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kittyfiends

Help! Angelfish With White Film Over Eye And Body

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Hello,

I have 2 angelfish in a 29 gallon tank. There were 3 and one just died after the cold snap we had here in FL.

I waited a few weeks and I bought 4 more (these are all dime sized).One died immediately, so I took it back to the store.

They said my ph is too High. My PH is a stable 7.5. One by one these fish were dying. Now I'm down to the original 2. I did not quarantine

The new fishes.

Now a week later one of my original fish has a milky white film on his eye and body. The other fish's back tail has shrunk in a little like a fan.

What is this and how do I treat it?

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This does sound like a PH crash to me. Do you regularly test your PH? When have you changed your water last? Can you go to the Disease and Diagnosis area and copy and paste answers to the questions there. This will really help the mods.

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Hi Rita,

Could you please fill this up?

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[*]Water temperature?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

I want to read more details about this. What you posted is very vague and makes it very difficult to pin down the actual issue.

Could you please include some photos as well?

Usually, angelfish such as koi, zebra, marble and gold are quite hardy enough. The likes of blacks, double blacks, blushers and blue though are a little more delicate somewhat. I never had luck keeping double black angels alive for a long period of time. What strains are these?

If these are domestically bred angels, not just any wild scalare or altums, then they should be able to handle a pH range of 6.0-8.5 just fine provided they are acclimated properly. What you need to do here is test first your own tank water, your own tapwater and then your store's water conditions. Test the KH and GH as well on all accounts mentioned. 7.5 is fine. I find it intriguing why they would tell you your pH is high. Something here is not right. Your store may be lowering the pH and also have large discrepancy in hardness levels between your own water and their own water. If this is the case, you'll find it tricky to acclimate them properly. Drip acclimation is the best way to go.

What is your acclimation procedure?

Regardless of what you get, always quarantine your fish. For 2-6 dime-sized angels, a 10g will be fine. Install a HOB filter on it. It'll suffice enough because unlike goldfish, they poop less. You still need to watch them carefully for symptoms. Don't attempt to treat them with salt. Prazi is fine but that's about it a this point. I'd also keep metro and levamisole hydrochloride in hand.

Add the plants as well so they will feel secured enough. They usually get over their nerves very easily in a comfortable environment and can act quite dominant.

I forgot to add ideal temperature is 76-86 degrees Fahrenheit. Do not go lower than that. For the more sensitive varieties, keep the temperature stable at 80-82 degrees.

For food, they are carnivorous by nature so you can feed them flakes, pellets, bloodworms, mosquito larva, flies, daphnia and even gel foods. They'll take just about anything.

Edited by Lupin

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

0

[*]Nitrite Level?

0

[*]Nitrate level?

0

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

7.5

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

8.8

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

API

[*]Water temperature?

Usually 78 to 80 but today I noticed it's down to 73.2

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

29 gallon been running for 6 months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

two top fin 40's I think they run 200GPH

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

40 to 50% water changes weekly

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

2 nickle sized angel fish one is a zebra the other is a golden with some black on the tail.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

Prime. But last water change I only changed out 5 gallons I let the water stand over night and added neutral regulator

only to the new water. It didn't change the Ph at all. It just stayed 7.5 in the tank.

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

I feed flakes, sometimes goldfish flakes sometime nutrofin tropical flakes.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

yes, they all died.

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

no

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

backfin looks funny on the golden. The zebra has a white slime or something on his body and one eye.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,

No they are hungry. But a little shy.

This is a planted tank. I have amazon swords, red Luwiga,and some crypts. There are also a few mystery snails in there that must have came with the plants.

I don't have prazi, but i have pazi pro.

The store does reverse osmosis on their water and makes their water ph7.

I'll see if i can get some pictures.

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I did a water change today and added the prazi pro. I also turned the heater on. The golden looks okay the marble, not so much. He is top hanging as the others did before they expired :(

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While angelfish like low ph they do just fine in 7.5. Mine is 7.4. However if you want to lower the ph you can do this by adding driftwood. It well take a couple weeks but it can lower it.

Did you acculmate them slowly to the new tank? Takes me about 2 hours of adding small amounts of water to a pitcher with fish in it and old water. I then move them to tank but without any of the water from picture.

Also sounds like fungus this can be treated gently and simply with salt. No meds are needed. However the other wont hurt if you have already started that for treatment finish it. Then if you still have some do the salt. But not together I dont know enough about meds to know if those can be mixed. (I usally treat with salt only once little over a year ago did I have to use meds.)

Also angelfish don't usally work in groups unless they are all females and at least 55 gallons of tank space. A pair is about all you can keep in that tank. So I would not try any more angels(if this is a pair) till these are gone. If your not planing to breed you can add some tetras in or some cories. If you plan to breed you need to go bare bottom with a couple peices of slat and no other fish. If you don't know if this is a pair I would add some 2 more about the same size like I suggested but after they are no long ill. Then keep one pair rehome or start anouther tank for the other two.

I just love my angelfish so graceful. I wish you luck with the pair you have.

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I surmised as much something was off here.:( They did not need RO water for domestic angels. These guys seem misinformed of the fact angels are more tolerant to pH ranges than they think.

How did you acclimate them? Your best bet is either push through the drip acclimation or switch to another LFS at all and make sure the water conditions match with yours.

I'm sorry for the delay of response. I tend to forget some threads I posted in.

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Well he died :'( I have just the one left all by his/herself. This one looks like it just has a little fin rot on the edges of the fins.

I put the prazi pro in yesterday. I will do another water change on Friday. Should I add salt? Or just plain water changes?

How do I do this drip system you speak of? I have always just acclimated by letting the bag float for 15 min, then adding some of the

tank water every 5 minutes for another half hour, and just let them go.

I'm going to try to grow my own bacterias in a 10 gallon tank. When it's ready i guess I will get this fish a friend and quarantine it for a month.

Until then this fish will be lonesome.

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As far as I know prazi if for internal problems. I would stop that treatment and do salt for the fin rot. According to the directions on the box.

What I do is not a drip system I don't have the stuff for that. I use a large water pitcher or large bowl. Only use enough of the LPS water to cover the fish so they can swim. Then I dip some water(about half a measuring cup) from the tank they are going in into the bowl. I do this every 15 minutes removing water from the bowl as needed. When I feel there is no water left in the bowl but my tank water (about 2 to 3 hours does it) Then I remove fish from bowl and put in tank. Do not put any of the water from the bowl in the tank at all. Just in case some of the LPS water is still in it. This works for me I have lost very very few new fish.

However you need to make sure they are the same size as the one you got and wait about a month or two after fish is well. Or better yet set up a QT tank/tub. Otherwise you may make the one you have sick again.

BTW they do just fine as a single fish. Bully(my angelfish 1.6 years old) lives in the 30 gallon with no other angelfish and is happy as a clam. Tries to eat every angel I had with him so gave up on it.

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So you don't think I should continue with the fluke treatment? Most of the fish that died didn't look like anything was wrong with them.

I read that they do well in groups of 5 or more. When they get bigger I was going to put them in the 55 gallon and put the 2 goldfish in the 29.

This fish got along well with the other two that I originally had. I'm not sure if they were a pair. They were size of dimes when I bought them. This one is somewhere between a nickle and a quarter. Very pretty.

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No they do not do well in large groups unless you get lucky and get all females. They are cichlids. They are aggressive fish. Just like all cichlids. They are less aggressive with other kinds of fish then they are their own kind however.

I had 7 when I started. Bully starting to fight with them all. Some angels are just that mean. I tried to add mates at first but gave up quickly when he killed a couple.

I would start thm off in the 55 and not get anymore till your one is completely well and you have moved them. You might get lucky and get a pair or two that well not kill each other that way.

Or better yet be happy with the one you have add a few tank mates and watch him grow.

But lets not take my word for it. This is a great but slow forum with info about angelfish that might help you.

http://www.theangelfishforum.com/?sid=161b39a3d079b128277ab2e3e3825a7c

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Sorry about delay of my response as I had to attend to my dad's hospital needs.

The reason I suggested prazi before is I had considered some factors that would have needed prazi but I suspected something else is really off here and as I had feared, it was how your petstore managed their fish. RO water is not necessary with domestically bred angelfish. The fact they told you they needed the pH 7.0 to be more precise because they think it is required for all angels, made me strongly suspect they may have done something to the water which led to the death of your angels albeit the large discrepancy in hardness levels. If your store had used RO water, chances are good the hardness levels are nearly 0 or below 4 ppm. If your tap water itself is on the opposite end, obviously the resulting effect when they are transferred without acclimating them properly is osmotic shock. This is what killed your other angelfish. You have to hope against all odds that your last angelfish will survive.

How is the angelfish right now?

For drip acclimation in case you attempt to buy fish from the same store, be prepared by reading this. If I were you, the easiest way to avoid this is buy your own fish from other stores whose water conditions are closely matched to yours and not anywhere else that involve RO water when it in itself is quite unnecessary especially for domestically bred specimens.

http://www.reefnut.com/Acclimation%20Article.htm

Hidr explained everything correctly.

Cichlids are by far one of the most intelligent fish. They have unique personalities and can be rather skittish to become unusually belligerent. Angelfish are no exception to this at all.

Luckily, angelfish can be kept just fine alone, in breeding pair or in groups. You will find that your next challenge if you manage to keep this angelfish alive, is it will grow to become quite dominant and will only terrorize new angels it will consider as intruders. Remedying this is done by introducing the new fish with lights off, rearrangement of decorations or remove the current occupant to another tank and let the new ones establish themselves to balance everything out. This is a trial and error perspective so you'll have to keep trying until you can get your perfect community without them bickering constantly.

Angelfish are quite fast growers. Most strains such as marble and gold can become sexually matured by 7 months so if you have more than one angelfish, be prepared if they spawn. Others like blushers may take at least a year before they become sexually matured. In a small tank, you won't have much choice because they will eventually terrorize everyone else to death as they prepare their spawning site.

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