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amoonklein

Dropsy And Distress

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Hi all. I went home for a quick bite to eat on lunch and while saying hello to the goldies noticed that Mr. Wendell is looking bloated and slightly pine-coned. Ahhh. Of course I go into panic mode. Unfortunately I had to go back to work so I can't give water params right now, but will post that as soon as I get home tonight. In the meantime, I can give some history on my goldies and hope for some advice until I can give more details and photos.

I think this all started with Mooshu. I thought she was showing signs of Popeye (this was a while ago) because there appeared to be fluid buildup in the corner of one of her eyes (I can provide pictures later). I went through the recommended treatment of Metro Meds and Epsom salt but didn't really see any improvement on that one section of the eye. After treatment, I didn't really see any improvement on that one section of her eye. I starting thinking that maybe she didn't even have pop eye, maybe it was just a growth. It's been almost a year since I originally treated her, and although that bit of eye still has what looks like a little sac of fluid, she has been doing just fine so I didn't re-treat.

Since then, Moose and Mr. Wendell have moved in with her in the 65. Eveyone seemed to be doing just fine (I'll post water params as soon as I can). Today on lunch I noticed Mr. Wendell is looking bloated and seems to be starting to pinecone and I can't tell if one of his eyes looks a little buggy. Moose may also have some potential bugging of the eyes, but I really am not sure right now. I may be super paranoid.

Because of what I noticed, I had some leftover Metro Meds (probably over a year old) so I dropped it in the tank and everyone gobbled it up. I'm sure they aren't nearly as effective anymore since they are so old, but it's better than nothing and I figure if there is some kind of nasty bacterial thing that has been hanging around, then the whole tank has it.

As soon as I got back to work, I called Goldfish Connection and ordered Metro Meds and am having them sent with expedited shipping so I should get them in the next day or so. I have Epsom salt at home so I can dose the tank with that when I get to the house. I am wondering if it would be a good idea to pick up some Maracyn 2 at the store on the way home. Will Metro Meds, Epsom Salt, and Maracyn 2 work OK together or would I be putting too much in the tank?

Sorry for the long rant, but I am so worried and I don't want to mess around with Dropsy... I want to be as proactive as possible.

Thanks and fingers crossed.

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:) First off don' t worry. You have discovered this at the very beginning so it should be fairly easy to treat. I'm not sure it is a good idea to treat all the fish with the epsom salt. Only the one who is bloated. Do you have a qt tank by any chance? It's good that you ordered the metro meds. At least if the mods think you should medicate it will be fresh.

Hold off on adding anything to the tank until one of the mods has stopped by. I've seen a few cases on the forum where fish who had dropsy were succesfully treated with heat (78-80 degrees) and epsom. Usually that and if necessary the metromeds are enough. :)

Keep us posted with your water parameters.

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Thanks Edith. I kinda went into freak out mode when I saw Mr. Wendell like that. I came home this evening and he is still pineconing and bloated, but seems to be happy and is swiming around with Mooshu and Moose so that's a good sign. Yes, I have a QT tank (one 12 gallon and one 26 gallon). Mr. Wendell fits in the 12, but his water params don't stay nice very long. Perhaps I should set him up in the 26? Or should I treat all 3 goldies in the main tank since they could have a bug too?

Here are the answers to the Qs:

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 10-20

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.6 - 7.8

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 8.2

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Drops

[*]Water temperature? Currently sitting at 76.5 but has been in the 75 - 77 range the past few weeks

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 65 gallon and it's been fully cycled since February 11, 2010

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Two Marineland C-360 Canister Filters (each pump 360 gph for a total of 720gph

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 50% weekly water changes (usually on Wednesdays)... they're due for another change tomorrow. 80% - 100% monthly changes about every month or so

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 orandas and I measured them recently: Mr. Wendell is 6 inches long (3.5 body & 2.5 tail) and 1.5 inches wide; Mooshu is 6.25 inches(2.75 body & 3.5 tail) and 1 inch wide; and Moose is a dainty 4.5 inches (2.25 body & 2.25 tail) and almost .75 inches wide.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? AmQuel Plus and NovAqua Plus

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? They get pro gold, hikari lionhead sinking pellets, seafood flakes, slices of orange, spinach, broccoli, peas, and blood worms. Thave 1-2 fast days a week followed by peas.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No. They were slowly added to the 65 gallon tank over the course of a week in February.

[*]Any medications added to the tank? I fed them some leftover Metro Meds this afternoon and am waiting for fresh meds from Goldfish Connection.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Mr. Wendell is bloated and starting to pinecone, Mooshu has a fluid filled sac thingy in the corner of one eye and I did notice a small red dot/bulge thingy on Mooshu's tail (I'll see if I can get some pictures and post them so you guys can see what I'm talking about)

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? They all seem pretty hungry but have been doing some piping at the surface and Mr. Wendell seems to be having some balancing problems.

I did buy the Maracyn 2 today just incase I need to add that to the tank. I also have Epsom salt ready to go... is it OK to add the Epsom salt tonight with the nitrates at almost 20 or should I wait until tomorrow after the water change? Thanks again for any advice... I appreciate it!!!!!!

Allie

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It's a good sign that he is acting normally. I would wait until you can do the water change before adding anything to the tank. Is it only Mr Wendell that is bloated? If the other two aren't bloated then I would set up the qt tank for Mr Wendell. Is it cycled? If not can you transfer some media from your filter to help the cycle along? It would also help Mr Wendell if you can slowly raise his temp to 80 degrees once he is isolated. The dosage for the epsom salt is 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons. If you can add an airstone in his tank so he has lots of bubbles that will be great with the higher temps he needs more oxygen. :heart

As for treating the others I would make sure their water is clean and just wait and see if they also develop symptoms.

Keep us posted Allie. :)

Edited by caitie

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Hi Edith. Sounds good. I will set up the larger QT for Mr. Wendell and fill with 20 gallons. It won't be cycled, but I have an extra Marineland Penguin 350 filter and will borrow some media from the Canister filters (I always keep some extra removable media just in case). I'll monitor it to make sure the params are OK. I also have an extra heater and a few extra air stones and pumps I can set up as well to make him nice and comfy. The total amount of Epsom I'll add will be 1/2 teaspoon for the 20 gallon QT. Should I add the salt after he has acclimated to the new digs or add the salt before I put him in QT?

Thanks again and I'll give you guys an update tonight once Mr. Wendell is settled in QT.

Allie

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I would dissolve the epsom salt well and just add it in after he is in the qt tank. :)

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OK... last night I set up the 26 gallon and put 20 gallons of water in (to make measuring salt and what not easier). I had the tank ready to go, two airstones, a heater and just had to get the filter set up... of course I couldn't find the filter intake tube to save my life. Ahh. I have a backup Aquen filter that pumps 200gph so that would be just enough filtration so I thought I set that one up instead... can't find the intake tube on that one either! It's an intake tube conspiracy! They are hiding in the garage together! Ahh. Luckily, I had a third backup, but it's a whisper 40I internal power filter and only pumps 170 gph. So I'm stuck using that until I can find one of the other filter's intake tubes... hopefully tonight.

Anyway, he made the transition and was all set up as of 11:30 last night. 1/2 teaspoon Epsom salt was added, heat is at 78.2 right now, and I've covered half the tank to give him space to rest. As of this morning, he's still bloated and pretty prickly. I think the metro meds are arriving today... should i start him on a course of the fresh stuff?

Thanks again kokos peeps!

Allie

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Yes you can start him on the metromeds when they get there. Is he still active? :heart

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Yes, he is still his happy peppy self and his dorsal is still perky so I'm hoping for the best. I also notice a long, pretty clear, stringy poo this morning. I'll start him on the course of Metro Meds when they arrive.

Thanks, Edith. Virtual hugs to you for all your help!

heartpump.gif

Allie

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:hi Allie. How is Mr. Wendell doing now?

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Hiya Edith. Sorry I have been M.I.A. I had arthroscopic knee surgery and have been away from the forum for a while... I feel bad that I have been out of touch, especially since Mr. Wendell wasn't feeling well.

I do have good news though... Mr. Wendell seems to be feeling better. His scales are totally flat (hooray)! He's still in QT and on Metro Meds with the heat at 79. The epsom salt is still in the tank as well. How long should I continue the epsom?

Thanks again for everything <3 and I'll keep you guys posted.

Allie

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Sorry about the knee surgery Allie. Hopefully you feel better now. :heart

Glad to hear Mr. Wendell is better. :) If he isn't pineconed anymore you can remove the epsom. Usually it's used for a max of 8 days.

Let us know how he does and maybe post a pic or two for our pleasure. :D

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Just wanted to pop in and say good job on treating the dropsy! :-) I am so glad to hear that it has gone down and that the fresh metromeds arrived so quickly...All of Caitie's advice was spot on! :-)

I would keep him on the metromeds for at least 2 weeks, but u can go up to 30 days if you wish.. Make sure to keep the water extra clean right now. It's sooo important with dropsy to have the cleanest, freshest, water possible...

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Hi Edith (or is it caitie?) and Sue...

I'm feeling better thanks :) I had an arthroscopic partial meniscectomy, a piece of floating cartilage removed, and they got rid of a lot of scar tissue while they were in there. Still kinda sore, but I have a follow-up visit with my doctor tomorrow to remove my stitches and take a look. I should be good as new soon.

Speaking of good as new, Mr. Wendell is doing so great; he is such a trooper! I was able to locate the intake tube on the Aqueon Power filter after some serious searching in the garage so the water params are nice and stable. I removed the epsom salt the evening of the 9th and have continued the Metro Meds. It has been 2 weeks now and he has been doing really well. Should I continue the Metro Meds for another week or so? or is it safe to say he's ready to go back in the main tank?

Thanks again for everything; you guys are so wonderful and kind. It is so comforting to be a part of kokos and everyone here is so great and supportive.

Your the best,

Allie

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Hi Edith (or is it caitie?)

I know that is so confusing isn't it? :krazy: I just never thought I'd get so addicted to this forum I usually drop out of forums after a few days. :) But it's Edith.

I'm so happy Mr Wendell is doing all right. Personally if you're sure he is completely back to normal I would stop the meds. But I would wait a little longer before putting him in the main tank. Just to observe how he does off the meds. :)

You did a great job with him. :heart

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Thanks, Edith :D

I'm so happy things have been going so well for him cause I was super nervous about it. I'll keep him in QT for now and watch him for a while to make sure he's still on the right track. Should I keep the heat up or slowly start lowering the temp?

Hugs,

Allie

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I think you can start bringing it back down slowly. If anything changes with him you can always raise it slowly back up but I'm fairly sure he's doing okay now. :)

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Personally if you're sure he is completely back to normal I would stop the meds. But I would wait a little longer before putting him in the main tank. Just to observe how he does off the meds. :)

You did a great job with him. :heart

I totally agree with Caitie! (I find myself saying that a lot! hahah) :)

No need more extra meds if he has had his full two weeks and is doing better, but I agree more time alone to rest and for you to monitor him would be excellent.

I think you can start bringing it back down slowly. If anything changes with him you can always raise it slowly back up but I'm fairly sure he's doing okay now. :)

Again, I agree with Caitie! lolol Personally I would lower it gradually but not too low. I think 74 is perfect. It's high enough for the beneficial bactera, but low enough that its not sucking up all the oxygen...

At this point it's just watch and see how he repsonds. I have a fish who dealt with dropsy SEVERLY twice I've come to realize he needs his own tank, temp stable around 74-76, and I still do daily water changes to keep him in tip top shape..

That being said I have another few dropsy fish that had it TWICE as well, that have returned to their main tank and are doing well. So it's all just a matter of doing what is best in each case.

I am SOOOO PLEASED that he is doing better. SOOOO SOOOOOO HAPPY! EXCELLENT JOB!!!:Congrats:

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Hi ladies,

Thanks for the advice and the kind words :heart

So far so good... he's still happy and looking good. Temp is at 78 right now and tonight I'll make another adjustment to get it around 77.

I'm hopeful that he continues to do so well and after another week or so in QT, he can make his way back into the main tank to hang out with his buddies... they miss him.

Hugs,

Allie

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Awww. I love a happy ending. :) That is really good news and I hope you'll post some pictures when they are all reunited. :heart

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Hello hello kokos friends,

I wanted to wait to post until Mr. Wendell was for sure healthy again and I am happy to report that IS the case. He is doing sooo much better and I gladly returned him to the main tank. His buddies missed him a bunch and the three of them are swimming more closely together than they used to. I think they new he was in the hospital.

Anyway, thank you thank you for everything. I am very happy and lucky to have such great kokos peeps.

I'll be doing a photoshoot this evening with the crew back together and I'll post the pics up of the reunion.

Allie

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YAY I am so happy to hear this!! Great news!!!

:Congrats:

Good work! :)

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Allie I'm so happy for you and Mr. Wendel! :heart

This is really wonderful news. I can't wait to see these pics. :)

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Hi again.

So..... Mr. Wendell has dropsied again doh11.gif I'm sad, frustrated, worried, and a bunch of other feelings too. I have a lot to share and I also have a lot of questions to ask. Should I start a new topic or keep posting in this one since the history is here? I'm thinking here would be the right place, but I would be happy to repost with a summary if you guys think it's best.

Things had seemed to have been going smoothly with Mr. Wendell up until yesterday-ish. He seemed his happy, perky self, but over the past few days he's been a bit more lazy and then yesterday he seemed a little bloated. Today I went to check on him at lunch and sure enough, he's pineconing again (I wish I had picked up his behavior/symptoms sooner).

I have also noticed the following things happening in the main tank:

1) All 3 goldies have been piping at the surface for at least 5-10 minutes at least once per day. My original thought was that there may not have been enough dissolved oxygen and especially with the heat we have been having lately, the tank has been in the 78-79ish range. I had been shopping around for a new air pump anyway to get more surface agitation and found like the gangster of air pumps, a Coralife super luft air pump SL-38. This thing was kinda expensive, but once I got it home and plugged it in, it REALLY pushes and I am getting great surface agitation. Now that I know they're getting enough oxygen, I'm pretty concerned about their piping at the surface.

2) Since I've paid more attention to the surface gasping, I've also noticed they are yawning at least once to three times per day.

3) I've seen some long, white/clear, stringy poo, some with air bubbles causing the poo to float.

Does this sounds like it's bacterial or some kind of internal parasite thing? I'm really thinking that everyone is affected but Mr. Wendell is the only one who is getting to the point of dropsy from it.

The new fish (Yet to be named) is still inhabiting the QT tank, so when I get home tonight I'm gonna have to play musical tanks to move Mr. Wendell into QT and have a semi early introduction for new fish into the 65. Is this the right move? I'm nervous that if the other goldies in the main have a bug, then new fish will get the bug too... but I'm not sure if I have enough equipment or enough room to set up another QT tank for the new fish to move into until this whole thing blows over.

No matter what, when I get home tonight I'll set up Mr. Wendell in QT and get some epsom in there.

I'm babbling....

Ahhhhhhhh

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I think posting in here was the right move because like you said the history is all there. Lemme take a look back at the thread and refresh my memory and then I will respond soon okay?

Sorry to hear that he is dropsied again!! I know how frustrating that is, but hang in there!

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