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A Bit Of A Shock..


Nymphae

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Yesterday morning I had a bit of a shock. My wing tail goldfish had laid eggs!

I was very surprised, since I heard it's very rare for these fish to breed in captivity.

Let alone in a tank the size I'm using (which was 'okay' according to the pet shop clerk, but now they've grown I'm not so sure..).

So right now I'm pretty much clueless as to what to do. Anyone got any ideas?

Edited by Nymphae
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Welcome to Koko's!

Imo is right. The eggs need to be fertilized first by a male.

I've never heard of "wing tail". What is this? Fringetail, tosakin tail, broadtail, ribbontail, short tail...I could go on but these ones are what I already knew, just not the wing tail.unsure.gif

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Welcome to Koko's!

Imo is right. The eggs need to be fertilized first by a male.

I've never heard of "wing tail". What is this? Fringetail, tosakin tail, broadtail, ribbontail, short tail...I could go on but these ones are what I already knew, just not the wing tail.unsure.gif

Yes, I have a male who has fertilized them. (He has a bit of a different shape than the other one > thinner, and I've noticed him pushing his nose near the tail of the other one, which is typical male behaviour, at least that's what I heard..)

As for the name..

Maybe you can tell from this picture? It's not mine, but resembles the female in colour and fins.

Red_Cap_sluierstaartgoudvis.jpg

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That's called a red cap oranda - nice fish :D

Have you moved the eggs to another tank yet? Have any hatched yet? There is a link in my signature Called "my fry journal' where I recorded the first two weeks of raising one batch of fry. It may help you because it covers the details of what you are going to need and what to expect next..

You are in the right place here, many members have raised goldfish fry and there is a whole forum on questions and breeding issues here:

http://www.kokosgold...dfish-breeding/

:Congrats:

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Eek! Another oranda keeper here! Nice to meet you, my lady.Flowers.gif I'm a kiss up for orandas, see??? They're my weakness.yikes.gif

Congrats congrats!rockwoot.gif

I'm so fortunate my own oranda eggs took only 2 days to hatch. Infertile eggs should look white whereas fertile ones should remain transparent with two dots (eyes actually).

Hope to see plenty more updates.post-4056-1113060347.gif

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Neither of the eggs have hatched yet. Then again they're just barely 2 days old and I read it could take up to 4 days.

Also, I'm afraid to move the eggs, I'm worried I might damage them. So instead I moved the fish to a different 'tank'. .. Which basically is a green plastic rectangular bucket I usually use to hold them in while I'm cleaning the tank. I'm trying to arrange a 'proper' place for them to stay as soon as possible, though they seem to be alright for now. Just peacefully resting on the bottom.

It's probably going to be extremely difficult to raise them though. My current 'tank' is no more than a rectangular fish bowl, no extra heating or anything to keep the water clean. (Aside from refreshing the water 2 times a week.)

That's one of the reasons I was so surprised to see any eggs at all. (I mean, you have to admit it IS a poor place to raise baby fish.. :( )

However, I'll be reading everything you guys throw at me and do my best to take care of my fish.

Edited by Nymphae
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I can see what you mean if you were referring to eggs stuck on glass and other immovable decors. Eggs are so adhesive. It is for this reason a lot of breeders try either options: remove the parents to allow the eggs to hatch without being eaten OR encourage the parents to spawn on spawning mops or bushy plants. I used the latter throwing water lettuce, a ball of yarn and spawning mop into the tank. My blue orandas spawned on them while most eggs fell to the glass bottom.

There is one stipulation here if you wish to proceed hatching the eggs before any of them begin to develop well. You need to make sure you can accommodate a large number of fry. I was facing this dilemma myself because my own blue orandas gave me 700+ eggs (a very good estimate ). Eventually, I made up my mind to get only less than 100 but I ended up with over 200 fry as I overlooked several more eggs tucked deep into the roots.

Since spawning involves cloudy water, I would recommend doing a large water change right now as water quickly fouls up as a result of infertile eggs and milt released by the parents after their spawning ritual is over.

On an unrelated note, I'll try to see how I can help you improve your upkeep on these wonderful goldfish. This is going to be a long one so please bear with me!

Firstly, we now know we are dealing with orandas. Is that correct? Orandas need 10g per fish although in general, the more space you have, the better for them. A 30g is personally the minimum I would recommend. Orandas are one of the largest variants rivalling ryukins, ranchus, lionheads, regular telescopes and fantails. Currently, my largest oranda is 10" with a bulk width of almost 4". That's already very bulky which implies a fishbowl is out of the question REGARDLESS of what variety you keep.

If room temperature in your area drops quickly below 70 degrees Fahrenheit, then consider investing in a heater to keep temperature consistent for your goldfish. Fancies in general prefer their temperature a tad warmer than singletails. 72-78 degrees is quite appropriate for orandas.

For filtration, I'd aim for 10x turnover rate. A canister filter is your best bet although you may use hang-on-back (HOB) filters. Assuming you aim for a 30g tank, then I'd suggest aiming for a filter that has turnover rate of 300gph or more. One can never overfilter too much. Just make sure the strong output flow is diverted upward for surface movements to promote aeration or use a spraybar. Fancy goldfish are quite intolerant of the currents. They're not built to be able to swim properly against the currents. Remember when you clean your filter media, just swish it using old tank water to reduce the amount of dirt clogging the filter.

When you perform water changes, remember you have to vacuum the substrate thoroughly to remove all the organic matter accummulating which can otherwise sicken your fish if left alone since decaying matter serves as breeding grounds for nasty bacteria and parasites. Do NOT remove your fish when you do water changes. Change only a portion of the water (at least 50% weekly if possible but it depends on your water parameters as well) and replace with new one. Don't forget the dechlorinator as chlorine and chloramine can kill your fish.

If you don't have a test kit, please try investing in API liquid test kits. Test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. Are you familiar of the nitrogen cycle? You want to make sure both ammonia and nitrite must remain at zero at all times as both are toxic substances. Avoid using test strips since these are grossly inaccurate. For dechlorinator, I'd suggest using Prime by Seachem. It's the best dechlorinator available out there binding chlorine and chloramine, both harmful substances towards the fish and beneficial bacteria.

Hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask.exactly.gif

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Still no movement! I'm starting to suspect they're either waiting for the very last day in which they could hatch, or they're all dead..

A gut feeling tells me the latter one, but I'll wait..

I did some water refreshing, maybe that'll help?

Edited by Nymphae
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Hmmm..How do the eggs look, hun?

Infertile eggs should be totally white but if you don't remove them, they quickly foul up the water. Have you noticed any eggs with two black dots and a curled spine? That's the fry developing there.

Edit: Yes, a water change ALWAYS helps.

Edited by Lupin
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A few are completely white like you said, but most are almost completely seethrough with a white little 'something' in them.

I can't really make out eyes or anything (unless they're more like gray than black dots).. I haven't seen any sort of development at all..

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I just spotted a couple of eggs, that look a really light shade of green, with some tiny black speckles in them..

I was just about to clean the bowl out, because I didn't think any'd hatch anymore, but now I'm not sure anymore.

What's the maximum time it takes for an oranda egg to hatch? Could anyone tell me? (I thought it was 2 to 4 days, but maybe it's longer sometimes?)

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Hurray! I looked into the bowl this morning and counted 2 of the tiniest fish I've ever seen! Later today, I counted 5 and still see some possible fertile eggs! :D Guess it was a good choice to wait a little longer, or I would have done major fish abortion! O.o;

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In general, it is best not to give up until either they all develop fungus or at least 7 days have gone by. Depending on temperature, it can take up to a week. I find it better to keep the temps low enough that the little fry take at least 3-4 days to develop. In my opinion, you get bigger, stronger and more numerous fry that way.

A well-primed adult fish will average about 2000-3000 eggs and fry. It is perfectly normal to have upwards of 5000-6000 in a carefully prepped fish. I am sure that if you are seeing 5, you probably have at least 20.

NOW is the time to plan for feeding and water changing! Good luck! FUN! :)

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No eggs have hatched since yesterday. I also can't spot any fertile eggs anymore (they're all white, most even have moldy white threads). The ones that have hatched, have been moved to a better and a lot cleaner bowl. I've also purchased special food for them.

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Just 5.. but I'm very happy with them! :D

I have a feeling they're all going to survive. They are all active, no strange shapes (like a pyramid or something O.o;;).. Of course that's still up to mother nature to decide..

Edited by Nymphae
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Woohoo! Just saw this thread! I am so happy for you!

You will definitely need to get a filter and "cycle" going on the fry tank. Ammonia will wreck havoc on your little ones!

Can't wait to see pictures.......**hint, hint** ;)

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