Jump to content

Sickly Fish


Sakura

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

Oh bummer, I didn't know he'd be out of town. Well maybe I could try Rick too, he's always really helpful with goldfish health issues.

The tank is at 72 degrees F. You know what though, I actually have two heaters I just realized. I used to have it on the big tank, but I decided not to use it in there since it's summer now anyways. So actually I think I could have one heater in her tank and the other in the aging tank. That would work. I just don't know if I need the heater and epsom because she's not that bad yet. Actually you can barely tell she is starting to pinecone, and it's just in those areas right behind her gills. I only noticed because I know what to look for since it happened this way before.

Should I still do heat and epsom do you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 219
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Regular Member

Sakura,I do not know the 'correct'thing to do,but I would add the epsom and salt to keep it from going any further.You may want to wait for another opinion.......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I would do it - just to be on the safe side... it is better to have it all gone by tomorrow than to wait and have her full dropsy tomorrow....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Okay, sorry for the delay guys! :( I just dug out a syringe for Fuu's tank, and the water looks good actually. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and <10 nitrate. pH is 8.4 like usual. The Maracyn and Maracyn 2 I ordered have arrived today, so I'm wondering about starting her on that. The Maracyn 2 is what helped her feel better last time she was like this, and I did a full five days, but I still suspect that wasn't enough. I hope the infection didn't come back worse than the last time now...

She is more pineconed today and still very lethargic, but she still eats with gusto. I kind of want to use the M and M2 in combination to rule out both gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria here. I'm doing a nice big water change for her tonight (water is sitting out right now) and I can add those meds if that's what I should do. I'm just not totally sure. I'll have to watch the cycle closely when/if I start using those meds, and keep the tank covered well. :)

Fuu is seriously crazy... I've never had a fish that has looked this bad and not died ... but I'm so glad she's hanging in there!

Edited by Sakura
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Fuu is 24 hours into her treatment, and I think the pineconing has gone down slightly. She is absolutely ravenous though, is it possible the medicine is making her more hungry?! Or maybe she just feels a little better so has more of an appetite? Water params still look good too, tested 0 for ammonia and nitrite.

I'm feeling a little optimistic and hopeful that things might improve :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Just want to pop in and send you some good thoughts. I'm glad to hear Fuu is doing a little better. :heart

Hang in there. :hug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks guys! :)

Today things are getting weird. She didn't have any bumps on her side before the M and M2, but now she has white bumps on each side of the caudal peduncle that seem to be coming to the surface and maybe even bursting? It's hard to tell. She is still acting better though and very very hungry! I tested the water again and there is 0.25 ammonia though :( I added a whole bunch of Prime for now, but I really didn't want to do any water changes. I'm afraid that if I do the meds won't be strong enough because it won't be built up over a period of days... is there any sense to this fear? Anways, here's pictures of the newly developed bumps. They were not there at all 24 hours ago, and now they are very prominent.

Sorry about the two black dots, they don't mean anything.

The left circle shows the white stuff coming out of one bump. The right circle shows a white bump.

IMG_6725.jpg

Is this costia or...? Help? I could really use Imo! :)

EDIT: the circles I made aren't showing up for some reason, but you can see the white stuff coming out on the left side of the peduncle, and the white dot on the right side.

Edited by Sakura
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
Is this costia or...? Help? I could really use Imo!

I don't think it's costia, costia would cause the skin to become milky not cause bumps.

Here are the symptoms of costia: Heavy and laboured 'breathing', flashing and rubbing, skin cloudiness caused by excess mucus, focal redness, lethargy. At a later advanced stage (which may be too late for treatment) fish often isolate themselves, sometimes near the water surface or water return. They can also exhibit extreme lethargy with long spells laying on the bottom with clamped fins.

Unfortunately I don't know what the bumps could be, but if something is coming out of them and you don't want to do a wc you should really use something like a new turkey baster to suck out whatever comes out. Just in case what is coming out has bad bacteria. :(

I hope Imo stops by later. Hopefully this is nothing serious. :hug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks Edith! She has some of those symptoms, but not all of them. I have been using a turkey baster to suck out some of the poo, so I can use that for anything coming out too. All I have in there is a little sponger filter (which was doing the job well until the meds) so I find I need to get the poo out with the baster. I only removed her HOB because it was tossing her around and causing too much stress :(

I guess I can't really tell if there's stuff coming out of the bumps, or if the bumps themselves are scraping off. :hmm At least she seems pretty happy though. I will totally do water changes if you guys think I can, I'm just worried the meds won't be strong enough that way and I only have enough packets for 7 days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The fact that the two spots are in the same place make it seem like they are related to bottomsitting or something. They may just be bacterial blisters. I would just keep an eye on them for now. Especially since she is so hungry. That seems like a really good sign.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

wow Sakura...just catching up here..Fuu's white tail/caudal fins looks so perfect! You are doing so well with her.

The two little pimples suggest Fuu has some internal issues and that could also have caused the previous partial dropsy. I find with internal bacteria medicated food is the way to go, especially since she now has such a hearty appetite. This is great news. Metromeds is the best one as it is gentler on the kidneys than some others. Any fish who has dropsied may have weak kidneys.

I would also be careful about using the same baster to remove poop and then suck off anything from her body..I am sure you had thought of that.

Maracyn and Maracyn 2 combo will kill at least some beneficial bacteria. This is because beneficial bacteria are gram positive aerobic bacteria so antibiotics like erythromycin (Maracyn) can be quite harsh on them as that is their target range and antibiotics do not discern good or bad bacteria but swipe them all. I would consider back up filtration while you finish the med course if you possibly can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks for checking in Imo :)

I hope starting the M and M2 was an okay idea... do you think so? Can I use MetroMeds with those? Do you think it would be okay for me to use the Jungle anti-bacterial food instead of MetroMeds? Just because we will be tight on cash for a little while, and it would be cheaper for me! I think I can get the MetroMeds if I need to, it just might be a week before I can.

Okay, I will get another filter set up on her tank once I wake up (heading off to bed now). Maybe I can even swipe some cycled media from the main tank! Unless that would cause another set of problems. They have all been very healthy so far except for some minor flukes issues at first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

oh I hope she gets better! little Fuu! :heart

the spots also my fish had - she also had interior parasites. hopefully the meds you are using disinfect any wound she gets from those. and the medicated food will fix the cause :D

I am not very experienced but - i THINK you can feed medicated food with any water treatments. Because one treats the outside and one the inside - it is like if you put a antibiotic cream and take antibiotic pills.... I think you can just keep an eye on how she reacts - if you see that it overwhelms her... but if she is acting so well it sould go good ;)

best of luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

It's always guesswork to be honest. The fewer the symptoms the harder it gets to guess what is going on. Parasites are much easier to distinguish generally speaking as each have preferred sites and produce more specific symptoms. Bacteria too have preferred location on the fish but different strains can manifest different symptoms.

What I would do now is get her on a course of medicated food and watch that ammonia. Add another filter, more media and make sure there is plenty of dissolved oxygen available as ALL meds rob the water of oxygen. I know I harp on about this but oxygen is so crucial when fish are not well. It is actually used as a destressor in show fish..pumping bubbles into water in the showtank as the fish goes in to relax it.

If you cannot get Metromeds which are soooo awesome, you can get Jungle. A fresh NEW pack is absolutely important. Both MMs and Jungle antibac contain sulfa which is a good anti-inflammatory antibiotic. You can technically use both MMs and Jungle with the Maracyns but I would

hesitate. That is a lot of meds at once. I always prefer to stagger meds if possible.

How many more days with the Maracyn course?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Okay, there is today and then three more days after that left in the Maracyns course. So it will be over on Wednesday.

I just find it odd that the white bumps flared up only after starting the Maracyns. Why would that be? She has as many bubbles as I can manage, a sponge filter bubbling away and a little bubble wand. :) I'll be adding a filter today which should increase surface movement too.

She seems to be doing well this morning. She is mobile and alert, looking for food!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Imo,

What if Fuu has some type of internal parasite that keeps causing the dropsy? Then should I feed her Jungle anti-parasite food instead of MetroMeds? I actually have a brand new bottle of the Jungle anti-parasite, so I was just wondering. We have the money now to order the MetroMeds, but I was just thinking about internal parasites being the cause maybe. I was thinking internal parasites may be the case because every time I treat for a bacterial infection, she seemingly gets sort of better. But then a week or two later, she has the same bacterial infection symptoms again. So maybe I'm removing the symptom (bacterial infection) but not the cause (parasitic infection). Is that possible?

Secondly, the white bumps always come out of her lateral line. You know how there are little holes in the scales where the lateral line is? The white bumps always seem to be growing from out of those little holes. Why would this be? Also both times she has dropsied, the pineconing started just behind her gills. Does this mean anything to you?

Tomorrow will be her last day of treatment, so I am just trying to think about things to do after this. Since starting the treatment she is no longer sitting on the bottom with fins clamped, but now she is surface hanging again! :doh11:

Edited by Sakura
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Oh no sakura she doesn't look very good....

I have ALWAYS used the Jungle anti P - just because I cannot get the Metros here... If I remember correctly it has the Metro inside AND some Prazi and a few other things I think.... maybe it would be worth a try - since it is more broad range? just a thought.

I hope she pulls through - she is so gorgeous!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

She is just having a super hard time getting down to the bottom. She is so floaty right now and I have no idea why. But believe it or not, she looks better than she did before the M and M2 treatment!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

did you try the epson? would that be useful? i think it is so sad when they get floaty like that... maybe fast her - but if she needs the meds...

all I can say from my experience is that one of my dropsy fish (dr.House) totally healed with the Jungle - I have done a round on all the fish now and it makes me feel better to know that I am also cleaning the inside....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Aaaargh :madrant. 30 minutes writing a reply only to have my computer delete it in one second, I could scream.

I will have to summarize :). Apologies if this sounds short and to the point with no fancy edges -want to post fast.

Fisrt of all I do not think Fuu has parasites. I think you are in danger of overmedicating her. In the short time you have had her she has had a lot of meds and each time we use meds we weaken a fish unless it is absolutely the perfect medication. Always hard to know.

You treated her with prazi and salt which should have eliminated flukes and main parasites...any new really bad parasites would have to be inrtroduced via a new fish.

Also Fuu does not display typical parasite features like white poop and lack of appetite,flashing and frayed fins.

Remember dropsy behind the gills is only ONE feature of costia- which favors gills yes. Dropsy in that area can also mean DAMAGE to the gills.

You are not the first to notice meds produce secondary symptoms. Antibiotics can do that. Fungal infections are the most common. As antibiotics completely strip the immunity (and take over for the interim) they also have side effects, fungal growths are the most common.

Fuu has suffered from ammonia to the gills being stressed from shipping, and starting out in an uncycled tank, and then medications (these are very harsh on gills). You cannot see the damage you say, that is very good, and hopefully it will heal because you cannot see a large amount of damage.

You need to track your water daily. It cannot be guesswork right now. You need to be checking water morning and night for ammonia and pH and nitrites. It is absolutely amazing what a SUSTAINED period of time in perfect ammonia free cycled water can heal. I suggest another filter or house for more media. Wait till this very harsh med course is done, several days if poss and if he is still bad then maybe med food. Metromeds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Aw Imo thank you for spending all that time writing a response even though it got deleted!

What you said about the parasites makes sense, I mean she came from a great source so really she shouldn't have anything too nasty. It feels impossible to keep on top of water quality with these harsh meds! I check each night (before dosing the meds) for ammonia and nitrite. Ammonia has been 0.50. I added that filter with a little bit of media from the main tank, and all that did was make a little bit of nitrites show up! I have been dosing Prime as heavily as I safely can since I have been scared to do water changes- that would take out some of the med. I know it's walking a very thin line and I feel terrible about it! But tonight is her last dose of the meds, then tomorrow night I am going to get her in some fresh water. pH and temp matched :) Then I will take media from the main tank (I'm sure they are healthy) so Fuu can have a cycled tank again. Still testing to make sure of course. She is doing well considering. I'll order those MetroMeds but won't dose for a while like you said to give her a chance to hopefully recover a bit.

Actually as of tonight she has finished six full days of the meds, maybe I can stop now instead of doing the last dose. That way I could get her in clean fresh water sooner. Think I should do that? I'm just worried about stopping too soon is all.

I'm so attached to my little Fuu, I just want her to be healthy and happy again :heart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...