New Stand, Old Tank.

[Pontosfan]

Found a "cheap" (?25) stand today just the right size for the first fish tank I ever used. Now, it's too big, really, for just one male betta, but I was thinking about setting up a little betta family. What do you think would be a good amount of females to go with him? It's aprox. 51cm x 26cm x 25cm.

[Tinkokeshi]

I would recommend you do some research on betta keeping, and the plausibility of your little betta family idea.

It's one thing to have a solitary betta in a community tank, and another to have multiple betta in a single tank, especially of mixed gender.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Tinkokeshi

[Iheartfishies1172]

You can, under the right conditions, keep female bettas together, right?

I think I remember that I at one point I wanted to keep a couple betta females together in a 10 gallon. If it could work out, it would be really cool!

If I calculated correctly, your tank is about 8 US gallons. I seem to remember that bettas need 2-5 gallons a piece. Can someone confirm?

Edited July 6, 2010 by Iheartfishies1172

[Tinkokeshi]

Yes, but they too are territorial and will nip out a hierarchy. I wouldn't recommend any less than 3 gallons per female, it would be better at 5 gal/female.

[RanchuDressing]

You can, under the right conditions, keep female bettas together, right?

Sometimes. You have a much better chance of having a successful "sorority tank" if the females were all raised together and have ample room.

I would never keep a male and female together full-time, in any size tank. That's a disaster just waiting to happen, IMHO. Someone's going to end up seriously bitten or even dead.

[Iheartfishies1172]

Could Pontosfan put in a divider in the tank and have two boys?

[Tinkokeshi]

The thing with dividers is then the filter wouldn't work efficiently to filter both sides. If two small nano filters were used, that would be fine, but typically when I have male bettas, I don't keep them right next to each other. As "fun" as it is to see them flare, I'm sure in the long run, it's stressful seeing as they feel the constant threat of having to defend their territory.

I stick to individual betta in small filtered tanks. Seeing as my smallest tank is 2.5gal. I've only ever kept 1 male in there at a time. I have successfully kept a "sorority tank" (I like that term Ranchudressing) of 3 female bettas. It's recommend also, to go no lower than 3 females in a sorority tank... so that it's not a battle between an alpha female and just 1 other. It's important to introduce all three at once to the tank (meaning it should be cycled beforehand). If fish are being introduced later, it's important to rearrange the decor so that there is no previously staked out territory. It's a stressful and tedious process, but if done correctly and observed properly, results with a nice community of sometimes nippy fish.

I wouldn't recommend starting a new cycle though with a community betta tank, and like Ranchudressing said, I would also never put a male and female together long term.

[Iheartfishies1172]

You know your stuff Tinkokeshi!

[Tinkokeshi]

Mm... I'm no expert. I've just kept fish for a while. Still learning from the longtime members... I rely on them to help me learn. The nice thing about this forum is that everyone is willing to help others to the best of their extent, and helpers and mods are also constantly learning.

I've been on Koko's for a while... read through lots of threads, searched for information that I, myself wasn't sure of. There are some tried and true methods, and new ones all the time. I just keep my mind open, read before posting, and trust the knowledge of experienced keepers.

[Cynders]

I agree, I would not ever keep a female and male betta together except for breeding purposes, like it's been mentioned above, they will nip out an hierarchy and the male will probably kill her if there's no mating going on.

[Marlis]

Tinkokeshi is absolutely right, she has given you great advice; and I would never risk putting one male and several females in a tank. And with females, sorority tanks still might not work, it depends on the size of the tank, the number of females, and the personality of each female. You have to provide enough space and plenty of hiding places, a preferably introduce all females at the same time to avoid hierarchy fights each time a new female is introduced to a tank. 8 gallons is preferably not enough in my opinion, at least 10 gallons is need, 20 at best--so at best you should consider only one solitary male, or perhaps set up a divided tank (your decision, of course).

However, if you like the idea of a "family tank", guppies would be your best option there. They are more peaceful, but they are flashy and colorful and breed like rabbits.

[Hidr]

They are right.

You can't keep males with females permanently. You can keep the one male in a small tank. If you want a females only betta tank you need at least a 10 gallon with 5 to 6 females. Needs to be heavily planted with lots of nooks for the females to hide in. And you need to be ready for nipping and chasing. IMO your tank is to small for a group of females. However there are some fish you can keep with your betta. A couple cory cats, some of the less colorful tetras...

I use to have 6 in my 29 gallon. Lots of nice color. But some of the females had ragged fins all the time from the nipping.

[Pontosfan]

I would recommend you do some research on betta keeping, and the plausibility of your little betta family idea.

That's the thing. I have done some research but I'm getting a lot of conflicting information. From various sources I've found that i could have anywhere from 3 to 6 females with one male in my tank. And I've never heard of this not keeping males with females permanently. There is a fish shop a little way from me (i've never been but I've been told about it) and apparently, they specialise in bettas so I think i'll try and get some confirmation there. There's no rush, the tanks not even set up yet so I have some time to think about it.

[Chrissy_Bee]

I would recommend you do some research on betta keeping, and the plausibility of your little betta family idea.

That's the thing. I have done some research but I'm getting a lot of conflicting information. From various sources I've found that i could have anywhere from 3 to 6 females with one male in my tank. And I've never heard of this not keeping males with females permanently. There is a fish shop a little way from me (i've never been but I've been told about it) and apparently, they specialise in bettas so I think i'll try and get some confirmation there. There's no rush, the tanks not even set up yet so I have some time to think about it.

Good idea, consider the options and find as much info as you can. Maybe you could set it up without fish to start with. Bettas like a lot of plants, so you could start with buying those and getting the tank 'aquascaped' then decide what to put in there.

[Tinkokeshi]

That's the thing. I have done some research but I'm getting a lot of conflicting information. From various sources I've found that i could have anywhere from 3 to 6 females with one male in my tank. And I've never heard of this not keeping males with females permanently. There is a fish shop a little way from me (i've never been but I've been told about it) and apparently, they specialise in bettas so I think i'll try and get some confirmation there. There's no rush, the tanks not even set up yet so I have some time to think about it.

I am wondering which sources you have looked up, could you perhaps post a link for me?

I just did a quick search on google for "can male and female bettas live together" and just about every link that comes up does not recommend it. So if there is contradictory information, I would love to read up about it.

[koko]

I would love to see that information too. i have had female betta's together, and I have had Males (seperate tanks). You could have 2-3 females in that tank with plenty of hiding spots for them, but if you add the male in there, he will attack and keep doing it till the females die or breed with him....

Male betta's were bread to fight along ago and some places are still like that, but if you could show us the information that is okay to do this, i would love to see it

[Pontosfan]

Done some more research online and am now finding a lot of sites that are also saying that you shouldn't keep males with females. I now have to look at the sources of the information I have collected and if their may be other motives. It was mainly people at the fish shops who told me i could keep them together which makes me think they were telling me this to just sell me more stuff. I can't see the people on aprox. 30 different websites having some hidden agenda for not wanting me to have female bettas. So now my only doubt now comes from the fact that my mum used to have a male in a community tank which included two females and there was never any problem between them. In fact, they all left each other alone. Is this some strange anomaly? The tank wasn't much bigger than the one I'm taling about here and he had a lot more fish than I'm planning to put in.

[Chrissy_Bee]

I have heard staff at pet stores give the same advice about it being 'fine' to keep males and females together. Most times I think it's because they will indeed say almost anything to sell more fish, or they are just not well informed.

As for your mom's fish, yes sometimes you can get a very peaceful betta. I have seen some live in community tanks without ever causing a problem. But that is always a gamble. I once tried putting my betta in my community tank. Everything seemed fine but the next morning I found that he had completely bitten the tail off one of my guppies Needless to say, he moved back into his own private tank that day!

[Pontosfan]

Yes, i don't think I'll risk it. I think I'll just go with one male betta.

[Chrissy_Bee]

Do you know how many liters or gallons the tank is? If there was enough room you could put in a snail or shrimp with the betta with no issues.

[Pontosfan]

A bit over 33L.