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caitie

Bandit Flipping Over

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How's Bandit today, Edith?

Still the same.:) This will be a long term problem for him so I just have to get used to seeing him like this. Trinket mentioned once that we may never get rid of all the worms but we can hope to keep it under control so his quality of life can remain good. I'd be happy if he would stop flipping over. :rolleyes:

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So many different kinds of worms. I have never known anything like this...poor wee Bandit :heart He really is an example to us all who whine when we have a mere cold :ill

I am very curious about the types of worms Edith. When you had time I would like a description of each kind you have seen. Some key features of different types would be..if they have segmented sections (lines), how they travel, in jumpy hops or regular rythm, color and if the head end is a different color from the body, and of course SIZE in mms. :)

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So many different kinds of worms. I have never known anything like this...poor wee Bandit :heart He really is an example to us all who whine when we have a mere cold :ill

I am very curious about the types of worms Edith. When you had time I would like a description of each kind you have seen. Some key features of different types would be..if they have segmented sections (lines), how they travel, in jumpy hops or regular rythm, color and if the head end is a different color from the body, and of course SIZE in mms. :)

The very first ones he passed were about 4-5mm long, not segmented and tapered at both ends, white and they were either dead or very weak I didn't see them move.

Then he started passing smaller ones which were white also, thin but not hairlike more like an embroidery thread, they didn't seem to be segmented, no outstanding detail they looked smooth all over, the ends do taper. They are about 2-3mm long. They just slide along the glass in a straight line I haven't seen any swimming they seemed to stay on the back glass and the bottom of the tank. When you tried to siphon them out or touch them with a stick they would roll up and they then looked like a tiny white speck on the glass. With time they just got progressively smaller.

Then yesterday he passed a couple of new ones they were about 4mm long, tan colored, they still look smooth not segmented but one end is tapered and the other end looks flatter, they also look a little wider than the white ones. These ones move more like a little snake the slither on the bottom swaying side to side. But they seem very weak.

When I look at Bandits butt end it now looks like he has small nodules all over his insides. I included a pic but they don't show up very well. I would describe it like looking at a bowl of minute tapioca. (gross I know) You can also see that black spot in his flesh that I mentioned before.

Bandit220-04-10059.jpg

Thanks again Imo for spending so much time helping me and Bandit out.:heart :heart :heart

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Bandit has developed yet another new problem. :why: While I was doing his wc I noticed that his anal vent is protruding and it looks bloody. He won't stay still enough for a picture. Is this from the worms or is this something else? Should I be doing anything like adding aquarium salt or do I just let it be? It doesn't seem to bother him at all.

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..yes yes the nodules...these are the cyst heads where the larval cysts push out the larval forms. This is such a classic case of total internal worm infestation poor wee baby :heart. There seems to be at least 2 types here. The rather more common thread/pinworms/nematodes and the larger ones you describe which are probably tapeworm relatives/cestodes.

The swollen red anal vent is from the worms pushing their way out when they become too large to live comfortably in his tiny body. Its very common and I'm surprised you haven't seen that till now.

Water born meds like piperazine, flubendazole and anthelmintics like prazi are for NON ENCYSTED worms. They should eliminate worms as they come out but they will not touch internal encysted forms.

The cysts are numerous and pressing on his swimbladder making it difficult for the airsacs to inflate- the process of gas exchange responsible for a fishes bouancy and swimming ability...this is why he will tilt and get floaty when the cysts are full.

I think there is no harm in repeated Jungle antiparasite doses in Bandit's case. Only oral medication has the possibility of reaching the larval forms forming inside those cysts...through GI tissue. You can add melafix or 0.1% salt to help with his sore vent.

:hug

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oh poor Bandit... he is so tiny with that huge belly... hope he gets better - its no fun having a sick fish.

PS. Could Penelope have a similar thing??? many of their symptoms are similar...

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Another quick question. I have salt in his tank now and I started him back on the Jungle food. Should I let him eat as much of the food as he wants? He is very small and I always tend to underfeed my fish, but Bandit has a huge appetite. If I give it to him he can easily eat 10-12 of the jungle pellets twice a day. Would that be a good thing or should I give him only about 5 twice a day as I usually do? :rolleyes:

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I think those things are quite hard to digest...he's a tiny fish and the last thing he needs now is constipation...if I was increasing the amount of food I'd do it slowly and keep an eye on him. :) I know mine eat a lot more than I used to feed my previous goldfish, it's amazing how much they can shove in their mouths! I am starting to notice growth with Rusty though and no constipation so they can obviously eat more than I thought. My fish are bigger than yours though, maybe the distinction between too much and not is a lot smaller.

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Thanks Sarah. :) I usually control how much he gets on the days he eat the gel food. Because he does have the horrible floating. But I was wondering more about the quantity of meds he is actually getting. Since he can eat so much when you give him the opportunity I sort of thought maybe if for the 4 days he is on the med food if he eats more, then he is getting more anti parasite med in him it might get rid of the worms faster. Right now it is very easy to tell he isn't constipated it's a real poop factory in his tank. :roflMaybe I can feed the same amount as usual but three times a day when he is on the med food. :hummm

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If you are around in the day time by all means feed 3 times. Its better small amounts often than a large dose once.

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PS. Could Penelope have a similar thing??? many of their symptoms are similar...

Have you seen worms in the tank? :unsure:

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If you are around in the day time by all means feed 3 times. Its better small amounts often than a large dose once.

Yes I'm home right now so that is not a problem. The thing is he is so swollen but he isn't constipated. I imagine it the cysts and the worms, but he looks starving. Not just normal begging like the others do. But if I give him more I get the impression he will explode poor thing. :(

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poor little sweetie :(

The trouble is he probably is hungry and the dang worms are getting more than their share of his food :(

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When he is off the Jungle food I usually give him homemade gel food because it would help his floaties but now he floats whatever he eats. I'm about to order some stuff online and I was wondering if I should order some food like for him (and the others) that would offer some variety and maybe be more nutritious? Any suggestions on what kind? I notice that a lot of people feed Hikari Lionhead or Saki-Hikari, would that be better than the gel food?

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Well I will be shot down by the gel food makers reading this as I am sure it is the best but my fish got floaty on my cooking and I switched to Saki Hikari and never looked back. No floatiness since. I do however also feed at least 3 meals of just plain veggies or fruit a week as supplement. I swear by Saki Hikari, the tiny pellets are great for fish in my opinion as its less to grind and easier and fast to digest as its so small. Lots of pro-biotics in it too and a great rich krill smell :feedme

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Great! Thanks Imo and I swear not to shoot you down! ;) But I like the idea of feeding more than just the gel especially with Bandit I think he needs all the help he can. He already gets a fruit gel once a week but I will add some fresh veggies to their diet too. So off to order some Saki Hikari. :)

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Let me know how he likes it :D

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I use Saki-Hikari too and my fish love it! It's also reassuring knowing that Rusty isn't going to choke on anything, when Red was at the fish store he was getting 2 koi pellets a day, those things are like 6mm across! And S-H sinks too, so no air intake with food :D

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Been looking to order it online but they only have huge bags and they are expensive. :o I only have four small goldies those bags would spoil before I use them up. I'm going to try and call a few places in town to see if they sell smaller bags, hopefully I'll find some.

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Mine is a 200g bag (7oz), I got it on ebay I think, might be worth a look? I still don't tend to get through a bag before it'll reasonably go off but I get a good way through it. I'd use more if it was their main diet but mine get gelfood a lot too. It's not cheap stuff, mine was about ?11 and I got it cheap looking at how much some other people have paid for it!

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Thanks for the tip Sarah I'll have a look at ebay. Never think to look there for fish stuff. :doh11:

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New thing on Bandit. :thud Well not so new, I've been observing this on his fins for the last 2 weeks. He has some white spots coming out on his dorsal and anal fins. :why: It is not ich. On the dorsal he has a big one and on one of his anal fins he has like 2 or 3 smaller ones. I could only get the dorsal on a pic. And only cause he was floating belly up. Now this is white and raised showing up on only one side of his fins. It seems to be getting bigger not in width but in thickness. Any idea what this is? I researched a bit on the internet and found out sometimes worm cysts can also be on the fins. :please tell me that isn't true. And if it is that do I have to do something about it or just go on as I'm doing now?

Edited by caitie

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:oops: Forgot the pictures.

Bandit04-05-10079.jpg

Bandit04-05-10083.jpg

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Oh bother...I really hope it's not, that's the last thing that little fishie needs. He didn't grow his fins back for worms to live in them. Though I'd imagine they're less dangerous in the fins than in the body. His tummy looks very swollen...is that normal for him or just the photos?

Did you find any saki-hikari in the end?

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Yeah his little belly is almost always swollen like that. Darn worms! :krazy: They are taking up so much space in him. I feel uncomfortable for him. It doesn't seem to bother him though, he be flipped over like that for a couple of hours and then he's fine. I'm just thankful, but amazed that he is not developing a sore on his tummy from it being exposed to the air every day. :)

To be honest I haven't had time to search for the hikari much. I have to get back to it though.:)

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