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Flashing Behavior


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[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? <5

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? pH 8.2, GH 20

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? pH 8.2

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

[*]Water temperature? 76F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 40 gallons, running 4 months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Eheim ECCO 2236

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 50% every 2 weeks, vacuuming gravel

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 fish, 2 inches long

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? API Tap Water Conditioner, iron/manganese supplement for live plants

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Sinking Hikari, bloodworms, baby shrimp, or peas once a day.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? no

[*]Any medications added to the tank? Just added Melafix

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Anal fins looking a bit ratty, slightly white/gray film around the mouth but not fuzzy like typical Flexibacter.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Occasional flashing behavior then excessive hovering in one place. Still eating.

Hello everyone!

Okay, so perhaps my case isn't quite at emergency status but still looking for some advice. Yesterday I noticed my fish flashing and became concerned. Tested the water just in case but the parameters look great. He did seem a bit constipated though so I decided to turn off the automatic pellet feeder and just give him some peas. Well today isn't better. Still flashing, and I've noticed his anal fins look a bit ratty and he has just the slightest whitish film around his mouth but certainly not fuzzy/hairy. Also, I think he's bent one of his scales, probably from flashing. I had some Melafix on hand and just put in the first dose.

What do you all think it might be and what else could I do?

Because of the mouth/fin issues I'm thinking hey, this ...might be Flexibacter, but it hasn't taken on any of the obvious woolly appearance. Also, if I am dealing with some bacterial infection I'd like to cool the tank a bit but in Southern California in July its kind of impossible.

Thanks for reading!

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I would take the melafix out and do a large water change. You should be doing weekly water changes of about 50-70% What kind of goldfish is he? A Fancy or a common?

Have you noticed him yawning while he was flashing?

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I would take the melafix out and do a large water change. You should be doing weekly water changes of about 50-70% What kind of goldfish is he? A Fancy or a common?

Have you noticed him yawning while he was flashing?

Nope, no yawning.

He's a Black Moor.

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hi there,

just out of curiosity.. you say your nitrate level is <5.. do you mean -5 or 5? i am trying to determine if your tank/filter is cycled..

the ph level is great from tap & tank, so i don't see that to be an issue..

could you possibly post pics of the mouth and anal fins so a mod or mod helper can gain a better understanding of what they're dealing with here?

also, if your tank/filter is not cycled, you should be doing daily waterchanges.. if cycled, you should be doing weekly waterchanges..

thank you for filling out the information in the box above.. if you can forward the pics of the affected areas that would be most helpful..

good luck..

helen

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hi there,

just out of curiosity.. you say your nitrate level is <5.. do you mean -5 or 5? i am trying to determine if your tank/filter is cycled..

the ph level is great from tap & tank, so i don't see that to be an issue..

could you possibly post pics of the mouth and anal fins so a mod or mod helper can gain a better understanding of what they're dealing with here?

also, if your tank/filter is not cycled, you should be doing daily waterchanges.. if cycled, you should be doing weekly waterchanges..

thank you for filling out the information in the box above.. if you can forward the pics of the affected areas that would be most helpful..

good luck..

helen

The nitrates are less than 5ppm. Pretty sure my tank is cycled at this point because months ago I went through all the sequential ammonia --->nitrite ---> nitrate peaks. For at least the last 6 weeks, the ammonia/nitrite have been zero and I've been getting very low nitrate readings, even right before water changes. The plants I think have been doing a great job removing the nitrates from the system.

I'll see what kind of pics I can get later tonight.

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well then, what a handsome little fella :wub:

i have two blackmoor's.. here is a pic of mine... and keep reading (or you'll fall in love too! :rofl )

david-hangover.jpg

now, as you can see from my pic, he too has a kinda whitish film around is mouth and nostrils.. this is quite normal, my other moor is the same, so i am not going to be concerned about this right now..

in you pictures you've posted, i see something on the side of his body.. whitish, is that new? do you recall seeing it before? does it look like it could be slime coat peeling off? or something floating around in the tank. to me it seems a little suss as it's too consistent in both seperate photos.

his eyes, colour, finns, mouth, nostrils, gill plates all look great.. so does his body shape and round belly...

you are concerned about his anal fins, perhaps he's just a little stressed, sometimes finns will show ratty as a result of stress..

with nitrates at below 0 and fortnightly water changes, i am afraid your tank is not cycled.. you will need to do daily water changes to combat the noncycled tank. this is my opinion.. re the flashing, related to flukes most likely.. i will pm a mod and see if they can pick up from here and most likely prazi will be the way to go there.

as tay advised. no more melafix.. it's most likely not the med to use.. so large waterchange today, and tomorrow to remove the med and to assist in cycling your tank..

hang in there, you're doing well.. we will be back.. :heart

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What a lovely fish! Has he been treated for flukes before?

Awwww, why thank you! No, he's never been treated for flukes. But its been over 4 months, absolutely nothing new has been introduced from an outside source. Can it take that long before a fluke infection presents?

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well then, what a handsome little fella :wub:

i have two blackmoor's.. here is a pic of mine... and keep reading (or you'll fall in love too! :rofl )

now, as you can see from my pic, he too has a kinda whitish film around is mouth and nostrils.. this is quite normal, my other moor is the same, so i am not going to be concerned about this right now..

in you pictures you've posted, i see something on the side of his body.. whitish, is that new? do you recall seeing it before? does it look like it could be slime coat peeling off? or something floating around in the tank. to me it seems a little suss as it's too consistent in both seperate photos.

his eyes, colour, finns, mouth, nostrils, gill plates all look great.. so does his body shape and round belly...

you are concerned about his anal fins, perhaps he's just a little stressed, sometimes finns will show ratty as a result of stress..

with nitrates at below 0 and fortnightly water changes, i am afraid your tank is not cycled.. you will need to do daily water changes to combat the noncycled tank. this is my opinion.. re the flashing, related to flukes most likely.. i will pm a mod and see if they can pick up from here and most likely prazi will be the way to go there.

as tay advised. no more melafix.. it's most likely not the med to use.. so large waterchange today, and tomorrow to remove the med and to assist in cycling your tank..

hang in there, you're doing well.. we will be back.. :heart

Oh your little Moor is so adorable! :heart

Good to know that mouth whiteness is probably nothing to worry about. Whew.

That thing on his side appears to be a scale that got bent. Wasn't there this morning and looked exactly like that this evening when I got home from work.

As for my tank cycling, I'll start from the beginning. When I first got started, I had the fish and plants in the tank. Fish got ich, had to take the plants out to the mini spare tank to salt the main. Spent two months dealing with Nitrite problems until finally, I got that Nitrate spike, easily to 80ppms. Did frequent water changes and testing the next few weeks, water parameters were perfect (0 ammonia/nitrites) and the Nitrates creeped up slowly like they should. Then I added the plants back again and the Nitrates stopped creeping. I assume they're digesting it as fertilizer. And that's how the last two months have gone. So at this point, I'm assuming my tank is cycled. The Nitrates at the moment are somewhere between 0 and 5ppms.

In any case, I'm still doing a big water change. I know that could never hurt and always help.

BTW if it turns out I do need to dose with Prazi, could it be done in the spare tank? And if not, will it kill my filter bacteria?

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i think prazi is mild enough to use in the main tank and not bother the cycle.. however, here in australia, we are not privy to meds, so i am not experienced enough to guide you on that.. i have pm'd a mod to check your post and see where they can advise. and hopefully they will reply soon. i believe getting the melafix out of the water is the best thing for now..

can i ask, your filter, do you currently have carbon in it?

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i think prazi is mild enough to use in the main tank and not bother the cycle.. however, here in australia, we are not privy to meds, so i am not experienced enough to guide you on that.. i have pm'd a mod to check your post and see where they can advise. and hopefully they will reply soon. i believe getting the melafix out of the water is the best thing for now..

can i ask, your filter, do you currently have carbon in it?

Nope, no carbon.

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okay.. that means that the melafix has no other way of getting out of there other than waterchanges.. so do the waterchanges and hopefully a mod will be along.. i have to go out now.. and i won't be back for 3-4 hours.. don't forget to use only your water conditioner when replacing the water and to match the temperature and the ph level..

but :iwill in no time..

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Great advice from everyone :)

Id just like to add one more thing. It does sound like you are cycled and this isnt too serious but the missing scale and the white mouth can indicate high organics. Thats not nitrates -just a general build up of bacteria...and yes that may include flex as its a common tank bac...all these bacteria and organics are not harmful unless they get to high numbers..some are actually good as the fish need to be exposed like a vaccine to all of them in low doses.

I am wondering about media. When did you rinse the bioballs in your Eheim (I have one of the same kind) and how about the pipes? Those Eheim pipes collect bacteria bad. You can take them off and swill them in 1-10 parts bleach and it will not affect your cycle if you rinse the bioballs et al on a diff day.

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Great advice from everyone :)

Id just like to add one more thing. It does sound like you are cycled and this isnt too serious but the missing scale and the white mouth can indicate high organics. Thats not nitrates -just a general build up of bacteria...and yes that may include flex as its a common tank bac...all these bacteria and organics are not harmful unless they get to high numbers..some are actually good as the fish need to be exposed like a vaccine to all of them in low doses.

I am wondering about media. When did you rinse the bioballs in your Eheim (I have one of the same kind) and how about the pipes? Those Eheim pipes collect bacteria bad. You can take them off and swill them in 1-10 parts bleach and it will not affect your cycle if you rinse the bioballs et al on a diff day.

I serviced my filter about 3 weeks ago. Opened up the canister and rinsed everything in tank water then dumped out all the sludge. I also gave the hoses a bit of a scrub with a brush.

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Okay, so update on fishie. (Geeze I really need to come up with a name for it at this point)

His status is exactly the same as yesterday. He's picking through the gravel and isn't too listless but is still flashing. Bent scale and ratty anal fins are looking pretty much the same as yesterday.

I'm about to do a massive water change/gravel vacuum.

What's everyone's thought on dosing the tank with Prazi? I'm about to get on the phone and call a few places to at least source some out. I think the only thing the local mmm carries is some combo medicine with Prazi.

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I would definitely dose with prazi only since he has never been treated before. The fact is, every fish you get is likely to have flukes, and they multiply so quickly that this can happen without an owner even realizing what was wrong. When you call ask for Prazipro. It is the safest method for treating flukes, and it also smells sweet like fresh donuts when you put it in the tank :lol

Here's a method most people here use to treat for flukes.

Day 1 -- remove carbon, perform water change with vacuuming, and add Prazi to tank

Day 2 -- add Prazi

Day 3 -- do nothing

Day 4 -- do nothing

Day 5 -- do nothing

Day 6 -- add Prazi

Day 7 -- add Prazi

Day 8 -- normal partial water change with vacuuming

Day 14 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 21 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 28 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 35 - normal partial water change, add carbon, treatment is complete

Prazi deactivates itself after 3 days so that's why doubling up on the dosage is good for killing the fluikes. You'll want to make sure you vacuum the gravel if you have any to get rid of any eggs so that you don't miss any flukes when you treat for them.

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I would definitely dose with prazi only since he has never been treated before. The fact is, every fish you get is likely to have flukes, and they multiply so quickly that this can happen without an owner even realizing what was wrong. When you call ask for Prazipro. It is the safest method for treating flukes, and it also smells sweet like fresh donuts when you put it in the tank :lol

Here's a method most people here use to treat for flukes.

Day 1 -- remove carbon, perform water change with vacuuming, and add Prazi to tank

Day 2 -- add Prazi

Day 3 -- do nothing

Day 4 -- do nothing

Day 5 -- do nothing

Day 6 -- add Prazi

Day 7 -- add Prazi

Day 8 -- normal partial water change with vacuuming

Day 14 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 21 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 28 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 35 - normal partial water change, add carbon, treatment is complete

Prazi deactivates itself after 3 days so that's why doubling up on the dosage is good for killing the fluikes. You'll want to make sure you vacuum the gravel if you have any to get rid of any eggs so that you don't miss any flukes when you treat for them.

Tay,

Thank you so much! I read up on Prazi and it should be fine on the filter bacteria and my plants, wonderful. And the smell of donuts is always a plus.

I just vacuumed the gravel, changed out most of the water :mytank1:

I think you guys sold me on weekly water changes, even if I don't have a nitrate problem. It's kind of amazing how much sludge accumulates, even though it's only been 6 days since my last tank cleaning.

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You're doing very well :D Water changes are so essential and your fish act so much happier after one too. Plus the water changes get out the growth hormones that they put into the water. These hormones inhibit growth and the clean water allows them to grow more easily.

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Sometimes the fish will act worse after the dosage, it means the medicine is working and they will soon get better. Just for future reference always quarantine and prazi a new fish to prevent fluke outbreaks.

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Has it been two days with the prazi? Wait another day then do a big water change with a vacuum and then re-dose again. This is very strange :(

Edited by Tay
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Hi there! I just caught up on the thread, and I must say, Tay has been giving you great advice! :)

I just wanted to reassure you that it seems like this is normal behavior for a fish with flukes. It sometimes takes a few doses (and a few weeks) for them to stop flashing. You can also add a low dosage of salt to help with the fin problems that you are having. Salt at 0.1% shouldn't have any affect on your plants. :)

:goodluck

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