Jump to content

New Goldfish Looking Clamped And Looking Sad


Choons

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

[0]Ammonia Level?

[0]Nitrite Level?

[0]Nitrate level?

[8.5]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[8.3]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[interpet Master liquid test kit (Drops)]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[22 Deg C ]Water temperature?

[30 uk gallons been running for 4 years]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[eheim ecco pro canister filter for 100-200 Liter Tanks. My tank is 136 liters ]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

[10-20% a week]How often do you change the water and how much?

[2]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[Tetra Aquasafe]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[flake food every other day alge wafers once a week]What do you feed your fish and how often?

Any new fish added to the tank? [yes]

Any medications added to the tank? [yes King british fin & Fungus control]

Hello,

Im a new Member here looking for sugestions.

I have had my tank for about 4 years and my last surving goldfish was looking very tired/bored and a little bit raggy looking. He has been with me for the last 4 years, the last of which was on his own.

I thought i would give him a little treat and get him some new scenery and see if i could get his fins looking a little less raggy, and look into getting him a buddy.

I have given the tank a small dose of fin rot treatment and a day later i can see his fins are looking a little better. so i followed the instructions and the next day i added some more. He started to look much better though some of the big tears in his tail still remain.

I have stopped the treatment at this point and 2 days later did my 20%water change as im unsure how safe it is to carry on as i dont want to kill good things in the tank. The treatment says to keep adding every 24 hours untill better.

So things for my white commet are looking good :) I took out some of the old decorations and found some deco/plants i liked at the pet store and washed them in tap water and had fun aranging things.

The next day i did a water test and all looked well so i went and found him an orange and black friend a similar size of about 4 inch body. After letting the bag float for 30 mins i started to pour tank water in to let him adjust, when he eventually got in the tank he looked in mint condition and was exploring the new tank within a few mins.

within 24 hours i could see him showing signs of thrashing against things and his fins are clamped and have started to split. My white commet is looking great. The following morning there was a giant white 10-12inch long poop hooked on a log and another chunky white string tangled up in a plant. meaning internal infection? Not really sure what to do but i have been doing a water change every day or two since the new fish was put in. and i havent seen any more white poo yet either.

Any thoughts or sugestions to what i am doing wrong would be great :)

Some pics and a video of my tank :)

Enjoy :P

19072010018.jpg

17072010012.jpg

17072010017.jpg

17072010014.jpg

Click below for a video

th_17072010012-1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I know your nitrate readings might be zero, probably caused by your plants (my tank's the same), but goldfish produce a growth hormone into the water which can only be removed with water changes and if it's not can cause the fish to stunt, they're insides keep growing and their outside don't. It can make them seriously ill and causes premature death. I recommend you start doing your weekly water changes at around 70% as since adding your new fish you are over stocked.

I think he'll also improve if you get some vitamin C into his diet, there's very little nutrition in flake food. Try feeding him some peas (microwave them for a few seconds with a little bit of tank water then deshell them and chuck them in - make sure there's no salt on the ingredients) and look for a good quality sinking pellet food. Saki-Hikari is my favourite but the pellets might be a bit small for him. Maybe the koi version which comes in bigger pellets would be better.

As you didn't quarentine your new fish it's probably worth treating for flukes and ich as new fish are notorious for bringing problems to an established tanks from the fish stores. You don't need any meds from a box in the pet store. They're a concoction of very harsh chemicals and often do more harm than good. The best thing is aquarium salt and prazi (which you can't get in the UK but you can get Wormer Plus which does pretty much the same thing!) and they'll cover you for most things.

Do a big water change and get some veg into the pair of them and we'll go from there :)

Welcome to Koko's ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Welcome!

sorry you are having issue - just a question - the orange fish doesn't have a spot on his anal fin right? is that just the camera?

I would also do a salt regimen since you didn't QT the new fish...

I agree with Sarah - larger weekly water changes will really help - make sure you get into all that gravel.

good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks for the quick replys, I will do a large water change in a few mins :)

I cant tell if its a white dot or if its the natural white colour of the fins as they hardly leave his side. I think its just the skin colour though.

I will go change the water and see how it goes

cheers :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Ok

So i did a large water change yesterday and today i can see a whiteish stuff over his body is this ich? hes defo not a happy chappy and i think hes going to hurt himself if he keeps thrashing about :(

hes not eating either, just spits it out. poor thing :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hmmm can you check your tap and tank pH again for me? It sounds like something relating to his slimecoat, which is often a sign of a pH crash. Make sure you use the high and normal pH tests if you can. Ich is little white grains like salt or sugar that first appear usually on the tail and fins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

20072010019.jpg

The left is tank water and the right is tap water.

This looks about the same at it always has looked tho.

I got an air powered sponge filter rated for 10g tanks a few days ago to use as an extra boost to the current canister filter so when this has matured it should help a little. what kind of temp should i be looking to keep them at? I cant do much to lower the temp as its been so warm this summer. my tank is around 24-25 deg C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

your temp is good. It doesn't look like you have a huge difference in tap + tank pH - then again, your test kit has HUGE scale jumps. Did he looks slimy white strand of stuff when you did the water change?

I have a tap pH of 7 and a tank of 8.6... SO what I do is I age the tap water in a rubber tub with an airstone for 5-6hrs. then it totally matches the tank :rolleyes: I think it is CO2 in the tap that takes the pH down. Maybe you should try doing a w/c this way?

Can we have pictures??? I thought I had seen a white spot in the picture of the fish...

this is what ich looks like,

My link

however a pic would help, as it could also be fungus.

best of luck!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

:welcome & we're glad to have you!

great advice has been given so far. keep up with the larger dechlorinated, pH and temp matched water changes. How do you change the water? Is it with a hose with a gravel attachment? How often do you clean the ornaments in the tank?--are any of them hollow? and is that real or fake log?

also have you started on the salt treatment?

the deshelled peas are a great addition to their diet, and even try steamed broccoli florets. goldfish really love their veggies!

the poop you described sounds like stress poop, and with the clamped fins it shows he is stressed. Did you add the fish directly to the tank with your hands or did you add him in with the tank water?

Sorry for all my questions but I'm confident once we get some more info and cross things off we can help him out. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I think a little bit of salt would help here, we'll start with raising the level to 0.1% just to get you started. Before you do this do a big water change, it makes things a lot simpler, and make sure you hoover the gravel with your siphon (I assume you're using some sort of gravel hose thing) really well to get all the muck out. If you've not done this in a while, remove the fish to a bucket or plastic box first just incase any nasty poisonous gases get released (nitrogen and sulphur dioxide), if they come into contact with a fish's gills they can kill pretty much instantly.

You need aquarium salt, you can get API Aquarium Salt in cartons a bit like fruit juice cartons in blue and pink from Pets at Home and Maidenhead Aquatics, Pets at Home only do the smaller cartons, MA do the bigger ones. I would get 2 small ones or 1 big one as you have quite a big tank. You're not going to need all of it at once but I know my 40 gallon tank needs about 3/4 of a box smaller than the API small carton (different brand salt from internet) for each 0.1% so it's good to have it in. It's not hugely expensive, I think my big box from MA is about 1kg and cost ?8, will last aaaaages!

What you need to do is boil the kettle, measure out 34 teaspoons of salt into a big jug or a saucepan (this is one teaspoon per US gallon of tank water, and yours is about 34 US gallons :) ) Add the boiling water to the salt so the jug/saucepan is about 2/3 full and stir until the salt's dissolved, it might take a while. Then add some cold water so it's not boiling anymore, just warm, don't want to burn the fish, and pour it into the tank by the filter outlet so it gets spread out quickly through the tank. Hopefully this will help with the slimecoat problem and will also help start to tackle any possible parasites.

After about 24 hours (you can do 12 hours but I prefer to keep it slow to give the fish longer to adjust) repeat the steps for adding salt, this will bring you up to 0.2% and we'll leave it there for a bit and see how they do. You can bring it up to 0.3% but some fish don't like salt that high so if you don't need to I always think it's best not to.

Let us know how they're doing at 0.1% and also when you get to 0.2%, and check your water parameters daily (you can post them too if you like :) ). If they stay at zero you shouldn't have to do a water change until a week after your last water change which will make it much easier. Salt stays in the tank, doesn't evaporate, so when you do your weekly water change you remove the same % of salt as you did water from the tank (50% salt removed with 50% of the water) and you need to remember this to work out how much you need to add in to adjust the salt level back to the previous level or higher and lower as necessary. I'll cover this if it comes up :)

Hopefully this will help and makes sense (yell if it doesn't!), let us know if there's any new symptoms or anything. If you can get some photos of the white gunk on the fish that would be helpful too, one person's white gunk (scary!) is another person's white gunk (meh it's fine) or white gunk (AAAAHHHHH!) and they can all mean different things. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

21072010043.jpg

Morning all, i cant get a good pic with my phone, my webcam is just as bad if not worse lol

this kinda shows a white blotchy look to his sides.

I think i forgot to mention that there is a brislte nose pleco who lives in that log, i never see it and i forgot to mention it. its like hes not there lol I was given it 2 years ago buy an old work friend who had turned his garage into a fish breeding house full of a aquariums. He said it will be fine with my goldfish and it will keep things clean. I hope this isnt a problem.

when i change the water i use a gravel tube and hose and drain it in an old 25 liter de ionized water bottle. Then rinse it out and fill and treat water with tetra aquasafe. The 25L bottle is black so if i leave it in the sun for 20 mins or so it takes the chill off before i add it to the tank. I then use one of these http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=100910 pumps to pump the water slowly back into the tank. This takes about 5 mins to empty the bottle so shouldnt be a sudden change in water and its the perfect size :)

21072010045.jpg

I do live in a hard water area and limescale builds up on our taps and the kettle is just gross.

As for the pleco, i hope this is ok as i have seen various thoughts on the situation and not noticed any problems with him and the other fish fighting.

sombody mentioned the decoratons, i have just got these new ones and the are hollow and been in there about 2 weeks, I cleaned them in tap water before i put them in.

I hope its just a combo of stress and a change in the water over a reasonably short space of time.

I will try the salt and the peas mentioned and see how things go.

thanks for the wealth of info you have been great :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

With your decorations, you need to take them out every week and rinse them to prevent gas build up inside them, one of my fish was being slowly poisoned by sulphur dioxide being formed in a hollow decoration and I was lucky to catch it when I did, the smell of sulphur is quite distinctive. Alternatively you can pack them with dry gravel and seal the bottom with a piece of plastic (CD case or similar) stuck on with aquarium sealant and left to cure for a few days.

As long as your getting the muck out the gravel every water change I think you're ok, I certainly don't envy you having to carry that big container! Mine's about 15 litres and plenty heavy enough. I would check the temperature of the water before you add it to the tank, you want it as close as possible to the tank temperature otherwise you will shock the fish, particularly with the large water changes goldies like. It's not as bad because you pump it in relatively slowly, but it will definitely be a contributing factor to the stress.

The bristlenose pleco shouldn't be a problem unless he's not getting enough to eat, in which case he might turn on the goldies...slimecoat is apparently delicious. Do you feed him at all? If you put some cucumber or courgette or something in the tank at night he should eat it, they're generally nocturnal, and just take it out again in the morning so it doesn't rot and mess up your water. I would try to check up on him, check he's still alive and that he is in fact a bristle nose and not a common, if he's a common pleco you might have a problem, they can skin a sleeping goldfish alive. Bristlenoses are usually absolutely fine as long as they have food smile.gif

Good luck with the salt and peas, hopefully that will be enough and you don't have anything more sinister on your plate, but keep us informed :) The earlier you catch something the easier it is to deal with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Ok so i have done another water change and put enough salt in to treat 5 gallons at 0.1% (5 Teaspoons) it says to add over 3-4 days which would be 30 teaspoons total?!?

21072010046.jpg

21072010047.jpg

I guess its best to start slow, its easy to add more and a pain to take it out lol

After looking for about an hour i managed to find the bristle nose sucking on the inside of the ship and hes still moving so thats a good sign, i have no idea what condition hes in. hes a shy lil guy. I put a few algae wafers in every few days. the goldies normally eat them tho lol

I put some peas in there this morning and the white one had a go but the gold/black one didnt

21072010048.jpg

white fish sat on the bottom looking sad doing a poop after his peas

21072010049.jpg

New goldfish going between thrashing and still periods and not eating

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The salt box directions are a different way of writing what I said. You're starting at tonic level and working up to anti-stress. The spread of 3-4 days is for the higher salt levels, 0.1% at a time is fine and won't stress your fish so just add it in as I directed before smile.gif

Your white fish looks very skinny to me. Can you look into getting a high protein pellet like Saki Hikari or something? Maybe some type of Hikari pond food would be better. It'll help bulk him up, he looks really really thin and being underweight and possibly vitamin deficient will make him weak to infection, particularly if he's on the gravel all the time. It's really important you keep the gravel as clean as possible, there's bacteria live in it that are harmful to fish but don't usually come into contact with them, a sick fish resting on the bottom is vulnerable to them and they can cause secondary infections. One of the many reasons a lot of members here don't keep gravel in their tanks.

I suspect your new fish has flukes, and he will have given them to your previous fish. One of the symptoms is flashing and another is rubbing on the gravel like he's really itchy. This might explain the slimecoat damage. Have you seen him rubbing on anything really quickly? Like flicking himself along? Prazi is the best thing for flukes but you can't get it in the UK, you can get something called Wormer Plus which does the same job, you can ask your fish store but I doubt they'll have it, you can get it online here I've used it before myself and they have very quick dispatch, if you order it now it should arrive by Friday. You'll only need a tiny amount at a time (expensive pastime huh?!) They do have something else on there called Fluke-M but it's twice the price with the same active ingredient so I've never seen the point in spending the extra money. Prazi is a very mild med and in my experience Wormer Plus is too though some people have reservations about it, I've never had any problems or known anyone who has, I've used it with goldies and our dwarf puffer.

His not eating worries me. That's never a good sign in a goldie. You can try crushing the juice from a clove of garlic and soaking the peas in it, garlic is very enticing to fish. Alternatively I've never had a goldie turn down frozen bloodworms, and they're high protein too so would be good for both your fish. (more money! krazy.gif )

Stick with them, you're doing well smile.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

oh boy... the white fish does look real skinny poor dude! was he like that before? He is your older fish right? Has he lost weight over this short period of time?

It could also be internal parasites... In that case you would need medicated food. Best wait for someone else' opinion on that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I'm leaning away from internal parasites for now because I think the flake food diet is the problem. If he doesn't put any weight on with a different diet then we can look at other things. If you need medicated food Choons I have some I can send you (you can't buy it in the UK, you have to be sneaky!). Sorting out the water and food is the most important thing for curing most things, med food is really a last resort and bacterial infections can't be assumed until everything else has been ruled out, which isn't the case yet :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I think the white fish has had a hard life in there as i dont think i was changing enough water in my weekly changes. Before i got the new fish i was changing one 25L bottle a week. The tank is 136L so if i up this to 3 bottles (75L) a week instead this should get better i hope.

what are your points of view on how to clean out your filter?

the manual says when the output starts to slow clean it out.

so i tend to just rinse it out every few months in tank water even though its still pumping fine.

how much of a shock is it to the good things in there? how often should i clean it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Supporter

well.. i read on these forums that the filter should be rinsed clean in old tank water from your fresh waterchange once every few months, so you're doing fine there.. there are the benificial bacteria balls that should not be touched. they store the good bacteria, so don't touch them, everything else can be cleaned in the old tank water, even the inside walls of the canister.

just outta cuirosity, when you do the water changes, do you syphon the gravel at all? or are you just draining water out from the tank?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Yes i use the gravel tube and suck the mess out, i was wondering if there is another way? what are under gravel filters? and would it suck the mess out just buy stiring the gravel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

You don't want an under gravel filter, they clog up, don't work and become a breeding ground for bad bacteria. They're a nightmare to clean. The only real alternative is to get rid of the gravel. If you want to do that you need to remove it a bit at a time over several days as some good bacteria grow on the gravel and you risk a cycle bump by removing it all at once, particularly as you just added a new fish. I keep my tanks barebottom apart from a few glass pebbles and it's soooo much easier. I just wipe the bottom of the tank down when I do a water change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Supporter

oh no.. undergravel filters are really messy.. they trap all sorts of things under there.. i used to have one myself when i had a smaller tank and my lfs said that i would hardly need to clean beyond the gravel.. one day, i had to do a 100% water change (thank goodness it was only a 30 litre tank) and despite the fact i used to do gravel syphoning once a week, you should have seen all the food and poo that came out of it.. it turned my water black and that was only after 3 months of putting it in!..

now, the best option as you read on these forums is to go bare bottom. i can't get used to seeing my tank bare bottom so i have a very thin layer of gravel with some stones down there. so thin that you can still see the bottom of the tank in many places. i find that a little gravel also keeps the fish busy.. but that's my opinion..

good old fashion syphoning is the best way as far as i know. here in australia, we don't have "pythons" and i don't know much about them to advise you how they work, but most swear by it and it seems i'm going to have to import one.. as soon as i find which one is best for my size tank. they aid in syphoning the gravel more efficiently and also filling the tank from you sink tap. i think some are motorised.. but there are many threads here that offer heaps of information.

i think if you keep up with 50% waterchanges per week, you should start to see some good results..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

If you're getting a python Helen take a good look at your taps first, I can't use one with mine. I don't think I'd want to anyway and I think I'd have to import one too. They do look much quicker. I'm looking at my tank now knowing I'm going to have to do a water change and it's going to take me ages...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Helen and Sarah - have you guys checked if you have the JBL brand in your area? It is a great german fish brand. Anyways, they have their equivalent of the python.

Called the Aqua In and Out

My link

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...