careful about cleaning and keeping the filter media too well rinsed? I am just throwing out ideas as I really am a bit lost here.

If it is partial scale lifting plus bottom sitting I would use meds now.

What are you treating the other fish with? Didn't Ken mention greens and meth blue?

Findus is right about the pale color, it means his immune response (half of it in the skin surface layers) is worn down.

A quick update and summary of all your fishes condition right now would be great :)

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Sorry you've been sick Imo, hope you feel better soon if you don't already :)

I have:

-Fuu in her own cycled 10g tank.

-Yoshi (new ryukin) in his own cycled 29g tank and he is getting Furan-2 right now. I will do a half or quarter dose of the meth blue probably tomorrow because he isn't looking better yet.

-Momo, Isis, Toad and Peach in the 75g. There has not been any medications in this tank for a long time, and the only thing I've ever used on them is Prazi. They've all been perfectly healthy since they arrived a few months ago, so this is a real puzzle. How can the filters be too clean as long as the bacteria are not disturbed and the parameters are all still good? Just wondering.

What meds do you think I should use for Momo, and should I treat the others with it too just in case? The ryukins don't appear sick, but Toad has not quite been himself. He is more quiet lately and doesn't "show off" his fins as much. I don't know how else to describe it because it's not like he's clamping his fins, he's just not as robust looking as before I guess. I also noticed that one of his pelvic fins is kind of eroded looking. It's smooth, not ragged edges, but it's like the areas in between the rays are a little bit eroded or something. But it's just that one fin. Then Peach has been hanging out near the surface a lot. Not gulping or anything, just hanging out there. Isis is the only one acting normal, and in fact she's seems better than normal lately because she never bottom sits anymore. She used to a little bit, which I thought was because of the current, but it could have also been overfeeding. (I'm feeding them less now than I was before.) I hope that answers things, but let me know if you need more info :)

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:o He is looking more pine-coned! I need to know what med to start... I have jungle anti-parasite and anti-bacterial. I also have medi-gold. I'm worried :(

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I'm sure Imo will be on soon to recommend what meds. But if you don't have metro meds then the Jungle anti parasite food is probably what she'll recommend since it contains metro in it. If she does recommend it you will need to feed it exclusively for at least 14 days straight. But wait until she stops by to confirm this.

Keeping fingers crossed for you and Momo. :heart

Edit: Do you have any salt in his tank right now?

Edited by caitie

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Thank you Edith, that's kinda what I was thinking too. It's so hard to wait to hear from someone when he looks so sad like this. But I have learned from experience... it is much better to wait for the go-ahead than to try something without fully knowing what I'm doing! I did not know that it had to be fed exclusively, I thought that was only the AB food. I thought that the AP food was 3 days a week or something like that? Please do correct me if I'm wrong though, I want to do things right!

No, there's no salt right now.

Edited by Sakura

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If you feed it for parasites then you give it 3 days on 4 days off but for dropsy you want the fish to get as much of the meds as possible so you feed it everyday for 14 days at least.

Do you have a cycled qt tank for Momo if needed? :)

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Oh okay I see, thanks for explaining that :)

I don't have any spare QT tanks at the moment, they are all full. He can still get around in the main tank though, and he still responds well to food. It doesn't seem like he needs to be separated. He just sits and looks very sad all through the day until feeding time. It seems like he also tries to hide behind one of the plants which is very worrisome.

p.s. If it turns out that I do need to separate him I can work something out. But I'm kinda worried about them all and thinking they could all benefit from some kind of treatment because they haven't been quite 100% lately as I explained a couple posts above :(

Edited by Sakura

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