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Oh No!


Sakura

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Anyone know what's wrong with her?

http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/uu305/miss_cherry_blossom/?action=view&current=MVI_4377.flv

http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/uu305/miss_cherry_blossom/?action=view&current=MVI_4381.flv

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 0

pH: about 7.6

temp: 76

When I dosed her with Prazi, it turns out I had a small amount of carbon in one of the three filters that I didn't know about. But I'm hoping that she still received some of the Prazi anyways, since I was re-dosing it every day. The last dose I did, I removed the carbon so she got at least one full good dose without carbon. :doh11: Besides, Steve said that when they did the scrape she was fluke-free, although it's not a fool proof procedure or anything. I guess there's always a possibility that somehow some of my equipment wasn't cleaned thoroughly and there were still fluke eggs on something from previously. I really bleached the heck out of everything though, so I kind of doubt that. I recently added a moss ball, but it had been quarantined and dipped in a bleach solution twice, then soaked in dechlorinated water. Is it possible that some bleach got into the tank (even with all the careful de-chlorinating) and that she's being poisoned?!

I don't know what is going on, so to try and eliminate all possible irritants I decided to try Daryl's advice and start the cycle in a separate body of water. It's only going to work if I can find pure ammonia somewhere though, and so far I have had no luck. I added zeolite to her filter (HOT 250) and it is not absorbing ammonia at all. Why?! I rinsed it well before use, and it's brand new zeolite.

Sorry... this is just so frustrating. Couldn't sleep last night because I was so worried she'd be dead in the morning.

Edit: forgot to add, her water is changed 100% every day. I've noticed that the ammonia climbs to 0.25 easily within the span of 24 hours, so daily water changes have been necessary. Not showing any nitrites yet.

Edited by Sakura
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Good news: I finally found some pure ammonia! It was at Ace hardware as another member on here suggested. It was the only place out of about 6 different stores that I could find it. :o It's "janitorial strength" and I'm really scared to use it! Has major warning labels all over it! Good thing my hubby is in town this weekend... I think he'll be handling this stuff :rofl

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OK, I'll throw in my two cents. After viewing your videos I noticed that it seems that she definitely is breathing in a labored fashion. The water changes are great however the daily ammonia spike is a big problem. Zero nitrates means that there are no BB present to eliminate the ammonia. It sounds similar to what I experienced with my goldfish tank, and I used Nutrafin Cycle at the recommendation of my LFS. Three small doses in three days brought my ammonia levels to a fixed zero reading and brought up my nitrates to 10-20 ppm. Any ammonia and nitrites in the water will certainly have a negative effect upon any fish. I noticed a big difference in my fish once I got the ammonia to zero reading. They are now much more active. I also noticed your temperature is at 76 degrees, I keep mine no higher than 72 degrees in the winter. IMO goldfish are a cold water fish, thus 70-72 degrees would be the best temperature as warmer water IMO will hold less oxygen. Do you have a bubble wand or strip running to help oxygenate the water? Hanging at the surface and gulping air is a sign of adverse water conditions or poor oxygen levels. Hope this may be of some help to you.

-Dennis

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Dennis, all the points you make are true and I am very aware of all those things. I appreciate your concern for sure! It seems like you're not familiar with my situation though, so I'll clarify a bit :)

I was cycling the tank with the fish in it, because I couldn't find the right kind of ammonia in time. Now however, I have now found the ammonia so I'm going to keep her water clean with zeolite and start the cycle in a plastic tub. One problem though, is that the zeolite doesn't seem to be working, and I don't know why...? I was told my Trinket that 0.25 is an okay level for ammonia if you are cycling the tank. But I decided to try the zeolite in case the ammonia might be bothering her.

There are a lot of opinions about temperature for goldfish, but I think that 76 is just fine. I used to work at Pet*smart and we kept the goldfish tanks at a steady 80-82 degrees, which is high! The goldfish were always happy and active though. Personally I think anywhere within the 70-78 range is just fine for goldfish. I have lots of filters agitating the water surface and also a nice big bubble wand.

Basically I'm fairly sure that I've covered all the basics, but she's still having issues, so I want to see if there's anything more serious that maybe I'm missing. :idont I'm stumped.

Oh and I'd just like to add that I did try Nutrafin Cycle (according to the directions on the bottle) when I first got her, and it didn't do anything. The thing with that is it's supposed to be live bacteria, but it's not refrigerated and who knows how long it's been sitting on the shelves, so it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. You also have to give it time to attach to surfaces, and mine maybe didn't have time because I had to do daily huge water changes.

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To help with your cycle, I recommend ordering Tetra SafeStart from Drs. Foster and Smith (depending on where you live, you may want to get faster shipping so it doesn't get frozen!)

I bought some when I started out from my LFS and it didn't work at all (I was doing a fishless cycle but wanted it to be sped up a little.) After I had bought it, I noticed it was close to expiration though, so I decided to order from Drs. F & S instead and try again. It came in a cold pack (it was November, not too cold but they obviously keep it refrigerated, which I've heard is better for it!)

Anyway, this time it was AMAZING! I had nitrates within a few days, and it cycled not long after that -- probably around 10 days total. No problems in the following weeks either. It is by no means instant, but it certainly gives the cycle a little boost, and I think it is a better formula than anything else out there. (Supposedly, I've heard that some of the other stuff isn't really aquatic bacteria, so you have to keep adding it forever in order for it to work because the bacteria only survives for a short time in the water. The Tetra SafeStart is supposedly true aquatic bacteria.)

Just wanted to let you know my experience and what worked for me. Good luck with everything!! :D:D:D

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Thanks I think I have the cycle stuff under control, but I need help from a moderator or something, because I think there's something wrong with my fish.

Oh okay, you were just mentioning things about your cycle and using products so just trying to help...

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Yes, thanks I do appreciate your concern :)

I just talked to Steve from Rain Garden, and he advised me to try a salt treatment. He thinks it may be something parasitic because her slime coat is coming off in sheets. He did say though that he's basically just guessing because it's so hard to diagnose a problem over the phone. I really hope this helps. :heart Only bad thing is now I can't use the zeolite! Gahh... lol

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What are the behavioral patterns of the fish currently, Sakura? I'd need to run this in. Still peeling off slimecoat? Can't open videos in office pc.

The temperature at 76 degrees is fine. Ideal range for fancies is 72-78 degrees.

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She does look awfully listless in the video and like she is having a hard time controlling her swimming...I lean towards something parastic as well. Have you kept everything absolutely seperate from her and your main tank?

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Lupin- It's tough to describe, but I'll try. Yesterday she was swimming with head down and tail up (I think that's called headstanding?). I just seemed like she was unable to control her swimming and that's why she was doing that. She's been doing a lot of gasping, both at the surface and also just in the water. She has a hard time controlling her swimming, and gets pushed around by my HOT 250 filter. I could try replacing it with my aquaclear 500, but I don't think that will be any better. I finally just put her in a mesh breeder/isolation box so she can rest. Today she's been in the box all day and sits on the bottom 100% of the time, except when I come near the tank she begs for food at the surface. Her slimecoat is coming off in chunks, and I saw a few bits of it floating on the surface of the water after it had fallen off her body. I noticed a different yellow sheen over her body yesterday, but I'm not sure if this is normal or not, since she does have some slight yellow tint naturally on her head and tail. But this yellow struck me as different than normal for her. So I'm a little worried about velvet in the back of my mind, but I do know that is rare. At least Prazi and salt should knock out any parasites though, right?

AmyN- I disinfected all equipment with bleach (or bought new stuff) before using it for this fish. I have tried to keep everything very separate between this tank and my others. I did slip up once when I used a clear holding container that hadn't been sanitized. It was totally dry and hadn't been used in about a week though. I don't know if that could have contaminated her tank with anything, but I sure hope not.

She's been through a Prazi treatment, but I just realized that I had carbon in one filter the whole time. :doh11: I think some Prazi still had an effect though, because I had been re-dosing the full amount each day with a 100% water change. Since realizing my mistake though, I have dosed Prazi twice without carbon in to make sure it works. Currently, there's salt (.1% or .01% can never remember which is correct!) and Prazi in her tank. I just checked on her, and she's still just sitting on the bottom of the breeder box not moving at all except her eyes. There are a few patches of slimecoat coming off.

Am I doing anything wrong? I feel like such a terrible fish-keeper but I'm trying very hard to do things right.

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Don't feel bad, Sakura. You're trying well.

Yes, it's headstanding. Did you point the flashlight on the sheen to confirm further velvet? Sounds parasitic to me too. Has she scratched too?

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I have not noticed any scratching or flashing, no. Just lots of gulping, headstanding, "lazy" or uncontrolled swimming, and bottom sitting.

Let me go try the flashlight thing... Okay, it seems like there is a yellow colored sheen to her body. It seems more concentrated in certain areas. With this fish it's just so hard to tell if it's velvet or her normal coloring, because she does have some yellow color normally too. I wonder if it could be the over-accumulation of slimecoat on her body that is giving the yellow coated look?

Maybe a description of what I'm looking for (if it is velvet) would help?

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Thanks for the link. It doesn't seem like she has that, because there hasn't been any flashing, but I can't say for sure. Yikes I just read that salt isn't effective on velvet, is this true? Because I was thinking it's okay that I don't know what it is, as long as I do salt and prazi everything should be taken care of. But maybe that's not true?

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Yes, and it was hard to tell. :unsure: I'm uploading a video of me shining a flashlight on her as we speak. I know you won't be able to see it at work, but maybe when you get home you can? I also don't know how well real-life colors will show up on the video, but I just thought it was worth a try. It will be a little bit because videos take forever to upload to photobucket! hehe

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:yikes So I checked on my fish this morning, and she has dropsy! This is horrible. She's still bottom sitting, and I haven't looked at her under a bright light yet, so I don't know if her slimecoat is still peeling off or not. But I'm doing a full water change at the moment. I've been really good at doing a water change every single day, but yesterday I missed it because I was gone from 9am-10pm and by the time I got home I was just so exhausted. I did a dose of Prime to detoxify for the moment and was going to resume my water changes today. So my question is, do you think this dropsy is just water quality related? I will get parameters up in a bit. Can dropsy even be water quality related? Can dropsy be caused by parasites alone? Or is it probably bacterial? I am leaning towards bacterial and I'm fully prepared to start her on a round of MetroPlus.

Can anyone help?

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Oh, no! Order Metro Meds right away if you can. Heat and epsom salt, not regular salt. And another water change to get rid of ammonia. I didn't reply before because I don't have much good advice, but this looks pretty urgent. I am so sorry...you have been working so hard and doing such a good job...so frustrating!

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