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Bandit Flipping Over


caitie

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caitie (always comes before Edith sorry) -I would not swab him. Sounds like it really is not worth it. If he is stressed with handling all you are doing is breaking his immune response up. The slimecoat is where over half of a fishes immunity resides. By handling fish we disturb it and if they are stressed at the time there is a release of cortisol that lowers immunity temporarily. Exactly what you do not want right now.

The salt was a much better plan. And the wipe down/clean.

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Okay thanks Imo.

He seems a lot more active tonight. Although he still swims in corkscrews. But at least he isn't bottom sitting.

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The corkscrew swimming is I am afraid typical of encysted fish. Ive seen it before here at kokos years ago..the balance is all wonky as the organs get too heavy and the airsacs are squished & cannot osmote gases efficiently :(

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The corkscrew swimming is I am afraid typical of encysted fish. Ive seen it before here at kokos years ago..the balance is all wonky as the organs get too heavy and the airsacs are squished & cannot osmote gases efficiently :(

Oh so that doesn't sound good at all. :(

Since he still seems to have the will to live, do I let him fight it out, or should I let him go? I figure this can only get worse and not better since he isn't growing?

I've been meaning to ask you something Imo. When I spoke of Bandit to my dog's vet, he actually came to see him at my place out of curiosity. He told me that if Bandit had been bigger, a lot bigger, he could have tried injecting some antiparasite meds directly into his flesh where we can see the little cysts. But that since Bandit is soo tiny there was no way to do that safely. Have you ever heard of someone doing that? I'm just asking because I want to evaluate my vet to see if he could of any help with other fish troubles in the futur. :D

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this sucks....

I got the 'Fancy Goldfish' book the other day - and OMG most of the treatments he recommends ARE shots! I believe he says from a 2inch fish on.... It's pretty crazy that book - he also basically diagnoses EVERYTHING with a microscope! (imagine I tell bf I 'need a microscope incase a fish gets sick again' - he is going to bash it on my head!!! :rofl )

I never handle my fish also because I think they feel my stress - which makes them more stressed too.

I hope Bandit fights this too - he has looked way worse. :heart

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Poor little Bandit :(:hug

I think the other problem with a swab on a fish as small as Bandit is it's going to be really hard to avoid getting it into the gills, especially if he's wiggling. The only one of mine I'd even consider it on is Red because he's so mellow and isn't scared of my hands, they usually mean food.

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I've been meaning to ask you something Imo. When I spoke of Bandit to my dog's vet, he actually came to see him at my place out of curiosity. He told me that if Bandit had been bigger, a lot bigger, he could have tried injecting some antiparasite meds directly into his flesh where we can see the little cysts. But that since Bandit is soo tiny there was no way to do that safely. Have you ever heard of someone doing that? I'm just asking because I want to evaluate my vet to see if he could of any help with other fish troubles in the future. :D

First of all injecting fish is not so unusual. It is usually done on large fish who are very sick but stable and whose history is good in terms of water conditions and care. These kind of fish show the best response to injections. Injections (primarily done for internal bacterial diseases) do not have a 100% success rate, it is closer to 60% and remember that figure is biased since usually people who pay for injections for their fish are owners who have looked after their fish pretty well and the fish have a robust history and are large.

Injecting for worms is a little bit different. What you really need to do if you plan on working through this with your vet (sooo nice that he is curious and actually visited...wow ..a keeper) is establish EXACTLY what kind of worm groups you have. This in turn will tell you where and when they are hatching out based on the life cycle of the worm type and would be essential if you were to inject. For example - injected meds would be best for the hatched out worms that inhabit for example the GI tract/intestine. I dont know that injections would penetrate the very early larval forms which are often located in the liver or sometimes deep in many areas of tissue. But again knowing what worms you have would help the vet analyze the situation best.

From what you describe of the last worm you saw (red with tapered ends)it sounds like a regular nematode... cammalanus.

I also think you may have a "thorny head" worm group here. These would be hard to reach with injections since the encysted nodules are spaced apart and you would need to hit deep inside each tiny cyst to stop that cyst producing more worms. The cysts are hard and tough and inpenetratable. Once these kind of worms have hatched they move to a larger area like the intestines and from there can be much more easily killed or passed out.

The main problem with the whole thing is the circle of life which keeps on continuing as the worms come out of the fish they drop many eggs in the water which then find their way back into the fish...and so on. To keep it manageable Bandit needs much more attention than other tanks. He needs the tank sides and bottoms cleaned up and large changes done daily to rid the water of many possible eggs that cannot be seen and are lurking.

The circle of life timing is also crucial for the AP meds which also get right inside the fish remember- just like injections - and for Bandit maybe less dangerous.

It might be best to have your vet help you make up a course of oral meds based on catching the right points of the identified worms particular life cycle.

Meanwhile cleaning the tank as much as you can really does help keep the load lighter. I hope this isn't all overwhelming and depressing -just trying to get the facts straight, its really not so uncommon in pond fish who can live for years and years rather vigorously with worms :heart

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Oh that's great info Imo. :)

Actually the vet won't work with Bandit he basically told me he was too tiny to save. But I trust your instinct more because you know Bandit well by now and also I 'm not sure if he has a lot of experience with fish.

But I was curious about those injections.

And I did learn something that might help explain why Bandit keeps getting these worms in what you said, I've been doing daily 80 - 100 % wc but I've been wiping down the walls and bottom only maybe once a week. I'll be doing that daily from now on it might help. :)

Thank you Helen and Federica for your continued support. :heart

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scrub scrub scrub!

we all love Bandit - he is just too cute - and him being so tiny just makes him even more adorable. it sucks that most medical research etc for goldfish isn't more known. I think so far people still think it is only 'worth' saving a prize winning goldie etc.... :(

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Another quick update. The red sore on his side seems to be healing. It looks like a scab has formed over it but it is still raised. I'll be leaving the salt in there a little longer.

For once his little body is not bloated so I assume I can give him a break from the AP food.

Tonight he scared me something crazy. I walk into the dining room and I hear the sound of something knocking ont the glass of his tank, when I look over I see one of the bigger river rocks moving. I go to look and I see this tiny piece of tail sticking out from under the rock. :o No idea how or why he lodged himself under that rock, it must be 4 times bigger than he is. :doh11: So I have no way of knowing how long he was stuck under there but when I released him he went into hiding in his flower pot. He seemed a little bit weak, hopefully it is a reaction to the stress. We'll see how he is tomorrow.

I swear he's turning my hair gray even if I do tint it!!! ;)

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That might explain why he's not bloated....squidged it all flat! They sure know how to find trouble don't they...hopefully he'll recover fine, he must have had quite a fright :( Watch your ammonia - stress can cause it to rocket :( Poor little silly Bandit heartpump.gif

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oh nooo bandit!!!! :badidea

he's like "don't think mommy is taking me seriosuly anymore - nothing like a good scare to make her run back to pamper me!" :icecream

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That might explain why he's not bloated....squidged it all flat!

:doh11: That's what happened!!!! :yeah:

he's like "don't think mommy is taking me seriosuly anymore - nothing like a good scare to make her run back to pamper me!" :icecream

For sure. He misses all the attention he was getting at night. Now he is in the same room with all the other fish tanks, he's just one of the gang again. ;)

Sarah thanks for the reminder about the ammonia, I always forget stress does that. :testkit:

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How is our little guy doing today :)

His sore is almost all gone, but he hasn't been very active in the last day or two. His appetite is still good tho. And he def isn't floating anymore but he has to struggle a bit to get to the top.

Thanks for asking Imo.:)

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We should pair him up in a tank with Addie so we can watch them doing weird and wonderful things with buoyancy....

Glad to hear his sore's gone down, hopefully he'll be a bit more chipper tomorrow :)

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I think he gets very tired, healing, expelling worms and putting up with them must make him tired.

I hope he'll be back to his positive lively self very soon!

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We should pair him up in a tank with Addie so we can watch them doing weird and wonderful things with buoyancy....

I can picture that. :rofl

I think he gets very tired, healing, expelling worms and putting up with them must make him tired.

I hope he'll be back to his positive lively self very soon!

That must be it, and also I just realized that his tank is almost 80 degrees. We are having a heat wave here and the dining room is a lot warmer than the room where he used to be. :o I just fixed up a fan to help so maybe by tonight he'll feel better. :)

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oh great news Edith!!! this tiny guy is the biggest fighter I have ever seen!!! :bingo:

Imagine he gets like 20years old! you can tell everyone 'his story' :heart

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Thanks guys, it's true that he is a fighter. I never thought he would make it this long but he still manages to surprise me. When he isn't scaring the daylights out of me. :rolleyes:

Today when I came home the first thing I noticed is that he isn't flipped over when resting. :whatjust: He just sits there with his little dorsal fin up in the air, the most marvelous sight I ever saw. My mom said he was staying 'right side up' all day. :nana

And then when I went to feed him no more spirals, he was swimming normally? :blink: I guess he passed whatever was pressing on his swimbladder and is now in remission. I hope this will last long enough for him to gain some strength because he stills rests too often for my peace of mind.

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