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Help - Sick Goldfish


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Hi,

I have 4 goldfish in a 40 gallon aquarium. I had 5 but one died last week of internal parasites (i think hole in the head :o).

My nitrites are good and PH, ammonia and temperature are good too. I do 20-30% water change weekly and have a jbl i200 internal filter as well as an air stone (and also some plants).

Today I noticed that one of my small telescope has his scales sticking out. Could this be dropsy? My other 3 fish have long transparent stringy poo. I am currently treating the aquarium with an antibiotic called BAKTOPUR DIRECT (from Sera). It is supposed to be against int.&ext. parasites. Will this help? What else would you suggest?

I stopped feeding the fish yesterday and will continue with this diet for 3 days and then start slowly with peas.

Until now they were all eating well and acting normal (their fins were up too). Could they really be sick?

Thx in advance,

C. F. G.

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First off Welcome to Koko's :)

I am sorry your fish are not feeling well :(

I am in no way an expert so I will not offer you any advise,except a large water change would not hurt!!!Scales sticking out I believe is a sign of Dropsy :( But again I am not an expert,I do know I just went through a bout of Pop Eye with one of my goldfish and fresh clean water is key, Please hang in there a mod should be by soon with some advise :)

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Sorry to hear you lost a fish and that the rest are doing poorly. Before we can advise you on what's wrong with your fish we need to know the answers to the questions in the box above. We need exact numbers for your ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and ph. :testkit:

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hi,

okey so-

[*]Ammonia Level?

0

[*]Nitrite Level?

0,025mg/l

[*]Nitrate level?

dont know

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

PH8, KH4.4, GH6.5

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

same as tank

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

JBL drops for nitrite and ammonia and strips for pH etc

[*]Water temperature?

73

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

40gallons - running for 4months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

JBL cristalprofi 200 (with 3 spong spaces and one with active carbon (unless we have meds inside))

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

once a week 20-30 percent with syphoning of gravel

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

4 goldfish: 1 large telescope (4inches), 1 large oranda (3inches), 1 small black moor (1-1.5inches) and a small crown pearlscale (1inch)

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

SERA BIO nitrivec and Easylife (not sure if these are only European brands)

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

twice a day JBL goldpearls with vitamines added in the mornings (always moist) and twice a week spirulina and terta krill

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

last one about a month ago

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

last week Omnipur from SERA- broad range treatment for mouth rot (thought my large telescope had it), fungus, external parasites, fin rot etc (not interior parasites). TODAY (after large water change and 2 days of active carbon filtration) antibiotic from SERA - BAKTOPUR DIRECT -treatment for external and internal bacteria (is this correct against internal parasites such as hexamita or what could be causing the dropsy???) could the fish have caught what had caused the other fish to die - it died with a few 'holes' in its face and long stringy poop - so we assumed it was hexamita. the 4 fish left dont ALWAYS have the stringy transparent or air-filled poo - it varies...

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

doesnt seem there is anything new - just the white spots (could be fungus) on the large telescope's mouth which wasn't treated with antifungus/mouth rot meds - so imthinking it might be from cleaning gravel - he has always had it.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

eating fine, maybe slightly less active. small telescope (thought to have dropsy - stays more towards the top) but he eats - until i stopped feeding them yesterday

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hi again. after doing some research i figured i would try and get some MetroMed or Metronidazole for them. it seems VERY hard to find them in switzerland (!!!!!!!!) (:o) any suggestions??? i thought that that would be the best thing incase it's Dropsy AND/OR Hexamita. i will try and get some Epson salts asap - that should help? for now the antibiotic they have in is - 'nifurpirinol'. not sure it also works for hexamita - it just says it is 'broad range antibiotic againt internal and external bacteria'

for now the 4 fish seem okey. no more stringy transparent poop - just a couple normal ones. the small telescope with the strange 'sticking out' scales is quite active - doesnt seem sick if it wasn't for the scale issue - and possible bloated stomach (could it be an early enough case of dropsy?) oh and it also seems like he could be loosing his slime-coat in strings - not 100percent sure about it... :s

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HELP!!! this is getting crazy! so this morning i get up and realize the tank water has turned a light shade of green (could this be from the antibiotics? it wasnt like this yesterday). i did some water tests and the ammonia is still 0, nitrites are up to 0,05 but its still okey right? (the meds said they would ruin the tank cycle)..... sigh....... the telescope with the dropsy doesnt seem to care less of his problem - his scales havent changed - but he is happily swimming around begging for food - should i feed them??? i wanted to fast them till tomorrow - especially now that the good bacteria is being killed...

HOWEVER my poor little pearscale has been BULLIED!!! she has a few scales hanging off her and one of her back pelvic fins has been RIPPED up - so much that a big chunk is missing from the front half part - the part closest to the body!!! :o:o:o !!! the bigger fish kept picking her so i decided to move her to my 'hospital tank' (are they doing this cause they are hungry???) - she seems quite happy but is swimming slightly with her head down... i didnt add any meds in there for now - just very clean water+the filter.

WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW??? as it's sunday in switzerland EVERYTHING is closed so there isnt much i can do/buy for them...

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First I would recomend larger weekly water changes. 30 to 50% and at least once a month 75 to 85%. Also don't forget to rinse your filter media out once a month.

Some medicated foods might help the one wish dropsy. No idea what is available in your area.

As for the one getting beat up would add some aquarium salt to help her heal. Maybe after it heals you can put back in main tank. If they keep bulling her you may have to rehome her.

As long as they seem to be sick I would do even more and larger water changes. Maybe every 3 days more if you can handle it.

I believe there are things in the water we just can't/don't test for and I have found if my fish seem to be "down" an extra water change or two fixes the problem.

Good luck

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Welcome to Koko's!

I've used Sera Baktopur Direct before. I do know the liquid form can cause your water to turn green. The tablet form..I can't remember what color it stained the water but it stained my skin yellow. I shouldn't have handled it with bare hands anyway. My own fault.

Follow what Hidr suggested to you. A large water change is important at this point until your nitrite returns to zero. Could you please get a test kit for your nitrate? Nitrate is relevant, not just ammonia and nitrite.

With regards to the treatments you used, we need to review first what ingredients they have.

For Sera Omnipur, could you please list down the ingredients it has? I don't have the list of ingredients anymore.

For Sera Baktopur (liquid form), it contains acriflavine, methylene blue, phenylglycol and aqua purificata ad. The active ingredients are harsh to your beneficial bacteria so please exercise caution in dosing this stuff. It's a tad too strong even for some tropicals in my experience.

When you treat, I suggest that you do not combine two different antibiotics unless otherwise required. It's highly dangerous to your beneficial bacteria and cause your cycle to crash if you are not careful. Some antibiotics can cause chemical reactions that could be fatal to your goldfish.

Some new questions here...

Did you quarantine your last new fish? If so, how long?

Were all fish treated with anything else PRIOR to this situation? If so, what treatments were used?

How thick is your gravel?

Is the tank planted?

When the fish died, are you sure the holes in its face were not perpetrated by its other tankmates? How deep were the holes? Did the holes look scattered around the face and seem to be bleeding (red/white edges around the circle)?

If your gravel is thick and it is not planted, I would suggest reducing the gravel to at least an inch. Try to gradually remove the gravel. Thick gravel can serve as a bed for dangerous parasites and bacteria and it makes it more difficult for us to vacuum possible cysts and bad bacteria latching on them. Besides, thick substrate can encourage anaerobic bacteria to form and when disturbed, they can release hydrogen sulfide, a nitrogen gas that can sicken your fish. Nitrogen gas contributes to fraying of fins, crashing of water conditions, dropsy and plenty other health issues.

Do not feed your telescope at this time. Scale protrusion can also be caused by constipation (appearing more bloated than usual to be more precise and failing to expel poop) especially if it extends the abdominal area to its limit. I've had this happen with my Siamese doll goldfish before when I calculated her food intake wrongly and went a bit overboard about it. The scales went back to normal when she thinned a bit after being fasted for a day. Since you plan to fast the fish for 3 days, this might hopefully work. Do a water change first as suggested by Hidr and treat with epsom salt by 1/8 to 1/2 teaspoon per 10g. If you have access to metronidazole, you may use it. I use one Flagyl tablet per 20g as the dosage. Metro can treat for hexamit, internal parasites.

As for the pearlscale, I'd keep her separated as well. If she gets bullied again, I'd have to rehome her instead if I were in this situation. Keep clean water and aquarium salt as suggested for now. It doesn't need antibiotics at this point unless it shows health issues (not counting obvious injuries).

I am not entirely sure of your quarantine regimen so perhaps, let's assume if the fish were never treated with salt and prazi before, chances are good your fish will still be carrying ectoparasites particularly the dangerous flukes. We'll resolve this one once we address the current issues. Just wanted to point this out in case it gets overlooked.

Hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Edited by Lupin
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thanx for all your help!

i have the tablet baktopur 'direct' - my thumb is indeed yellow - so is the tank! as composition it only says Nifurpirinol 27.6 and binding agent - it seems a very pure version. the man at the store warned me that it was very strong - and that i cannot re-use it before 6months. I cannot do any water change for another 2 days as the meds are in - then i will do a BIG water change and put in some active carbon to clean out the meds - will the fish be clear of the interior parasites with one round? i put 3 tabs that i crushed in the aquarium as it said 1 per every 50 liter and i have 150lt.

i usually take out about 50liters from my 150 once a week - sometimes when i see the gravel is letting out more dirt then usual i do an extra bucket - so 65... i have been keeping the filter clean - rinsing it in the syphoned out aquarium water... :ill

sorry i don't have the nitrate tester :(

the OMNIPUR i have is sera 'pond' - but i was assured it worked just as well for aquariums (right?) ingredients: active substances in 100ml: amino acridine hydrochloride 105mg, acriflavine chloride 600mg, ethacridine lactate 3,375mg, malachite green oxalate 79mg. - i think that however it should be all out of the aquarium by now as i filtered it for a few days with active carbon before putting in the Baktopur...

Some new questions here...

Did you quarantine your last new fish?

NOOOOOO :o i realize now that that was BAD! but my hospital tank wasn't cycled yet... I'm new at goldfish keeping so... but i dont think he brought the sicknesses - he is still the most healthy looking one!

Were all fish treated with anything else PRIOR to this situation?

not really... some salt once in a while - it mostly started a few weeks ago with the hole in the head issue - but we treated the fish (now dead) in the hospital tank... which was probably wrong as she had probably already infected the main tank...

How thick is your gravel?

about 1inch from the black plastic I can see - maybe 2 total? i am planning to change it all in 1-2 months... the gravel pieces are quite large - but small enough for the larger goldfish to put it in their mouths...

Is the tank planted?

not planted perse but it has 4 healthy live plants in it.

should i remove gravel? i dont really want an empty tank... would thinner gravel or sand help to keep it cleaner? that is what i have in my turtle tank - and that is seemingly easier to clean with syphon... or should i put the plant substrante and actually plant some plants?

When the fish died, are you sure the holes in its face were not perpetrated by its other tankmates? How deep were the holes? Did the holes look scattered around the face and seem to be bleeding (red/white edges around the circle)?

thats what the man at the store said when we showed him the fish... but he also claimed she was healthy - as if! the holes were pretty deep with red center... she had 2 or 3 on her face and a few on her body - some same and one was infected spot type - fugus? she was pretty messed up when she died - also floated the last day - not able to swim anymore... she had also been loosing color for the last few weeks - she used to be red and clack and died more of a orange and light grey...

i will keep fasting the fish. they have all stopped pooping for now. from lack of food? i cannot seem to find metronidazole in my area (!!!). will the baktopur work just as well??? i will try ordering medicated food from the US but by the time it gets here - might be too late to actually come of any help this time...

i actually added the baktopur already to the hospital tank- i figured i might as well finish treatment on the pearscale too - since i cant really use antibiotics every other day - and if it is as humans - stopping before the actual end of treatment is harmful... she seems all happy swimming around... they have never bullied her before... should i add salt or epson salt for her injuries? assuming she also has some internal parasite issue...

what is prazi??? and i added a few salt in the tank a few weeks ago-does that count? must i assume every fish i get is sick to start with? i get it from a local importer..

as for the flukes the omnipur said it treated that... if you mean gill flukes...

thanx for your detailed help!!!

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You only need enough gravel to barely cover the bottom. Any more then that is more likely to breed stuff you don't want in your tank and make your fish sick.

When you take it out take out a little at a time so you don't pollet the water.

Are you feeding peas? I would just blanch them and remove the skin. Then drop in the fish tank.

When you salt a tank you need to add salt according to the directions when you do a water change. Like if you take out a gallon add salt for that gallon.

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You only need enough gravel to barely cover the bottom. Any more then that is more likely to breed stuff you don't want in your tank and make your fish sick.

When you take it out take out a little at a time so you don't pollet the water.

-if i don't have this much gravel the plants roots wont be able to attack to the bottom/ the gravel wont cover the root part of my plants... i already have it at the bare minimun - some of the roots already stick out. would sand be better?

Are you feeding peas?

- for now im fasting them for 3 days then i will feed the peas... i usually feed them peas onceor twice a week.

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thanx for all your help!

i have the tablet baktopur 'direct' - my thumb is indeed yellow - so is the tank! as composition it only says Nifurpirinol 27.6 and binding agent - it seems a very pure version. the man at the store warned me that it was very strong - and that i cannot re-use it before 6months. I cannot do any water change for another 2 days as the meds are in - then i will do a BIG water change and put in some active carbon to clean out the meds - will the fish be clear of the interior parasites with one round? i put 3 tabs that i crushed in the aquarium as it said 1 per every 50 liter and i have 150lt.

Your fish is more important than the meds. Take the water out by as much as 80% and switch your meds to just epsom salt and metronidazole for the dropsy-infected fish. Get activated carbon and keep it in tank for two days to remove the Sera meds. Do daily water changes as necessary as the nitrite and ammonia can be kept at zero. They're gentler than the Sera products. I've used some Sera meds before and they are far too strong for some of my fish. I wasn't even back into goldfish at that time but plenty of tropicals are more sensitive than goldfish. I'd still be wary regardless of what to treat any fish I have.

Did you quarantine your last new fish?

NOOOOOO ohmy.gif i realize now that that was BAD! but my hospital tank wasn't cycled yet... I'm new at goldfish keeping so... but i dont think he brought the sicknesses - he is still the most healthy looking one!

Since you have a hospital tank already, it's doable as a quarantine tank. If you don't have a space for more new fish, get another spare tank, preferably 10-15g.

Were all fish treated with anything else PRIOR to this situation?

not really... some salt once in a while - it mostly started a few weeks ago with the hole in the head issue - but we treated the fish (now dead) in the hospital tank... which was probably wrong as she had probably already infected the main tank...

Every new fish should be treated with salt and prazi during quarantine period. Quarantine period is 3-4 weeks. I quarantine mine for 4 weeks or more though as I tend to be careful with the prevalent ailments such as fish lice, anchorworms, flukes, ich, etc.

How thick is your gravel?

about 1inch from the black plastic I can see - maybe 2 total? i am planning to change it all in 1-2 months... the gravel pieces are quite large - but small enough for the larger goldfish to put it in their mouths...

Is the tank planted?

not planted perse but it has 4 healthy live plants in it.

should i remove gravel? i dont really want an empty tank... would thinner gravel or sand help to keep it cleaner? that is what i have in my turtle tank - and that is seemingly easier to clean with syphon... or should i put the plant substrante and actually plant some plants?

One inch thick gravel is all you need. Is it possible for you to confine the plants in pots? This is my personal preference but I think it is best a barebottom setup would be more beneficial for your goldfish. The substrate is not much use for the goldfish at all. Plants can be confined in pots with gravel inside and freely move around to remove the organic matter accumulating around.

When the fish died, are you sure the holes in its face were not perpetrated by its other tankmates? How deep were the holes? Did the holes look scattered around the face and seem to be bleeding (red/white edges around the circle)?

thats what the man at the store said when we showed him the fish... but he also claimed she was healthy - as if! the holes were pretty deep with red center... she had 2 or 3 on her face and a few on her body - some same and one was infected spot type - fugus? she was pretty messed up when she died - also floated the last day - not able to swim anymore... she had also been loosing color for the last few weeks - she used to be red and clack and died more of a orange and light grey...

Hmmm...Red center and white edges to be more precise? Seems evidently bacterial infection to me if I am not mistaken. But bacterial infections tend to act as secondary infections when the slimecoat or skin of the fish is destroyed allowing the bacteria to penetrate the blood vessels and infect the fish in the process. Your best defense mechanism here is keep water very clean, thin out your substrate to eliminate more bacterial beds and vary your fish's food diet.

i will keep fasting the fish. they have all stopped pooping for now. from lack of food? i cannot seem to find metronidazole in my area (!!!). will the baktopur work just as well??? i will try ordering medicated food from the US but by the time it gets here - might be too late to actually come of any help this time...

The others that don't have dropsy need to be fed. They need nutritious foods to be able to resist infections.

As for the one with dropsy, like I said before, treat with epsom salt and metro. Epsom salt will do for now if you can't find metro. A good alternative you can order from US is Metromeds. Maybe if you order, include MediGold in your package. Feed him chopped pieces of shrimps or crushed peas.

i actually added the baktopur already to the hospital tank- i figured i might as well finish treatment on the pearscale too - since i cant really use antibiotics every other day - and if it is as humans - stopping before the actual end of treatment is harmful... she seems all happy swimming around... they have never bullied her before... should i add salt or epson salt for her injuries? assuming she also has some internal parasite issue...

Epsom salt is what you need.

what is prazi??? and i added a few salt in the tank a few weeks ago-does that count? must i assume every fish i get is sick to start with? i get it from a local importer..

How much salt did you dose exactly?

Praziquantel is a med used for trematodes (flukes) and cestodes (flatworms). Treat all fish with prazi. Flukes are a common and dangerous parasite to begin with. You can order prazi from USA as Prazipro or Droncit in USA if not available in your area.

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okey so gravel has been reduced to 1/3, about half an inch. the water change has been made... yet - no change in the popping out scales ... BUT new problem!!! the little one in the hospital tank who didnt have any symptoms but the torn fin now has POPEYE!!!! what am i doing wrong?! or is it all connected!? the water parameters are perfect...

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Unfortunately it's not much help now, but in the future try to avoid meds containing malachite green, it's a known carcenogenic. I used to use it before Koko's but haven't touched it since.

I don't know if you can cut short a treatment of bactopur (Lupin?!) but I would at least be doing daily gravel siphons, it will dilute the meds a bit but it will reduce the amount of waste and thus nitrites, and I would feed the fish less so there's less waste in the first place. Those meds sound nastily concentrated anyway, get another opinion on that. After you've finished the meds course you are going to need to do minimum 75% DAILY water changes as your cycle is likely to really struggle if it survives. Nitrites are not as bad as ammonia but they're still nasty. I hope you don't have a water meter!

Have you ever made gelfood before? I have some Flagyl tablets that contain the same active ingredients as Metromeds and I can try and get it in the post tomorrow for you with some epsom salts for dropsy? You would have to crush the tablets into the gelfood mix before it sets. Lupin can help you out on ingredients to use for maximum goldie health and possibly how many tablets to put in per quantity of gelfood, I have no clue on that one. My email address is devilduck_2001@hotmail.com if you want to give me your address, I don't know how fast postage to Switzerland is but I'll see what I can do.

Some photos of your fish would be very very helpful. Something you might describe as mouth rot someone else might see as columnaris, slimecoat or even cheek growth on a wenned fish.

Popeye is sometimes seen with dropsy, sometimes on its own, again, photos would be helpful!

Best of luck

EDIT: Get a second opinion on my suggestions before doing anything please, I'm still learning a lot about goldfish illnesses and treatments myself!

Edited by devilduck
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okey so now the two little ones -dropsy and popeye are keeping each other company in the hospital tank... the are swimming and i fed them a few pea bits before which they both enjoyed... they are quite hard to photograph! my boyfriend is now out to get the epson and i just did an 80-90% water change of hospital tank. the antibiotics are done today so i will also do an 85% water change of large aquarium...

the dropsy fish seems inflated and the scales have not changed - the area 'fish doctor' told me he will probably die...... the pop eye seemed FINE till this morning - it seemed the eye inflated over night... is that possible? it looks just like her eye has a transparent ballon on top of it... one eye for sure - the other is way smaller but also looks a bit swollen... i will add the epson to both tanks??? i read its 1 table spoon per 5 gallons... is that correct? this is both good for dropsy and pop eye correct?

regarding my big telescope with the white growth on his mouth - i dont think its an illness - he has had it on and off since i got him - maybe from gravel cleaning? i have already treated him against the mouth rot etc and it doesnt really help... so i dont think its anything... will see if he still has it with the sand...

thanx so much for ur kind offer! i will see if i can get any meds from the US and i will get back to you... anyways it will probably be too late for the dropsy fishie...

again, i cant really say if the popeye fish has dropsy as she is a crownhead pearlscale - so she is golfball size normally :s

will get to the water change now!

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Can you maybe take a video instead of pictures? If it's not dropsy then you may want to use something other than epsom salts. Any kind of visual aid would be really useful! It can be hard to suggest medications and solutions without being sure of the problem.

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A tablespoon per gallon is for sodium chloride, not epsom salts (magnesium sulfate). You need just 1/8 to 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salt. Perhaps go slow first with 1/8 teaspoon. A tablespoon is too much and it is equivalent to 3 teaspoons. It would be nice though to get metronidazole. Don't use kanamycin if you can find this one. With dropsy cases, there is no telling if renal failure is somehow involved or simply bacterial infection that had caused it but not organ damage.

Usually, the popeye is a result of fluids building up behind the eyes. Don't give up, hun. Your "fish doctor" might tell you that but we usually don't give up when a fish has severe health issues. Try the best that you can and your fish will be grateful someone really cares.heartpump.gif

I do wonder if the temperature matches between the main and hospital tank? How long ago did it happen to your pearlscale prior to introducing it in the hospital tank? How was she introduced to the hospital tank?

Unfortunately, there are many causes of popeye.

1. Water parameters.

2. Bacterial problems.

3. Inadequate nutrition.

4. Oversaturation of gases.

5. Dropsy itself.

6. Injuries or trauma.

I'm more inclined to guess stress and possible bacterial infection contributed to this rapid progression of popeye. I wish you have access to metronidazole or Metromeds. That's the best thing we can do.

If the fish gets mouth infections because of constant foraging to the substrate, then it is safe to say the gravel harbors a lot of bad bacteria that resulted in that. It's another one of these reasons I don't like to keep substrate in my goldfish tanks anymore. I just don't have much time to vacuum thoroughly the gravel bed and it keeps accummulating more organic matter than I can ever handle. I keep my goldfish tanks barebottom and they can even find foods much better this way.

On the issue of using dangerous or wrong antibiotics like Sera Baktopur, I would have switched to metro if dropsy case was involved. Several meds have side effects that can greatly take their toll on fish much more than a disease or health issue can. Please remember dropsy is internal and VERY hard to diagnose the actual cause of this problem. Better cut it short than to risk killing the fish especially if the side effects or lack of improvement from it becomes evident after having been used for a period of time. Since the treatment course is done already, then this argument is moot anyway. Just have a preference on metro and epsom salts over most antibiotics for dropsy any day. These ones focus on internal problems thus they are much more efficient.

Edited by Lupin
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she def has popeye - it looks just like some pictures i found online... i just cleaned out the entire aquarium... she is in hospital tank with the dropsy fish. i gave them epson salts like the recommended dose - is this also for popeye? she seems constipated so they cant hurt right?

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A tablespoon per gallon is for sodium chloride, not epsom salts (magnesium sulfate). You need just 1/8 to 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salt. Perhaps go slow first with 1/8 teaspoon. A tablespoon is too much and it is equivalent to 3 teaspoons.

okey did that. now i moved the two 'healthy' big fish to a bare bottomed large hospital tank - over the next few days i will empty out the large aquarium etc... the two large ones seem 'cured' of the internal probs as they r pooping fine... they have only been fed a few peas today - how fast do i re pick up the usual feedings? i add both salt and epson to their tank? the only issue they could have is a reduced slime coat - is that possible? from the meds? how can i rebuild it up healthily...?

i put them in the smaller/ bare tank so its much easier and faster to keep the water changes up - and they have no risk from the gravel for now...

Usually, the popeye is a result of fluids building up behind the eyes.

- thats what it seems - poor thing its huge!

should i re-change the water of the small hospital tank tonight again???

I do wonder if the temperature matches between the main and hospital tank? How long ago did it happen to your pearlscale prior to introducing it in the hospital tank? How was she introduced to the hospital tank?

they are identical the temps... i introduced her in hospital tank cause she was being bullied... and overnight the second day (this morning) she had the huge eye... could it really be from bacteria EVEN AFTER the strong antibiotic treatment.

Unfortunately, there are many causes of popeye.

1. Water parameters.

2. Bacterial problems.

3. Inadequate nutrition.

4. Oversaturation of gases.

5. Dropsy itself.

6. Injuries or trauma.

I'm more inclined to guess stress and possible bacterial infection contributed to this rapid progression of popeye. I wish you have access to metronidazole or Metromeds. That's the best thing we can do

they dont have the metro ANYWHERE in switzerland :'(

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Do not use salt and epsom together. I would just hold off adding anything to that tank for now unless you're absolutely positive there's no dropsy signs, then I would think about adding salt to 0.1%

If your med tanks are cycled then I would do 25% a day until they're better minimum, if not I'd do 75% a day.

Remember - clean water and no meds is much much better than bombarding with the wrong meds, it won't harm your goldies to wait an hour or two, or even overnight in most cases, for someone to decide what the best meds are as long as they're in clean water, using the wrong meds can cause more harm than good. It can be hard, but try to just relax and keep the water clean. This is an absolute priority.

My Flagyl offer still stands if you want it. ;)

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Hi there! You have gotten some great help from the looks of it. I am so sorry that this seems to have happened so suddenly!

I believe that all these problems are related, and that the newest fish is the one that introduced them to your system. The newest fish may look the best, but that is because he is already used to this infection. The other fish are not, so they got hit the hardest.

Change the water in the hospital tank as often as you wish. But remember that dropsy is advanced by fluctuating temperatures. Do you have a heater in there? It should be set at about 76-80 degrees Fahrenheit.

Yes it is very possibly that your fish still have bacterial infections even after the strong anti-bacterial medication. There are a million reasons why...I definitely recommend finding ANYTHING with metranidizole in it. Even if it's the water born type (called MetroPlus in the US). Yuor best bet might be calling Rick from goldfishconnection.com (a Canadian Site) and explaining to him your situation and seeing if he can't overnight you some MetroMeds. It will be expensive, but worth it.

Clean water in your main tank is the best idea right now. It seems like your fish are starting to get over it (regular poo) so just keep an eye on them. I would continue the peas for at least three days. You want their poo to be COMPLETELY green. That means that you have cleaned out their insides of everything except the peas. Then you can start to wean them back onto more substantial foods. If you are feeding mainly processed foods, make sure you feed very little. My rule of thumb is, drop one piece in at a time until the pieces start to sit on the bottom for more than 15 seconds or so. When your fish don't immediately gobble up the food, it means they are full and have switched into scavenge mode. It may seem like you are feeding them so little as to not be enough, but trust me, it's enough. I feed mine like this two or three times a day, 6 days a week. One day a week they get fasted.

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so daily update - the two sick fish dont seem to be getting any better. the dropsy fish actualy looks like he is getting MORE bloated... and the popeye seems the same...

what else can i do? im keeping up with daily water changes and with the epson salts...

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i tried to get the Metro from goldfish connection but they claim they cannot ship overseas... the dropsy fish is getting worse!!! will he have any chance of recovery?!

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i got the metrooooo!!!!!!!!!!! hurraaaaaaaaay!!!!!!! i managed to get 'parasite clear' from jungle labs which has metro in it! they r fix tablets - going to add them to both tanks to make sure the parasites are all cleared... the popeye is a bit better - it less one big bubble, more a few tiny ones under the eye - good sign!? the dropsy fish is same - but still swimming and eating a pea happily when i feed him once every few days... doing daily small water changes too.

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