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amoonklein

Dropsy And Distress

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i.m.o. I would not call that fluid(?) filled sack pop-eye. the pop-eye I've seen is when the eye is literally being pushed out of the eye socket. Fish with pop-eye generally look like one (or both) of their eyes has turned into a telescope eye(s).

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I really don't know what is going on with your goldie Mooshu so I would definitely pm Trinket or Koko about it. I also think the jungle anti bacterial is a better choice then anti parasite in that case. or go with the mm's from GFC. but again, pm Trinket or Koko.

I am also a fan of a bare bottom tank for the health reasons. If I could I would love to have a decorated tank with ornaments and real plants but from my short time as a fish keeper I've had nothing but devastating problems with them. I wouldn't keep that substrate around either. Use it outside in a planter maybe, but not for later use in the tank. If you come to a point where you'd like it back just buy a new bag that way you know there are no flukes or whatever it may be in your tank in the new sub. I'm also not familiar with your eco substrate so maybe it can be sterilized?

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I always use the Jungle Anti Parasitic because it has the Metro inside and the Prazi.

I believe the Anti Bacterial has sulfa meds. it is mostly effective for things such as Columnaris i THINK!

anyways, yea for dropsy and popeye I have always used the Anti Parasitic because I cannot get MetroMeds here.

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I always use the Jungle Anti Parasitic because it has the Metro inside and the Prazi.

I believe the Anti Bacterial has sulfa meds. it is mostly effective for things such as Columnaris i THINK!

anyways, yea for dropsy and popeye I have always used the Anti Parasitic because I cannot get MetroMeds here.

oic good to know. It says it works on columnaris, fin rot, microsporidian infections like pleistophora, bacterial enteritis, septicimia, kidney disease, wasting, open sores, ulcers, and neon tetra disease. The anti bac contains sodium sulfathiazole and nitrofurazone. I'm glad I had asked b/c I thought it contained metro! :doh11:

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I am leaning towards what Sue suggested. AP food for everyone and really stepping up your maintance process. I think you will find that this combined with the UV will go a long way towards healthy fish.

:exactly I agree with Amy. :) Sue gave you some excellent advice and hopefully with that and the adjustments you are doing to your maintenance and by removing the substrate and hollow ornaments you will soon get your fish 100% healthy again. :)

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Wow... lots of responses and advice. Thanks you guys :)

You need to add a pic of Martini to your sig! I keep glancing down looking for him! rofl3.gif

Yeah! Poor Martini is feeling left out. I'll have to get to work on that.

I think for now, I'm going to remove the substrate, the hollow ornament, and keep the decorations minimal. I'm starting tonight. I'll do a water change and take out some of the substrate, and do a good cleaning on one of the canister filters (it's been about a month & 1/2 since the last cleaning... *embarrassed look on face*). Then I'll start salting the tank (.1% every 24 hours until i get to .3%). I'm going to try and hold off on the meds and just continue with the treatment of prazi and salt and see if things improve. If not, I'll medicate them with the Jungle AP food.

Sheesh... I have a lot of work ahead of me but I like the feeling of satisfaction after everything is nice and clean. It's a good feeling knowing your goldies are happy and healthy. I'm gearing up!

Thanks again you guys :) You are such a wonderful support system and I'm thankful to have such great kokos friends :)

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Sorry I wasn't able to check in yesterday. When I did sign in last night, I got the bandwith exceeded message again.

I'm starting tonight. I'll do a water change and take out some of the substrate, and do a good cleaning on one of the canister filters (it's been about a month & 1/2 since the last cleaning... *embarrassed look on face*). Then I'll start salting the tank (.1% every 24 hours until i get to .3%). I'm going to try and hold off on the meds and just continue with the treatment of prazi and salt and see if things improve. If not, I'll medicate them with the Jungle AP food.

I think that sounds like a really good plan! :) Remember to remove the substrate a little at a time, not all at once.

I am so glad Martini is already feeling better. That's awesome!!!! If she pinecones again I would def start either the AP or the MM ASAP.

As for Mr. Wendell I hope that his floaties resolve once he is finished with the meds and back to eating normally. I've had a few fish that got very floaty during the meds, or right after dropsy, and they went back to normal with time. Unfortunately I have another fish that never did get back to normal, and floats 100% of the time. I think it really depends on what is causing the floaties. For example, if the fish is just constipated from the change in food, then they may return to normal later. Or if it's gas or airbubbles in the food. But an example of a case where things may not return to normal is if parasites had contributed to the dropsy and there was a (taking this straight out of Fancy Goldfish) loss of lower body mass. I think that is what happened in my fishes case.

But worst case, floaty fish can still be happy fish! And once the meds are done we will have a better feel for WHY he is floaty..

As for long posts: You ain't seen nothing yet. My posts when I have sick fish are 100 times longer! Yours was short compared to what I used to (and still) do! So you've got nothing to worry about!

And as for somewhat "slacking" on maintence. Hey it happens to everyone! Life gets in the way and while we all love our goldies, they are not the #1 priority! You've got family and yourself and sometimes unfortunately something comes up and they may not get that water change exactly on time.. That's not your fault! Some people would have just completely forgotten about them. You still did what you could and that's really all you can do ya know? Don't beat yourself up over it, because I think you did the best you could do in your situation and THANK GOD you guys are alive after that crash!

I always use the Jungle Anti Parasitic because it has the Metro inside and the Prazi.

I believe the Anti Bacterial has sulfa meds. it is mostly effective for things such as Columnaris i THINK!

anyways, yea for dropsy and popeye I have always used the Anti Parasitic because I cannot get MetroMeds here.

So far I think that the Jungle AP seems to be a really great alternative in treating dropsy for those who cannot buy Metromeds, or can't get them in time, or can't afford them. I am a fan of both medicated foods for different reasons. I like that the Jungle AP has the prazi in it. I think that's so helpful so you are able to do prazi inside and out. (I think I'm more paranoid about it because my fish did have the tapeworms). But with the MM I like that is has the other antibiotics included so that you are not only killing the parasite, but have some extra medication in there to help any secondary infections.) So I like em both and always have BOTH in stock. Actually I always have Metromeds, Medi-Gold, Jungle AP and Jungle AB on hand if I can. Then if a problem arises I can think about the particular case and decide which medication will be best for that particular problem.

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So far I think that the Jungle AP seems to be a really great alternative in treating dropsy for those who cannot buy Metromeds, or can't get them in time, or can't afford them. I am a fan of both medicated foods for different reasons. I like that the Jungle AP has the prazi in it. I think that's so helpful so you are able to do prazi inside and out. (I think I'm more paranoid about it because my fish did have the tapeworms). But with the MM I like that is has the other antibiotics included so that you are not only killing the parasite, but have some extra medication in there to help any secondary infections.) So I like em both and always have BOTH in stock. Actually I always have Metromeds, Medi-Gold, Jungle AP and Jungle AB on hand if I can. Then if a problem arises I can think about the particular case and decide which medication will be best for that particular problem.

All these medicated foods have got me going crazy! :wacko: lol, but it's good that I'm getting myself more familiar with them and less confused about what each is for. I feel like even though this is not my thread, I still have the opportunity to learn.

I'm going to pm you a question about some of the med foods though CountryLovah, hope you don't mind. :)

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Hi ladies.

Things have been going well.

As for Mr. Wendell I hope that his floaties resolve once he is finished with the meds and back to eating normally. I've had a few fish that got very floaty during the meds, or right after dropsy, and they went back to normal with time. Unfortunately I have another fish that never did get back to normal, and floats 100% of the time. I think it really depends on what is causing the floaties. For example, if the fish is just constipated from the change in food, then they may return to normal later. Or if it's gas or airbubbles in the food. But an example of a case where things may not return to normal is if parasites had contributed to the dropsy and there was a (taking this straight out of Fancy Goldfish) loss of lower body mass. I think that is what happened in my fishes case.

He is doing better :) Yesterday his scales were totally flat so I'm going to start removing the epsom today. Does a 50% water change sound good? I can keep an eye on him and make sure he doesn't start acting worse. Also, he hasn't been floaty or upside down at all since the last post. *knock on wood* He's still a little off when it comes to buoyancy and his head when he rests his head starts to tilt down.

The main tank cleaning is going well too :) I think although I will be sad that I'm losing the substrate (for aesthetic reasons only), I can already tell I'm gonna like it better. Once the tank isn't looking all half put together, I'll share a pic of how it ends up.

And as for somewhat "slacking" on maintence. Hey it happens to everyone! Life gets in the way and while we all love our goldies, they are not the #1 priority! You've got family and yourself and sometimes unfortunately something comes up and they may not get that water change exactly on time.. That's not your fault! Some people would have just completely forgotten about them. You still did what you could and that's really all you can do ya know? Don't beat yourself up over it, because I think you did the best you could do in your situation and THANK GOD you guys are alive after that crash!

Thanks, Sue. My hubby keeps telling me I'm a good fishy mom, but he's supposed to say stuff like that wink.gif I'm one of those people that gets a guilty conscience... even if I were doing absolutely perfect tank maintenance, etc. I'm sure I'd still feel like I could be doing better. I need to get over that asap.

I'll be so happy once everyone is healthy again and they are all swimming around together in the main tank. I'm already thinking and wishing for a fun future photoshoot.

I hope to have another good report for you guys next time I post :)

Thanks again... lots of hugs!

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thats great Allie!

yea 50% is good - so you dont take out ALL the Epson right away - I know that sometimes stresses the fishies.

I am real glad about handsome Mr.Wendell!

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Normally I write a ton but I only have 2 seconds online so just chiming in to say I think 50% water change is good for now and I am glad the scales are flat! :-)

I'm going to pm you a question about some of the med foods though CountryLovah, hope you don't mind. :)

Not at all! I will respond later when I have more time as best I can. :)

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I think I got excited too soon :(

He was doing OK after the water change but today he is prickly again. I haven't added the epsom back in yet... as of Wednesday, he was on day 12 of epsom. Should I add it back in or is it going to more harm than good?

Arg.

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have you given him Jungle food yet? I think if it comes back more than once you have to give medicated food - as it means something internal is likely going on. wait for a Mod to confirm this tho - make sure you have Jungle Anti PARASITIC at hand.

he is still in hospital tank? all the params are good? anything in there that could cause extra irritation? gravel, deco etc. heat is still up?

as for the Epson I would wait what someone more qualified says - I know the epson purges them - so too much is also bad... did he get prickly when you stopped the epson or while it was still in there?

fingers crossed

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This is SO weird.

It seems like EVERY time you take the epsom out, he pinecones again. I honestly don't know what the right call would be here... I mean, it's already been in longer than it really should be, but at the same time it seems like when its NOT in there, things go bad...

I am gonna write back again to Trinket and get her opinion. For now, I'll answer you not as a "mod" but as a friend since I don't really KNOW the right way to handle this. (Just being honest). If it were me, I would put it back in. Whether thats the right answer, I am not sure. But personally if it's the only thing helping I would put it back.

This must be so so frustrating for you! How are the others doing?

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aaaww... hugs to you and martini.. :hug i'm sorry to read he's still not well.. :(

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Okay just to be sure, how much epsom is in there at the moment, and what level of epsom are you using when you do have it in at the full amount? Also, when you do water changes are you adding it back in based on what's left in there or adding a whole new dose each time?

I am pretty sure you were adding it correctly and using the proper dose but we just wanna be 100% sure so there is no confusion. :)

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Hi ladies... sorry I haven't responded yet. It seems like everything could be going better. My dog Taylor had to have emergency surgery yesterday. He ate a sock! Thankfully he's going to be fine and he gets to come home this morning.

Total epsom used is 1/2 tsp for 20 gallons (technically the tank holds 23 gallons but I've been doing all the measurements off of 20).

When I do the water changes, I am adding it back in based on how much I removed. When I did the 50% water change, it removed 1/4 tsp epsom. Last night I put 1/4 tsp back in. I figured if it wasn't the right move, I could always do a water change to remove it. What's another few hours, right? Especially if it makes him a little more comfortable.

I haven't checked on him this morning, but I will when I pick up Taylor and get him home and settled.

Geez, I am definitely feeling overwhelmed, but I'm hoping things are on the up and up from now on.

Thank for all of your support heartpump.gif

Edited by amoonklein

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ATE A SOCK?!?!?!?! omg glad he is going to be fine!!! (it is also a bit funny tho!)

sometime i wonder WHAT goes through their minds! the other week my 8month old tortoise decided it would be fun to swallow some gravel I have in her pen for her nails! thankfully she popped it all out (but seriously, some of the pieces were the size of her head!!!) :krazy: so there I was, knee deep in turtle wilderness to picj out EVERY SINGLE gravel piece in there! thankfully they were white and easy to spot... :doh11:

I forgot if he is on the Jungle AP or not? I have always used that on the fish that got dropsy more than once - or when it wouldn't go away. I really think it saved a couple... check with a MoD if that could be a good idea to start...

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When I do the water changes, I am adding it back in based on how much I removed. When I did the 50% water change, it removed 1/4 tsp epsom. Last night I put 1/4 tsp back in. I figured if it wasn't the right move, I could always do a water change to remove it. What's another few hours, right? Especially if it makes him a little more comfortable.

Okay awesome! That's good! I talked to Trinket and she agrees to leave it in for now if it's helping. She said that the dose is low enough that there should not be a problem. Continue to leave it in at 1/2 tsp per 20 gallons for now!

I forgot if he is on the Jungle AP or not? I have always used that on the fish that got dropsy more than once - or when it wouldn't go away. I really think it saved a couple... check with a MoD if that could be a good idea to start..

I am fairly certain she was using the Metromeds and completed the 14 days course, then the fish dropsied again and started Jungle AP and it made the fish extremely floaty so she switched back to MetroMeds again. But I agree.. If you are still having issues after you have completely a second 14 day treatment with MetroMeds I would go back to the Jungle AP food if it were me.

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oh sorry I didn't know he was already on the Metro :doh11: - I use the Jungle as I dont get Metro here... so I guess thats useless as the Metro would have already treated an interior infection.... unless it is really a parasite? does metro work for worms etc? I know the Jungle has the Prazi and something else in it which I THINK works also for worms... truthfully I just use it for the Metro. :ignore

I wonder what is triggering him? poor guy...

fingers crossed

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oh sorry I didn't know he was already on the Metro :doh11: - I use the Jungle as I dont get Metro here... so I guess thats useless as the Metro would have already treated an interior infection.... unless it is really a parasite? does metro work for worms etc?

No no your absolutely on the right track here!!! Because you're right - Jungle Anti Parasite food will kill some parasites and worms that the MetroMeds may not! It contains the prazi AND levamisole. And I personally have had experiences where MY fish dropsied (I think)due to tapeworms. The MetroMeds helped the dropsy go down, but it kept coming back until I used the Jungle AP food. Of course, each case is different you know, but just seeing how well it worked for my fish makes me think its very very useful in some cases (Like yours for sure, and maybe in this one too).

So delete that little hand on your forehead icon cause you are EXACTLY on track here! Thats why I wanted to her try the Jungle AP in the first place. We're on the exact same page! :)

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thanx Sue!

hmmm...

poor guy. it sucks it makes him floaty! maybe mixing it with peas? I know they are suppose to eat as much medicated food as they can - but if he still has good appetite I am sure ONE pea won't kill his appetite :rofl

and his poop is 'normal' (as it can be for a dropsy fish!)

hope we can figure it out soon!!!

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ATE A SOCK?!?!?!?! omg glad he is going to be fine!!! (it is also a bit funny tho!)

sometime i wonder WHAT goes through their minds! the other week my 8month old tortoise decided it would be fun to swallow some gravel I have in her pen for her nails! thankfully she popped it all out (but seriously, some of the pieces were the size of her head!!!) krazy.gif so there I was, knee deep in turtle wilderness to picj out EVERY SINGLE gravel piece in there! thankfully they were white and easy to spot... doh11.gif

Yes, a sock! Unfortunately, this is the third time he's had to have surgery for his eating habits. Gross. I'll have to join the pet brigade :) then I can share pics of him and stuff.

Okay awesome! That's good! I talked to Trinket and she agrees to leave it in for now if it's helping. She said that the dose is low enough that there should not be a problem. Continue to leave it in at 1/2 tsp per 20 gallons for now!

OK, will do. He's still pretty prickly, but I'm hoping his scales start to flatten again soon.

I am fairly certain she was using the Metromeds and completed the 14 days course, then the fish dropsied again and started Jungle AP and it made the fish extremely floaty so she switched back to MetroMeds again. But I agree.. If you are still having issues after you have completely a second 14 day treatment with MetroMeds I would go back to the Jungle AP food if it were me.

Yes, that's his history. We were originally going to try 30 days on the MMs. Right now he's on day 7. Should I do 14 instead and if he's still sick after that, switch to the Jungle AP?

poor guy. it sucks it makes him floaty! maybe mixing it with peas? I know they are suppose to eat as much medicated food as they can - but if he still has good appetite I am sure ONE pea won't kill his appetite rofl3.gif

and his poop is 'normal' (as it can be for a dropsy fish!)

hope we can figure it out soon!!!

Yes, he definitely has a good appetite and his behavior hasn't changed at all, which I am very thankful for. If we have to go back to the Jungle AP after the MMs, maybe I could try making a gel food using the AP and some baby food peas to see if that would help with his floatyneses.

I hope we can get it figured soon too. Fingers crossed for a full recovery for Mr. Wendell.

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gel food is good for it! it saturates the JungleFood quite well - just make sure you don't freeze it as I read that it is bad for some reason - makes it rancid.

best of luck

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