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Lizaragon

Confused On Getting New Tank & Extra Fish

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OK, I have small 2 goldfish (1.5-2 inches) in a 10 gallon tank and know I need to upgrade. One of our pet stores is going out of business and I was able to purchase a long 30gallon tank with lid/light and filter for a great price. Only problem is it doesn't fit on my table, so I either need to get a stand or try to return it while I still can. I was thinking about adding another fish or two, so in case one of my fishes die, so they will still have company. Pet store suggested 8 gallons per fish? I also got a med castle decoration with a hollow center, but it is rough on the inside and am now worried it might scratch the fish. I'm also worried about transferring them, and have been reading that it takes about a week to set up the new environment so that good bacteria will develop. I think I am going crazy worrying about these fish, which tank, how many fish etc. and meantime, they are still happily swimming in their 10 gallon home. The pet store says I have been cleaning my tank too frequently (I change out 20-25% of the water weekly and scoop out/rinse out 1/4 to 1/2 of the rocks as well)so I just bought a test kit so I can measure the ammonia and nitrates properly in the next tank. The pet store has a 28 gallon bow tank with a stand I could trade for, but I think the long 30 gallon would give them more swimming range since its longer? Unfortunatly a 40 gallon is out of my price range. I need to act quickly if I am going to trade. We originally got the fish from a friend, who now has 18 same size fish in a 55 gallon tank - and I know they will eventually die. I have suggested to her she give me one or two of her fish, but don't want to overcrowc my new tank, is 4 fish in a 30 too many?? I am open to advice! Thanks.

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First off: Relax! Don't panic! wink.gif

Next up, are your fish single or double tailed goldfish? Double-tailed require 10 gallons each, single-tailed need 20 gallons each. Three double tails would be fine in a 30 gallon. I would get the 28 gallon bowfront and just have two fish personally if I knew it came with a stand and I didn't have space for the 30 gallon. I have a bowfront myself and I love it. The length is more important for single-tails, fancies (double-tailed) tend to be more 'bobbley' in the water than their sleeker faster pond breathren. My 47 gallon bowfront is not much longer than my 24 gallon, only about 10cm longer, but it's a fair bit deeper and a little higher, and the surface area is the important bit. Longer tanks are better than high tanks, but with a bowfront they tend to be longer than high anyway.

You'll have to be really careful with the castle dec, you need to take it out the tank at least once a week when you do water changes and wash it to prevent poisonous gases building up in the hollow spaces - they'll kill your fish! Or you could not use it at all, your call smile.gif

Four fish in a 30 gallon is too much I'm afraid sad.gif

Most important thing, more than the tank in many ways, is filtration. You need a filter big enough to give you 10x your tank volume per hour. You need a filter with 300gph output minimum on a 30 gallon tank. That's usually the pricey bit...if you're tight on cash you might be better off maybe going for a 20-25 gallon tank and a 200-250gph filter. Have a look on Craig's List too, you might find someone's getting rid of a canister or HOB filter cheap in your area!

Also, most important, we love pics here so please share pics of your fish if you can! biggrin.gif

EDIT: It is IMPOSSIBLE to clean your tank too frequently with goldies! You need to be doing 50% water changes a week and vacuuming in all the gravel to prevent waste buildup! You should really be doing more like 50% twice a week as your tank is overstocked :)

Edited by devilduck

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Dd gave you wonderful advice please follow it not what the people at the pet store told you cause they are so very wrong.

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Dd gave you wonderful advice please follow it not what the people at the pet store told you cause they are so very wrong.

Aww thanks Hidr! I feel all happy and fuzzy now! :D:rofl:D

Shakerbird: We've nearly all done the overstocked tanks and the panicked upgrade, I started with one goldie in a 1 gallon tank, then two in a 5 gallon, so you're off to a better start than me ;)

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Wow, thank you all for the kind advice. Hmmm I was hoping 4 would be ok in the 30 gallon. I think I have common goldfish with the single tail. They were originally bought for an outside pond, but starting dying, so were brought inside to a tank. My friend was told to provide 1 gallon of water for each inch of fish, so she gave some of them away in 1 gallon bowls - that is how we got ours. I try not to think of what happened to the fish that were given away. I am leaning towards sticking with the 30 gallon long tank - really its huge. I have a new filter for a 30 gallon tank and could even add the 2nd filter that I'm currently using for the 10. What do you think about 3 fish - is that an odd number? Dont these kind of fish need to be in a community? I've read conflicting information. Pumpkin and Jack (o-lantern) seem really happy! If I can figure out how to post pictures I will.

Edited by Shakerbird

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Three is to many for that small of a tank. You can't even keep two commons in it either. It may seem huge but your fish should already be huge and make that tank look tiny the second they go in it. If they had proper tank and filteration they should be 6 inches are more. If not they are already stunted and need the space to help improve their health. They get up to to a foot long or more so need lots of room. They are are also powerful swimmers and need that space.

The one inch rule works only on tiny fish like guppies.

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The tank is unfortunately too small for two really, so three is not an option with single tails, they can grow to 12 inches not including tails and bigger, they're not small fish. The recommended size is not just for the size of fish, it's also to do with the bioload. The 1" of fish per gallon rule is ok with fish like minnows and tetras, where they are 1" long and slender, but a 1" fish that's round like a golfball has a lot more mass, and thus a lot more mess, than a 1" stick shaped fish.

I would definitely use their current filter as well as the new one, all your beneficial bacteria are in your filter and your gravel, if you don't use your current filter in your new tank you will have to start your ammonia cycle all over again, trust me, it's a nightmare!!! For the sake of a second filter, and you can never have too much filtration, it's not worth the hassle.

Goldfish do not need to be kept in groups, they can be kept quite happily on their own! Some fish, like tetras, minnows and danios are schooling, and goldies do seem to like a pal, but you don't need lots of them, I have two and they hardly have anything to do with each other!

I'd run the 30 or 28 gallon for now, and keep an eye out for a good deal on a bigger tank in the classifieds. People on here always seem to be getting cheap 55 gallons. I'd personally get the 28 gallon with the cabinet just because you're more likely to be able to sell it for more when you do upgrade and that'll help cover the costs of the new tank, and for 2 gallons I think you'd make the money back, others will argue the bigger the better! I'd also look at doing 50% water changes twice a week minimum until you get a bigger tank. Hard work huh?! You better make sure your friend knows what they got you in for!!!

Just to bear in mind - tanks are usually a smaller volume than they say on the box, my 24 gallon is actually a 29 gallon long, I measured the volume of the water not the tank, manufacturers will measure the tank trying to make it look bigger than it is. So for a 40 gallon, if you can find a 45-50 gallon you know you're hitting the right volume smile.gif

If you get a photobucket account, you can upload photos to there and copy either the 'direct link' or the one with the '[ IMG]' brackets around it smile.gif

Best of luck, and please keep us up to date smile.gif

EDIT: Hidr beat me to it, you may have my waffley version anyway rofl3.gif

Edited by devilduck

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And I thought you hated my own waffle version, Sarah.:(

Wonderful advice though.

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It looks like everybody has covered all your questions, so I just want to reinforce what was previously said about the new tank: You can set up a new tank and transfer the fish and filter over to it right away. The old filter will transfer its beneficial bacteria, and can be run alongside a new filter (I've run 4 filters on a 50 gallon tank before). Be sure that the new tank is the same temperature and pH as the old tank, and you can transfer the fish over right away.

I don't know what method you use, but when I am moving fish around, I prefer to scoop them into a plastic bowl rather than use a net, in order to minimize risk to the fish. This requires sticking both arms into the fish tank, and can be fun :)

Good luck, and :welcome

P.S. I find that goldfish of similar sizes tend to school, but fish of noticeably different sizes tend to ignore each other.

Edited by A Penguin

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I just discovered that whole issue of tanks not being their true advertised size. Purchased a tank listed as a 55, got it home, measured the actual inside, (cubic inches x 231 = gallons) and barely got 45 and change!

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And I thought you hated my own waffle version, Sarah.:(

Your waffling is lovely dear, I just can't always be bothered to read it if it's not related to me! (I'm so self-orientated of course :rofl me me me! :D ) I didn't think I waffled too much, until I saw Hidr's 5 line summary :doh11:

Interesting point Penguin about fish sizes and schooling, mine couldn't get much further apart in size so maybe that's why they don't talk, the big kids and the little kids in the playground, Rusty's in the sandpit and Mariko's smoking round the back of the bike sheds! :ignore

Edited by devilduck

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Darn these posts that can't be edited!

That should read: "Cubic inches devided by 231 = gallons."

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You can only edit for a short time after posting. Maybe it's dependent on whether somebody else has read the post? I'm not sure. But it's usually pretty short.

It seems like the tank's advertised volume is based on outside dimensions, and if you filled the tank completely full. Nobody fills the tank COMPLETELY full, that would get messy real quick. I think that I determined that my 50 gallon tank has like 45 gallons in it. Maybe.

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10 minutes I think is the maximum time allotment before the edit button disappears prior to submitting it. Mods and helpers on the other hand can edit anytime they want.

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I don't think you were waffling. I tend to be short and to the point. Get the info out there fast. But some people prefer your type of answer. Long and giving more details. hehe

So this way we have every type of reader covered.

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