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Sickly Fish


Sakura

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Sakura I'm so sorry, I just caught up on this thread and you really can't get a break can you :( This really is the worst possible time :( I don't have any suggestions but just wanted to let you know I'm sending you trans-Atlantic hugs (they're really really big ones!) and thinking of you :hug

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Oh no... I hope I didn't just make a mistake. So let me explain what happened. Today I noticed that Fuu's red abrasion-looking thing on her side had developed a little white bump sticking out of it. Isn't this what columnaris looks like? It looks soft, and is a very small white bump poking out from her skin- always surrounded by an irritated area of red. It would be tough to get a picture of, because you can't even see it unless you look at her from a certain angle. I know I said I'd try, and I'm sorry I haven't yet. I've been a little distracted, but it's still on my to-do list! Anyways, it's the same type bump that she had under her eye, and that one actually seems to have responded well to the HP swab I did. So I decided (after reading a bit in Fancy Goldfish) that I would try a swab on the two "abrasion" looking areas, since one has that same white bump now. So I did that, and when I returned her to the water she acted pretty upset. She started breathing heavy, and then flashed her side against the bottom of the tank. Does the HP burn their skin or something? Then I noticed that the white bump was missing (maybe got rubbed off?) and in it's place was a little blood spot. Like finger prick size. Poor little Fuu :( I just feel so terrible for her. She was barely even out of the water, and not for very long either.

In other news: second round of Prazi is finished, and her gills do not look swollen at the moment. The tank has been horrendously cloudy and I think it's bacteria. Still has a very "fishy" smell to it too. I keep the filter really clean, so it's not from poo or food building up. I think her belly may be getting slightly mushy, but it may just be my overactive imagination. Or it could be because she's constipated. I fed her a pea today along with her Medi-gold. If that doesn't help, I'll try a grain of epsom in a pea tomorrow.

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Alright so after some more reading in Fancy Goldfish (awesome book) I think it may possibly be Epistylis. If you have the book and want to look it up, it is on page 35. The description of it sounds very similar to what Fuu has, and the treatment is .3% salt. I decided to add the salt up to .1% to start. Will add up to .2% tomorrow, and then .3%. The good thing about this is that even if it's not Epistylis, the salt really shouldn't hurt anything, and probably will help no matter what it is. Plus I feel like I'm doing something to help. :)

Does anybody else's fish react when you add in the salty water? I dissolve the salt first in tank water, and then pour it in, but I can always see a "cloud" of salt water as it disperses into the tank. When the "cloud" reaches the fish, they always gasp a little bit. Seems stressful, but is it really?

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Yeah my little Bandit always reacts to salt. He goes bonkers, swimming around really really fast and banging into everything. Then after a couple of minutes it's back to normal. :blink: None of my other fish react just him. :rolleyes:

By the way I hope everything works out for Fuu. I must say you are certainly giving her all the care you can.:heart

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I seriously think there was something poisonous in that salt. The morning after adding salt up to .1% I checked on her and her fins were RED. More red than I've ever seen any fins. Also she was MUCH more lethargic. I didn't really know what it was from, and it didn't occur to me it could be the salt, so I quickly did a full water change and bumped the salt up to .2%. She got WORSE. She will barely move at all and her fins are just so RED. OMG what a nightmare! I just realized that it has to be the salt because I didn't change anything else. So I quickly transferred her over to my water aging tank where she will spend the night until I can get everything sorted out in the morning. I will not be using that salt again ever. I was iffy about it too because the package says "plain salt nothing added", but the website says it's only 95% pure or something like that, and they do not say what the 5% impurities might be. Obviously something bad. If I lose her because of this I will be so upset :cry1

Gahhhhh :krazy: What a major setback :(

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Oh my Gosh Sakura :( I am so sorry you lost your beautiful Mugen :( How Fuu doing today??Any better in the tank with out salt?I can not believe all the problems you have been having of late :( Hang in there,focus on Fuu,lots of Hugs for you!!!

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Thanks. I checked on her this morning and it looks like her slime coat is coming off in threads. I just don't know what to do. I might ask my vet because she treats fish, and is actually really well known in the koi community around here, so maybe she would know what I should do. Meanwhile I need to test parameters.

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Thanks Buggy! Her fins are looking much less red after being in the salt-free water for a day now. She's breathing pretty hard though. I think I'll stick to API aquarium salt from now on, even though it's pretty expensive.

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Oh gosh Sakura,I'm so sorry I did not check this thread earlier-I am so sorry about Mugen :cry1:heart What kind of salt did you use? Why don't you try starting a post in another area where the mods check in-like d&d or 911? I can't tell you what's going on either,but I'm sure 1 of them will............. :bingo:

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:oops: ,sorry,it just seemed like you might get their attention elsewhere. I know I bought Mortons kosher salt and did not read the label until just before I put it in,and it def has an additive :huh: Then after I got my big tank I got their solar salt,and that seems fine so far.Truth be told,I feel safest using API,it just gets a bit much w/ 170g. I'm glad Fuu is doing better in the other tank,that was a good move........... :gfish:
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Well it turns out I cannot bring Fuu to the vet, it would cost $60-70 just for the exam, and then additional cost to buy any medications. The vet cannot prescribe any medications without first doing an exam. But my vet was very helpful in that she asked me to send an email with a description of the problem and some pictures, and she strongly suggests a bacterial infection and possible parasites are at play here. Which is what I've been treating for all along. She suggested making an antibiotic gel food, but I am already feeding Medi-Gold every day, and have been for about a week now. She thinks this is caused by a bacteria called mycobacterium and says there is no good treatment for it. Things are not looking good for my poor Fuu. :cry1

I am certain that the other two goldfish connection fish died from this same bacteria, and I am assuming that my whole system is infected with it- including my almost fishless cycled tank!!! (I use the same Python) Do you guys think that (after/if Fuu dies) I should do a major cleaning out and rehaul and start completely fresh? I don't want to risk losing any more new fish, but I would hate to start over on my fishless cycle that is almost done. But, if the fish are added to a cycled tank with good, clean water, shouldn't they be able to fight off small numbers of this terrible bacteria anyways? Or not necessarily?

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:blink:

Mycobacterium is fish TB. It usually presents with lesions, sores on the skin that do not heal..one of the main criteria for diagnosis (prior to granuloma biopsy) is emaciation.....did Mugen lose a lot of weight and go into a C shape at the end?

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Oh it is?! I didn't know that, yikes! Let's see, Mugen did go into a very pronounced "C" shape for the last week or so that he was alive. I don't really think he lost weight though, at least not noticeably so. He wouldn't eat, so if I hadn't force fed him with a syringe, maybe he would have lost weight. If that counts. :hmm

One of these days I need to get a microscope so I can better diagnose these things!

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Well if its fish TB she is right, there is not really a good cure and a total disinfect is very much in order. The granulomas/ulcers can be internal but are more often and most often external. Usually an aquatic vet will do a biopsy on a lesion to determine if its TB. That is the only proven way to tell.

You should wear gloves to clean, it isnt that infectious to humans but it can be passed on as a kind of itchy skin swelling thing on the hands.

However I wouldn't diagnose TB for sure without granulomas + a biopsy of them.

And you cant really tell with a microscope...you need to culture bacteria to ID them..but a microscope would be totally awesome to see micro-organisms and ID parasites!

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Hi Trinket, sorry I haven't responded sooner. Today Fuu has dropsy all over, and her dorsal fin is totally erect just like Mugen's was when he was dying. She is not in a C shape like he was, but I really think she is feeling the same kind of pain that he was based on her posture and her actions (of lack of action). I don't really know what to do. Ideally I would take her to my vet and get a bacteria culture because maybe I could then get injections for her which might help. The only thing is that is so expensive, and what she has may not even be treatable. Or I could keep trying what I have been doing, but I really feel that she will die soon then. I've been considering using clove oil to just put her out of pain, since I don't think I can help her. But even then I'd have to bring her to the vet to have a necropsy done, because I do not want to risk getting new fish if there is fish TB in my system.

Any advice guys? What would you do in this situation? Oh, I forgot to mention that Fuu has dropsy (raised scales) all over her body, but I believe they are most raised in the area directly behind her gills. But it is all over her body. She has a difficult time getting off the bottom, and her dorsal is totally erect as if she's in extreme pain. Just like Mugen's dorsal was before he died.

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Oh hun I am so sorry that all this crap is happening to you right now. I haven't been able to focus very well so I haven't been to D&D in a while. I don't have much to add. You're doing everything you can and more for poor Fuu and I really hope she pulls through.

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