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amoonklein

Dropsy And Distress

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Hi. I have a few updates:

Mr. Wendell:

Still kinda prickly, but his spirit is high and his appetite is great

Day 9 Metro Meds

Day 17 epsom

Temp 80

65 gallon main tank:

Substrate is officially all the way out

Hollow ornament has been removed

One of the two canister filters has been cleaned

Salt is up to .2%

They are on week 2 of prazi (treatment: one dose added and in the tank for three days, then water change and no prazi for four days)

Here's a pic of the tank bare bottom:

IMG_0757.jpg

I'm still getting used to it.

Martini:

We had kind of a rough day yesterday.

I pulled her out to do a 100% water change and stared at her for a long time. I can't tell if her scales are totally flat or if they are ever so slightly prickly. It is so hard to tell! Some angles she looks totally fine and other angles it looks like there could be a possibility that some of her scales could be sticking out ever so slightly. Then, after the water change, I put her back in her QT tank and realized 10 minutes later that I forgot to add water conditioner! OMG. I totally freaked out. She was breathing really heavily, fins clamed, and listless. I rushed and got a 1 gallon ready for her immediately and put her in there. I was really worried, but she pulled through. I can't believe I did that... I feel horrible. I am so happy she's OK.

I tried to get some pics:

IMG_0717.jpg

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See what I mean? It's really hard to tell. I don't want to add epsom back in because she isn't definitely prickly and since there's a possibility that I'm just worrying over nothing, but do you think it would be good to maybe start her on the Jungle AP? or shoudl I just wait and see?

Edited by amoonklein

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good call on not adding back the epsom as I do not see any signs of pine-coning from the pictures. I'm sorry I am not familiar with how Martini became ill so perhaps you can do a short recap? not so much for me, but if a Mod stops in and they are wondering as well. then they can say if she needs med food or not.

oh and don't beat yourself up about forgetting the dechlorinator, it's happened to members more times than you would think. It's very stressful for us when our fish our sick and sometimes accidents happen. She should be ok though. She wasn't in it for long you know? And you moved her right away.

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Hi Martha.

Thanks for the fast response :)

I'm pretty sure I'm just being paranoid about Martini's scales. She had dropsied on the 27th, exactly one week ago. I put her in QT, added epsom, and turned up the heat to 80. Her scales were pretty much flat after 24 hours and they looked totally flat by day 2. I guess I was just nervous that there was a chance they hadn't totally flattened yet and she's so tiny it's really hard for me to tell (she's 2 inches including tail).

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Hi Allie. :) I agree with Martha I don't see anymore pineconing on Martini. (She's a real cutie though :wub: )

It's good that Mr. Wendell is still in good spirits.

I know you're in good hands with Sue helping you with these little guys but I wanted to let you know I'm still rooting for Mr Wendall and Martini. I know you take great care of them. Hope they'll all be back together soon. :heart

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Hi Edith.

Thanks for your reply and your support :) I'm glad you both think she's OK. I can get a little paranoid sometimes and it's helpful to get confirmation that her scales are flat. I'm thinking good water quality and watching her and she'll be just fine.

I hope Mr. Wendell starts to feel better soon too. My fingers are crossed for a happy reunion.

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for martini it might help you to observe her scales on a black bottom. that way you can see better - i do that with light fish - as it is way harder to see that darker fish.

I love the look of your tank btw!

as for Mr.Wendell his dropsy isn't going down? maybe you should ask Trinket about using normal salt - I might remember that it can be used when epson doesn't work - don't ask me why! :blink:

if the Metro doesn't work are you going to switch to Jungle AP? when is the Metro over?

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Hi Federica.

The next time I have Martini out of the tank, I'll definitely have to try your trick of looking at her with something black behind the holding tank.

As for the salt and meds, I'm not sure yet. Mr. Wendell is on day 10 of the Metro Meds and day 18 of epsom. I'm not sure how much longer I can keep the epsom in the tank. He's still really prickly this morning, so I'm not sure how much good the epsom is doing anymore. I think I'll wait for more direction and see what Sue says.

Thanks heartpump.gif

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I think you should PM Trinket. I am not sure how long you can keep epson if it is no longer doing anything... darn it really sucks for Mr.Wendell! he is way too cute for this!

how about the Parasite idea? I wonder if you could change from the MetroMeds to the Jungle AP - as also the Jungle has Metro inside... :idont Edith should know more about this with all that she has gone through with Bandit!

it is so crazy how long this has been going on! it seems that whatever is causing the dropsy is still there... :scared

good luck!

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Yeah, I'm wondering about the epsom too. Sue had sent Trinket a PM about it and it was determined it was OK to keep the epsom in the tank in Mr. Wendell's case because it was helping, but now since it really isn't doing anything, maybe it would be a good idea for me to ask again. Maybe there is another alternative that could help him out, or I may have to just remove it.

I don't know if he has a bacterial or parasite infection. He was originally on MMs when he first dropsied. After 14 days he was doing great and was reintroduced to the main tank. Then he dropsied again. He was put on the Jungle AP food and although he was super floaty on it (upside down), we kept him on that cause it seemed to be working. Unfortunately, once I tried removing some of the epsom after day 8, he dropsied again even though he was still eating the Jungle AP food (he was on that for 10 days). So I put the epsom back in the tank and switched him to Metro Meds. Now he's on day 10 of the MMs and day 18 of epsom.

I wish he could just tell me what's wrong so I could help him out.

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i'll just PM Trinket and ask her to try and stop by if she cans. It is real weird how it comes and goes. I am not sure what to suggest since the dropsy fish I had were usually resolved in a few days on epson and jungle... so something isn't working in this case...

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since dropsy is only a symptom of the illness he is experiencing it would be so great if Mr. Wendell could say what was wrong. I find that the most difficult thing to deal with. Not really knowing what caused the dropsy and why previous methods are not working to clear it up.

I've been told many times here that once a fish has dropsied they will be more prone to do so in the future. Only thing I can think of suggesting right now is just a reminder to make sure the temp is stable and consistent and that the water is pristine.

By any chance are there fish doc's in your area?

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Wow...you have had such a busy time with your pets. I am so glad your dog is fine...those bowel obstruction surgeries can be nasty.

I don't see any signs of pineconing in the pics, but I am concerned about Mr. Wendell. Fingers crossed for him!

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This is SO frustrating!!!

I think if the epsom doesn't seem to be helping any more you could remove it, but try doing it more slowly this time. Maybe just do a 25% water change at first.

I'm thinking that after you finish 14 days of Metromeds again, maybe you should try going back to the Jungle AP just to rule out any internal parasites that could be causing this.. Then again, Martha said it exactly because you just never KNOW with dropsy what the cause is, so in most cases it's a guessing game..

Yes, that's his history. We were originally going to try 30 days on the MMs. Right now he's on day 7. Should I do 14 instead and if he's still sick after that, switch to the Jungle AP?

haha I just saw this!!! So yes, obviously I agree!!! LOL

If we have to go back to the Jungle AP after the MMs, maybe I could try making a gel food using the AP and some baby food peas to see if that would help with his floatyneses.

Try soaking the pellets first if u can and see if that makes a difference (I know its hard because they bob around at the top) but if he still gets floaty then yeah, I think I would try a gel food. Just feed him a little more so you are sure he's getting enough of the meds.

We may need to consider another medication that is aimed more against bacterial dropsy if this doesn't get better. I ran into this problem with Chase. I went through a bunch of medications trying. Trinket helped me out and guided me in the right medications to try... It's just hard though because you don't want to put them through TOO much, but you can't just give up either. I completely understand your frustration and can relate.

I don't see any pineconing in the photo of Martini but I know what you are talking about because I have done that many times too. After they dropsy you just take note of any slight lift in the scales. It can be maddening. But as far as I can see from the photos there is nothing there dramatic enough to warrant starting the meds, esp if Martini is still acting well. (aside from his water conditioner incident. And don't worry yourself about that. I think we've all made that mistake one or two times. It happens!)

I LOVE YOUR TANK! It looks GORGEOUS!!! So pretty!!! It's going to be so much easier to maintain now and hopefully much better in the long run for keeping the fish healthy! Really I LOVE IT!!!!

Glad the rest of the fish seem to be doing well..

Anyway, if it were me, finish out the 14 days MM then go to the Jungle AP and remove the epsom slowly. Unless Trinket stops by and has other ideas. Then I would follow her because we all know she's the best! :)

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Hello Hello.

Posted Yesterday, 01:30 PM

since dropsy is only a symptom of the illness he is experiencing it would be so great if Mr. Wendell could say what was wrong. I find that the most difficult thing to deal with. Not really knowing what caused the dropsy and why previous methods are not working to clear it up.

I've been told many times here that once a fish has dropsied they will be more prone to do so in the future. Only thing I can think of suggesting right now is just a reminder to make sure the temp is stable and consistent and that the water is pristine.

By any chance are there fish doc's in your area?

Definitely :) temp is a stable 80 and thankfully his water params have been great. I was so happy the QT tank cycled so quickly.

I'm not sure if there are any in my area. It would be a good idea for me to find out anyway for future reference so I'll start doing some research tonight.

Posted Yesterday, 08:01 PM

Wow...you have had such a busy time with your pets. I am so glad your dog is fine...those bowel obstruction surgeries can be nasty.

I don't see any signs of pineconing in the pics, but I am concerned about Mr. Wendell. Fingers crossed for him!

Thank you. Me too. Both Taylor and Mr. Wendell are being such troopers.

I think if the epsom doesn't seem to be helping any more you could remove it, but try doing it more slowly this time. Maybe just do a 25% water change at first.

I'll make sure to double check and see how he's doing at lunch. If there isn't any improvement in his scales, then I'll plan on a 25% water change tonight and see how he does.

I'm thinking that after you finish 14 days of Metromeds again, maybe you should try going back to the Jungle AP just to rule out any internal parasites that could be causing this.. Then again, Martha said it exactly because you just never KNOW with dropsy what the cause is, so in most cases it's a guessing game..

Okie dokie. I do want to mention that the past three days or so Mr. Wendell has been resting with his head pointed downward and his butt pointed up. He isn't standing on his head, but there is some serious leaning.

Does this mean it could potentially be bacterial?

Try soaking the pellets first if u can and see if that makes a difference (I know its hard because they bob around at the top) but if he still gets floaty then yeah, I think I would try a gel food. Just feed him a little more so you are sure he's getting enough of the meds.

We may need to consider another medication that is aimed more against bacterial dropsy if this doesn't get better. I ran into this problem with Chase. I went through a bunch of medications trying. Trinket helped me out and guided me in the right medications to try... It's just hard though because you don't want to put them through TOO much, but you can't just give up either. I completely understand your frustration and can relate.

I don't see any pineconing in the photo of Martini but I know what you are talking about because I have done that many times too. After they dropsy you just take note of any slight lift in the scales. It can be maddening. But as far as I can see from the photos there is nothing there dramatic enough to warrant starting the meds, esp if Martini is still acting well. (aside from his water conditioner incident. And don't worry yourself about that. I think we've all made that mistake one or two times. It happens!)

I LOVE YOUR TANK! It looks GORGEOUS!!! So pretty!!! It's going to be so much easier to maintain now and hopefully much better in the long run for keeping the fish healthy! Really I LOVE IT!!!!

Glad the rest of the fish seem to be doing well..

Anyway, if it were me, finish out the 14 days MM then go to the Jungle AP and remove the epsom slowly. Unless Trinket stops by and has other ideas. Then I would follow her because we all know she's the best! smile.gif

OK... I'll do the 14 days and then switch back to the AP food. I'll soak them and see how it goes.

Martini seems to still be doing just fine... thank goodness. I still can't believe I forgot to add the water conditioner. Duh! I'm so glad pulled through that.

Thanks on the tank comment. It's starting to grow on me. I'll probably keep fiddling with it, changing decorations around, but I'm sure I'm going to love how much easier it will be to keep clean.

Thanks again you guys... you are an incredible support system. heartpump.gif You knowledge and advice have been life saving for my fishies, but your kindness and support have helped me so much.

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thank goodness for Martini :)

Oh butt up... :undecided:

It happens to my ryukin when he is constipated. Is he pooping normal? I also think it this case it could be that something is pushing the swimbladder? I think intestinal parasites can do that too. Maybe you def need the Jungle Food :unsure:

but he is still eating fine right?

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Yes, he's still a hungry little piggy and does the "feed me" shuffle anytime I walk near the tank... that's always a good sign :)

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for the jungle food I always had half of the pellets sink and the other still floating after soaking them in tank water. If you use the back of a spoon to mush the still floating ones they will sink. I tried to mush mine while they were still in the bowl full of water and it didn't go so well (they kept escaping), perhaps taking them out and mushing on a plate would be easier?

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Thanks Martha :)

I have a small dish I can use to presoak them and then try to mush them a little.

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I soak them in boiled and dechlorinated water - otherwise I find they take AGES to sink :undecided:

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That's clever Federica :) I may have to try that.

OK, so 5 gallons have been removed from Mr. Wendell's tank (25% water change). Fingers crossed that he'll be OK with me starting to remove the epsom.

Mooshu and Moose in the 65 are still surface gasping, but Mooshu's tail is looking a little better. That's good. Moose's fins however, are looking not so good. They are looking raggedy and parts are starting to look red. Eek. Will the salt help out his fins? They are still at .2% right now and I'll be adding the last .1% tomorrow for a total of .3% salinity. Water params are: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5+

:heart

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That's clever Federica :) I may have to try that.

OK, so 5 gallons have been removed from Mr. Wendell's tank (25% water change). Fingers crossed that he'll be OK with me starting to remove the epsom.

Mooshu and Moose in the 65 are still surface gasping, but Mooshu's tail is looking a little better. That's good. Moose's fins however, are looking not so good. They are looking raggedy and parts are starting to look red. Eek. Will the salt help out his fins? They are still at .2% right now and I'll be adding the last .1% tomorrow for a total of .3% salinity. Water params are: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5+

:heart

Hi Allie. :)

Is Mr Wendell still head standing? And do you know if he is pooping normally?

I was wondering about Moose's fins, did you check your water params in that tank recently. Sometimes salt will affect your cycle and that could def lead to the red fins.

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I might be missing something because I am leaving for the beach so I only had a chance to skim the new posts but I wanted to pop in your thread before I did.

The words that caught my eye are that he is laying butt up, nose down.

And all of the things mentioned could very well be the culprits here. Swimbladder issues, a bacterial infection but the one that strikes me is:

I think intestinal parasites can do that too. Maybe you def need the Jungle Food unsure.gif

Mr. Wendell's case seems to be so similiar to my case of recurring dropsy in my tanks.. Pineconing not going down, but otherwise unaffected. Still happy, still eating. And in my case I do believe it ended up being internal parasites. 2-3 of my fish began doing the nose down, butt up motion. (in differerent tanks). Then dropsy began to occur in different tanks.

Now of course, just cause it happened to me, doesn't mean its the same for you, but there are certain similarities I am seeing and that makes me very much agree that I would wanna try the Jungle AP again after this.. I think it's wise to rule it out..

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Hi ladies smile.gif

Hi Allie. smile.gif

Is Mr Wendell still head standing? And do you know if he is pooping normally?

I was wondering about Moose's fins, did you check your water params in that tank recently. Sometimes salt will affect your cycle and that could def lead to the red fins.

Mr. Wendell isn't head standing as much, but it's still noticeable. His poops look normal in some spots and stringy in other spots. Overall, he appears to be about the same as yesterday. I think is a good sign since I started removing the epsom last night and I was worried he might start looking a little worse. I'm happy that's not the case.

I thought that maybe there may be a cycle bump too so I tested the water params last night and the readings were: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5+. This was as of last night though, so maybe I there was a small bump in the cycle and I missed it? Would good water params and salt mean that his fins should be on the road to recovery?

Mr. Wendell's case seems to be so similiar to my case of recurring dropsy in my tanks.. Pineconing not going down, but otherwise unaffected. Still happy, still eating. And in my case I do believe it ended up being internal parasites. 2-3 of my fish began doing the nose down, butt up motion. (in differerent tanks). Then dropsy began to occur in different tanks.

Now of course, just cause it happened to me, doesn't mean its the same for you, but there are certain similarities I am seeing and that makes me very much agree that I would wanna try the Jungle AP again after this.. I think it's wise to rule it out..

Sounds like a plan. As soon as he's finished with his 14 days of MMs, I'll switch him back to the Jungle AP food. I sure hope it does the trick. I'm glad he's still happy as ever, but he's making me a nervous wreck!

Thanks again you guys. heartpump.gif

Edited by amoonklein

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OK... so I just got home and checked on everyone and Moose has popeye!!!!! Ahhhh! No more, please!

It's definitely popeye... tell tale white ring starting around one eye. Grr.

Mooshu may have it also, but her eyes don't have a white ring, they just look more buggy than normal... does that make sense?

Also, I've noticed that Mooshu is starting to bottom sit off and on. At first, I thought she was sleeping cause she'd pick a corner in the evenings and when I would walk up to the tank, she'd come out to greet me. But now with

What should I do? I'm out of hospital tanks.

I could start treating the main tank for popeye, but I want to make sure Mooshu has it too before just adding epsom in there AND I would have to do a 100% water change to make sure I remove all of the aquarium salt.

This is SO frustrating.

Edited by amoonklein

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OK... so I just got home and checked on everyone and Moose has popeye!!!!! Ahhhh! No more, please!

It's definitely popeye... tell tale white ring starting around one eye. Grr.

Mooshu may have it also, but her eyes don't have a white ring, they just look more buggy than normal... does that make sense?

Also, I've noticed that Mooshu is starting to bottom sit off and on. At first, I thought she was sleeping cause she'd pick a corner in the evenings and when I would walk up to the tank, she'd come out to greet me. But now with

What should I do? I'm out of hospital tanks.

I could start treating the main tank for popeye, but I want to make sure Mooshu has it too before just adding epsom in there AND I would have to do a 100% water change to make sure I remove all of the aquarium salt.

This is SO frustrating.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. :( It's got to be frustrating. Would you be able to get some rubbermaid tubs?

Edited by Tay

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