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Bandit Flipping Over


caitie

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Oh dear...his butt's starting to look as big as mine and that's not a good thing... fbottom.gif Poor little guy, he's also got some red streaks in his tail :(

:rofl:rofl

Yeah the red streaks came a little while ago and they won't leave! His water is testing perfect everyday but the streaks stay.

I just noticed too that on his side he has two scales sticking up and it looks like something is pushing out from under them. :o This came after the wc and the pics I just took. It doesn't even show up on the pics. I'll wait till tomorrow and if it is still like that I'll try and get a pic of it.

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Oh dear...his butt's starting to look as big as mine and that's not a good thing... fbottom.gif Poor little guy, he's also got some red streaks in his tail :(

:rofl:rofl

Yeah the red streaks came a little while ago and they won't leave! His water is testing perfect everyday but the streaks stay.

I just noticed too that on his side he has two scales sticking up and it looks like something is pushing out from under them. :o This came after the wc and the pics I just took. It doesn't even show up on the pics. I'll wait till tomorrow and if it is still like that I'll try and get a pic of it.

I really wonder what this is. It;s veyr strange, I hope he's not in pain :( I just wanted to send you some good wishes and I hope that he gets better soon!

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I really wonder what this is. It;s veyr strange, I hope he's not in pain :( I just wanted to send you some good wishes and I hope that he gets better soon!

Thanks Tay. :)

I don't think he is in pain since he is still very active and hungry. :D But I don't think those bruises are a good thing hopefully Imo will know what they are.

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I really wonder what this is. It;s veyr strange, I hope he's not in pain :( I just wanted to send you some good wishes and I hope that he gets better soon!

Thanks Tay. :)

I don't think he is in pain since he is still very active and hungry. :D But I don't think those bruises are a good thing hopefully Imo will know what they are.

I'm glad he's still eating. That;s definitely a good sign. :D When did the bruises start appearing, and when did he start getting square in his bottom?

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Just wishing you the best of luck Edith!

those bruises do look very strange - like visible organs! :doh11:

hope he isn't pooping 'blood' anymore.

fingers crossed!

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Wow. That is weird. It almost looks like he swallowed something cube shaped. Anything he could have swallowed?

Nope. The river rocks are about 3 times bigger than he is and he only has a big silk plant and a big terracotta pot. :unsure:

It's not the first time he becomes a little bit squarish but this time it's so much more, and then with the bloody poop he had a few days ago and now those 'bruises' I'm thinking he might be bleeding internally now. I guess if it doesn't resolve itself this time, I might have to make a tough decision. :( I'll wait until Imo drops by just in case she has another explication about all of this.

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Hopefully it doesn't come to that difficult decision Edith :( But no matter what happens I know you would make the best decision for Bandit, and he is in good hands in your care. At least he's still active and hungry!

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It looks like the gonad area on a female fish :hmm. Its very close to the 'exit' bit...it looks to me as if the worm infestation is inhabiting that area which is very stretchy..and backs onto the muscle at the end.

I have also seen this distinctive square butt bizness on stunted fish. Fish that were stunted when very small and the organs grow at different rates thereafter. Just 2 thoughts. I don't think it changes too much here. As long as Bandit is still eating and willing to fight. And also thatbhis poo has returned to normal color...has it? :unsure:

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It looks like the gonad area on a female fish :hmm. Its very close to the 'exit' bit...it looks to me as if the worm infestation is inhabiting that area which is very stretchy..and backs onto the muscle at the end.

I have also seen this distinctive square butt bizness on stunted fish. Fish that were stunted when very small and the organs grow at different rates thereafter. Just 2 thoughts. I don't think it changes too much here. As long as Bandit is still eating and willing to fight. And also thatbhis poo has returned to normal color...has it? :unsure:

Thanks Imo. So Bandit would be a little Bandita? :oops:

So if I understand you correctly the purplish marks on his body would be some of his organs growing too much for his small body. I know he is stunted because he hasn't grown in the year I've had him, even though he was in a 20 gallon until he got sick. :(

He poops some normal poop, some empty casings and some red every once in a while.

One more question if the organs keep growing like that I imagine at some point it will become painful? :unsure:

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Mmmm. I don't know that it becomes exactly painful...I suppose that is anyones guess though...:( what happens with stunted fish is the organs grow but the body does not so the organs get bruised -squashed in there in the tiny bodyframe of the fish. (I think when a fish is in pain it stops eating.)

One thing that does happen with stunted fish is they lose balance and become tilty and floaty.

I wonder if Bandit is a Bandita (I can hear the castonets in the background...:D)

I wouldn't worry about the poop variation too much at this point. Where are you with the AP food -on or off? And is he getting his peas sometimes/in between too :) ?

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I wonder if Bandit is a Bandita (I can hear the castonets in the background...:D)

I wouldn't worry about the poop variation too much at this point. Where are you with the AP food -on or off? And is he getting his peas sometimes/in between too :) ?

Got confused at the word gonads. :doh11::D

He has had a second 3 days on this month. So 2 more to go.

And his gel food is made with a lot of peas. But he still get peas every few days.

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Is he still actively swimmming around the tank at times? Is he flipping over?

I think he has two issues, the variety of worm species encysting plus the stunting which is not helping the situation.

You are still doing incredibly well with him :heart

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I mentioned yesterday that he had a couple of raised scales on one side and that something seemed to be pushing out from under them. I just saw that the scales have fallen off and he now has a small pinprick. It seems very red. But it doesn't seem to affect him. I will be adding salt to his water 0.01% tonight just to make sure it doesn't get infected.

Oh and way off the topic of his health, I've decided to move his tank into a room where we are more often. Right now he is in my bedroom and he only gets attention a few times when I go in there. But my mom was saying how he gets so super excited every time someone walks by his tank and she is feeling bad that he might be getting lonely. :rolleyes:

So he will be promptly moved tomorrow into the dining room where the family spends most of our time. Apparently she has been 'visiting' him in secret and she has grown attached to him, even if he doesn't look like a goldfish anymore as she says. :rofl

Edit: We posted at the same time. :D

s he still actively swimmming around the tank at times? Is he flipping over?

I think he has two issues, the variety of worm species encysting plus the stunting which is not helping the situation.

Yes he is active any time some one is around in the same room. :)

And he spends any resting time on his back but at the bottom.

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LOL :rofl He is quite the little socialite :D And thats so sweet your Mom is concerned about visiting hours and has grown so fond of him. We all have you know! I do agree, keeping him active will help. The longer a fish is still the more chance of bacteria climbing on board and more problems. Which we do not want. On eof the reasons fish can cope with the thousands of resident bacteria in tanks is that they are constantly moving and flicking them off ......think dust??......hard to settle on a moving object.

Being on the bottom upside down is FAR better than being at the top upside down, does mean you need to keep the area UNDER where he lies spotless. Wipe down the bottom of the tank (his carpet) every day if you can.

Salt sounds good for the spot. It should heal up. Let us know if it gets worse.

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Just want to pop in and say hi and put in some good thoughts for the little Bandita...

Thanks Amy we both appreciate everyone's support. :heart

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Thanks Sarah we appreciate your support. :)

On the subject of that red spot on his side, it doesn't seem to get better.

June 25 I noticed one or two scales sticking out. On the 26th they had fallen but he had a tiny pinprick and it was quite red. I added the salt at 0.01%.

Yesterday it looked like this, which is worse than the day before: (He was eating his gel food that's why it's messy :) )

banditsore.jpg

Today it is even bigger still not that bad but the red is getting bigger, it actually looks like a scratch but it is raised. (Please excuse the poop beside him but I had just woken him up which is why he is so calm)

bandit17-06-10231.jpg

This next one shows how raised it is.

bandit17-06-10249.jpg

My question is do I just wait and see or should I raise the salt to 0.02% since this seems to be getting worse?

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hey edith!

so I have been reading around and I found:

red belly could be advanced bacterial infection in which the bacteria have invaded internal organs... could that be? even if you fed him the Jungle?

I think you should raise the salt - he isn't bothered by it right?

Btw - incase you are still fighting worms, maybe once Bandit's spot is gone and he feels better - I read that 'Levamisole Phosphate' is a very safe and very effective dewormer... you add 0.5PPM to the water - and it doesn't harm your filter.

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Is he bottom sitting Edith? It looks that way in those pics.

Is he sitting for long periods on the bottom rather than "trying to catch his breath because hes floaty" kinda bottom sitting? If he is actually bottom sitting as in "something is brewing" then this is worrisome. We need to decide if that is a worm coming out or if in fact it is a secondary flex infection coming to a head. Or even a secondary fungal infection from antibiotics- common. Whichever it is, if you are comfortable cupping him to the surface and applying either HP or bio-bandage or a PP paste that is where I would start.

Federica, levamisole is actually in the meds Bandit is regularly taking. As food it gets right inside the GI tract and organs where the worms are encysted - water born

levamisole on the other hand is great stuff before worms have encysted and are either freeliving or hatching out around the tank or in gravel. Nothing in the water however is powerful enough to touch deeply encysted worm larvae that are hatching out inside the organs of a fish.

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Is he bottom sitting Edith? It looks that way in those pics.

Is he sitting for long periods on the bottom rather than "trying to catch his breath because hes floaty" kinda bottom sitting? If he is actually bottom sitting as in "something is brewing" then this is worrisome. We need to decide if that is a worm coming out or if in fact it is a secondary flex infection coming to a head. Or even a secondary fungal infection from antibiotics- common. Whichever it is, if you are comfortable cupping him to the surface and applying either HP or bio-bandage or a PP paste that is where I would start.

Not really bottom sitting, Imo. To be able to get the pics without having to put him in a cup I turned his light on suddenly and snapped the pics. That little corner is where he sleeps. I think he doesn't really bottom sit but since his swimming is very erratic recently, he swims in corkscrews a lot, he mostly gets tired. If I do the HP swab, I just use regular hydrogen peroxide that I can get at the pharmacy? I'm nervous about doing it but I'll try later today. I just dip a q tip in some hp and then lightly touch it to the red part of his sore? :scared

If it is a worm coming out is there anything I have to be prepared to do? :(

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hey edith,

any chance it may be a cyst like what rocky was going through? just a thought.. his was popping out like that before it actually popped and i noticed that before it actually reared it's head that it had pushed blood to the surface and two scales had popped out.. he only lost one of them the other one resumed position once the swelling had gone down but he was in qt for 2 and a half months..

i treated with flagyl and prazi and increased salts.. he handled quite well.. you assisted several times, but with all that's happening in life right now, i doubt you have the energy to revert back..

i would also like to say, i am sorry that this has happened ontop of everything else.. i wish i could help somemore, but i don't have the experience, you are in my thoughts constantly.. sending support hugs.

helen

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Thanks Helen. :)

No this doesn't look like a pimple I've dealt with that before but this is different.

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Thank you Federica and Helen for your support it means a lot. :heart

Okay quick update.

I went out to get the hp for the swab, but I couldn't do it. :( He is so small and he was squirming a lot. I ended up having to put him back without swabbing the sore. He was really panicked. I tried again a few hours later but he really doesn't like being held and I'm afraid to hurt him, so on to plan b.

I put him in his holding container and did a 100% wc. Wiped down all the tank surfaces. Rinsed the filter media (in old tank water :) cleaned his river rocks and the silk plant. I refilled his tank and put in salt, it was already at 0.01% I upped it to 0.02%. Put him back in. Closed his light and let him relax. After a while I went to check on him and the swelling and redness looks better, I think. Btw I found one single worm in his tank when I went to check up on him. It was reddish and about 1 mm long, tapered at both ends and smooth, and it was alive.

Here is a picture of Bandit taken a few minutes ago.

bandit17-06-10435.jpg

I will keep a close eye on him to see if anything else comes up but I hope not.

Thanks Imo for helping us through this crisis again, even if I couldn't follow your advice because I was a chicken. :rolleyes: I will try to get him used to being handled a bit so that if this gets worse again then I can try to swab it.

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