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Multiple Treatments


indoxsmokez

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Im treating my tank for parasites right now and I couldn't get any Aqua-Prazi or any PraziPro, so Im using Jungle Lab's Parasite Clear. Ive read the post about it and I know the acriflavine might be too harsh for my goldfishes, but I thought better this than nothing at all. Anyway, im 2 days into the treatment and now im seeing signs of Ich on a couple of them. So, my question is, could I combine these 2 treatments? If so, how would the water changes be affected? Please help.

water parameters

temp = 72*F

ammonia = 0

nitrite = 0

nitrate = < 30

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A mod may correct me if I'm wrong, but ich is also a type of parasite. So, the parasite clear should help get rid of that too. Have you added salt? With ich, generally it's good to raise the temp in the tank and add salt. But that's all I'm going to say, because I don't want to lead you in the wrong direction with this. Wait till a moderator replies also until you do anything! :)

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A mod may correct me if I'm wrong, but ich is also a type of parasite. So, the parasite clear should help get rid of that too. Have you added salt? With ich, generally it's good to raise the temp in the tank and add salt. But that's all I'm going to say, because I don't want to lead you in the wrong direction with this. Wait till a moderator replies also until you do anything! :)

thanks for the quick reply either way. lets see, unfortunately i dont have money for a heater for my 36g right now(theyre pretty pricey!!) so i cant raise the temp but i suppose i can buy salt but have no experience using salt, other than what i have read from this forum and im kind of scared to...so anymore info would be appreciated as far as salt.

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A mod may correct me if I'm wrong, but ich is also a type of parasite. So, the parasite clear should help get rid of that too. Have you added salt? With ich, generally it's good to raise the temp in the tank and add salt. But that's all I'm going to say, because I don't want to lead you in the wrong direction with this. Wait till a moderator replies also until you do anything! :)

Sakura is absolutely right. Ich IS a parasite that is best treated with salt.. :-) I'll get into more detail in a minute on that.

Now before anything else, could I please have you fill out this ENTIRE box of questions? That way we don't miss out on something important?

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[*]Water temperature?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

The Jungle Parasite Clear that u are using treats many parasites, including flukes which it sounds like is what u were treating for. Its all all around medication designed to treat the majority of parasites.. It contains prazi for the flukes and the acriflavine should treat the ich. BUT you are asbolutely right in that it is a harsher med, some weaker fish will be bothered by it, AND also it can effect your biologicial filter in a negative way.

Now, first of all, Ich gets worse before it gets better. Once u start ANY Ich treatment u will see the white spots get worse before they get better. So dont panick! :-)

Second, although u CAN use the current medication, it is MUCH more preferable that u removed the meds completely and treated with salt and prazi alone. It's much less stressful on the fish. If you choose to use the salt, its very simple. First step will be to do a large water change. Full water change if possible, remembering to use temperature matched dechlorinated water. Next you want to remember that you will be adding the salt in steps so that u do not shock the fish. You will add 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water. Then wait 12 hours. At that time add ANOTHER 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon. Wait ANOTHER 12 hours. And finally, add one MORE teaspoon of salt per gallon of water. This brings you to three teaspoons of salt per gallon which is a concentration of 0.3% salt which is enough to kill MOST parasites.

After u've salted there a few more things to remember. 1) when u do a water change u are removing the salt, so you must add back what u took out. If you take out 5 gallons of water at 0.3% salt you are removing 15 tsp of salt and u must put that back in. Its very smart to keep a log of what is in your water. 2) water changes are very important right now! Gravel vacuum thoroughly!

I'll end here for now, I would like to go over ur answers to the box of questions b4 adding anything else but that should give u a good start! :-)

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A mod may correct me if I'm wrong, but ich is also a type of parasite. So, the parasite clear should help get rid of that too. Have you added salt? With ich, generally it's good to raise the temp in the tank and add salt. But that's all I'm going to say, because I don't want to lead you in the wrong direction with this. Wait till a moderator replies also until you do anything! :)

Sakura is absolutely right. Ich IS a parasite that is best treated with salt.. :-) I'll get into more detail in a minute on that.

Now before anything else, could I please have you fill out this ENTIRE box of questions? That way we don't miss out on something important?

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[*]Water temperature?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

The Jungle Parasite Clear that u are using treats many parasites, including flukes which it sounds like is what u were treating for. Its all all around medication designed to treat the majority of parasites.. It contains prazi for the flukes and the acriflavine should treat the ich. BUT you are asbolutely right in that it is a harsher med, some weaker fish will be bothered by it, AND also it can effect your biologicial filter in a negative way.

Now, first of all, Ich gets worse before it gets better. Once u start ANY Ich treatment u will see the white spots get worse before they get better. So dont panick! :-)

Second, although u CAN use the current medication, it is MUCH more preferable that u removed the meds completely and treated with salt and prazi alone. It's much less stressful on the fish. If you choose to use the salt, its very simple. First step will be to do a large water change. Full water change if possible, remembering to use temperature matched dechlorinated water. Next you want to remember that you will be adding the salt in steps so that u do not shock the fish. You will add 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water. Then wait 12 hours. At that time add ANOTHER 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon. Wait ANOTHER 12 hours. And finally, add one MORE teaspoon of salt per gallon of water. This brings you to three teaspoons of salt per gallon which is a concentration of 0.3% salt which is enough to kill MOST parasites.

After u've salted there a few more things to remember. 1) when u do a water change u are removing the salt, so you must add back what u took out. If you take out 5 gallons of water at 0.3% salt you are removing 15 tsp of salt and u must put that back in. Its very smart to keep a log of what is in your water. 2) water changes are very important right now! Gravel vacuum thoroughly!

I'll end here for now, I would like to go over ur answers to the box of questions b4 adding anything else but that should give u a good start! :-)

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? <20 ppm (30ppm on original post was a typo)

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? ph - 8.0

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? n/a

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Freshwater Master Test Kit (liquid)

[*]Water temperature? 72 * F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 36 gallons / about a year and a half

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Marineland Emperor 280 HOB, Marineland Penguin 200 HOB, Rena XP1 Canister Filter

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? about 25% every week, 50% every month

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 orandas, 2 lionheads, 2 fantails, 1 telescope - all goldfishes are medium sized, about 3 inches w/o tails

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? prime water conditioner

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? omega one pellets, hai feng goldfish food, hikari brine shrimp, freeze dried plankton..3 times a day/variety of these day to day.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? all fish are new except one fantail

[*]Any medications added to the tank? Jungle Labs Parasite Clear

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? signs of ich spots starting to show

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? the telescope isnt too active but the rest seem good.

other info : i used to take care of this tank but moved away for a year and came back to find out that the other goldfish had died and left with only 1 fantail. During my time not living here my cousin had bought 2 small plecos. So we added the other 6 fish but the pleco attacked one of the new fish. so now the plecos are in a seperate 20g tank.

sorry if i left anything out and i really appreciate your quick and very indepth answers. thank you.

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I think I have heard acraflavin and more possibly malachite green will kill protozoan parasites but personally I wouldnt trust either. These are found in many OTC ich treatments that have not worked.

Salt is the #1 best treatment for the ich parasite in my opinion and prazi the best for flukes. If you cannot see any visible parasites on the fish then this is your best treatment : prazi and salt. I agree with Country Lovah this is just the safest gentlest and most effective method to combat all non visible parasites.

There is a link in my signature how to salt. Which salt to use and how to do it safely over 3 days.

At lower temps like yours the ich life cycle is going to take longer. By increasing the temp slowly up to 80 you can speed up the process causing less damage to your fish.

You need to hurry with the salt start. You can use it with the PC tabs. You need to do some much larger water changes and you should increase surface agitation so there is plenty of splash on the surface of your water. Still water breeds parasites and bad bacteria fast.

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I agree with Country Lovah this is just the safest gentlest and most effective method to combat all non visible parasites.

Trinket is one of the moderators that helped ME when I first came to this board when I was in the SAME position as u. My fish had Ich and I was treating with medications that were making them worse.. Trinket and the other mods/helpers/members helped me out and explained the benefits of salting. And to prove them RIGHT, all of the fish that I had that were treated with Ich meds died. But the fish that I treated with salt survived!! :-)

Now that I've had a chance to read the answers you have posted, I would like to add a few more things that may help in the long run, AFTER we get this Ich problem taken care of!

Unfortunately ur tank is overstocked. :oops:

So many people don't realize it, but fancy goldfish like yours need 10 gallons of space each MINIMUM. Which means that for YOUR fish (7 correct) you would need a 70 gallon tank at the smallest...

It seems like a lot I realize. But in the long run, the only way to get healthy happy goldfish is to follow this rule. So eventually, u are going to have to think about upgrading ur tank, or rehoming some of the fish.

In the meantime u can possibly set up a rubbermaid container as a temporary home for some of the fish.. Add a filter and bubble wand and ur good to go.

Next... ur water changes are on the small site, especially considering how many fish you have in there..Don't get me wrong - u are doing MUCH better than A LOT of people I see on here... I've seen people who dont change their water at ALL!

But you will need to start doing at least 50% a week minimum once you get ur tank to the right stocking level. And until then u may need to do more, or twice weekly changes. It sounds like a lot I know. But unfortunately in overstocked tanks there is no other way..:(

I hope all of this does not overwhelm u! I remember when I was told the same things and at first I thought "WHAT?! This is INSANE?!" lolol I just want to make sure you have all the facts..

Now.... lets deal with that Ich! :)

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I think I have heard acraflavin and more possibly malachite green will kill protozoan parasites but personally I wouldnt trust either. These are found in many OTC ich treatments that have not worked.

Salt is the #1 best treatment for the ich parasite in my opinion and prazi the best for flukes. If you cannot see any visible parasites on the fish then this is your best treatment : prazi and salt. I agree with Country Lovah this is just the safest gentlest and most effective method to combat all non visible parasites.

There is a link in my signature how to salt. Which salt to use and how to do it safely over 3 days.

At lower temps like yours the ich life cycle is going to take longer. By increasing the temp slowly up to 80 you can speed up the process causing less damage to your fish.

You need to hurry with the salt start. You can use it with the PC tabs. You need to do some much larger water changes and you should increase surface agitation so there is plenty of splash on the surface of your water. Still water breeds parasites and bad bacteria fast.

well i just read that salting article you have in your signature, very helpful indeed...and ill try to salt ASAP then..BUT, where exactly do you buy 100% pure salt? like at the grocery store or like specialized pet store?... also, i would increase the temp if i could, but dont have a heater big enough for the tank atm. even though it takes longer at the colder temperatures, eventually the ich will be completely gone either way right?

I agree with Country Lovah this is just the safest gentlest and most effective method to combat all non visible parasites.

Trinket is one of the moderators that helped ME when I first came to this board when I was in the SAME position as u. My fish had Ich and I was treating with medications that were making them worse.. Trinket and the other mods/helpers/members helped me out and explained the benefits of salting. And to prove them RIGHT, all of the fish that I had that were treated with Ich meds died. But the fish that I treated with salt survived!! :-)

Now that I've had a chance to read the answers you have posted, I would like to add a few more things that may help in the long run, AFTER we get this Ich problem taken care of!

Unfortunately ur tank is overstocked. :oops:

So many people don't realize it, but fancy goldfish like yours need 10 gallons of space each MINIMUM. Which means that for YOUR fish (7 correct) you would need a 70 gallon tank at the smallest...

It seems like a lot I realize. But in the long run, the only way to get healthy happy goldfish is to follow this rule. So eventually, u are going to have to think about upgrading ur tank, or rehoming some of the fish.

In the meantime u can possibly set up a rubbermaid container as a temporary home for some of the fish.. Add a filter and bubble wand and ur good to go.

Next... ur water changes are on the small site, especially considering how many fish you have in there..Don't get me wrong - u are doing MUCH better than A LOT of people I see on here... I've seen people who dont change their water at ALL!

But you will need to start doing at least 50% a week minimum once you get ur tank to the right stocking level. And until then u may need to do more, or twice weekly changes. It sounds like a lot I know. But unfortunately in overstocked tanks there is no other way..:(

I hope all of this does not overwhelm u! I remember when I was told the same things and at first I thought "WHAT?! This is INSANE?!" lolol I just want to make sure you have all the facts..

Now.... lets deal with that Ich! :)

well...i am aware of the..10g/fish rule but the problem is, this is really my aunts tank and i just "take care" of it and she DEF does not want just 3 fish in there (trust me i TRIED). she once put 5 small cichlids in a 5 gallon hex tank..=x which of course died...

anyway, seeing that theres no way around overstocking with my aunt, i convinced her to buy a rena canister filter on top of the 2 HOB filters we already had...and i thought that with 660 gal/hr total filtration rate that that would alleviate the pollution issue a bit. even though "theres no such thing as over-filtration, but at 660 gal/hr in a 36 gal tank, i mean that should be ok right? and is that 10g/fish rule more of a pollution issue...or room to grow issue?

i know im kinda all over the place..lol sorry...its late..

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anyway, seeing that theres no way around overstocking with my aunt, i convinced her to buy a rena canister filter on top of the 2 HOB filters we already had...and i thought that with 660 gal/hr total filtration rate that that would alleviate the pollution issue a bit. even though "theres no such thing as over-filtration, but at 660 gal/hr in a 36 gal tank, i mean that should be ok right? and is that 10g/fish rule more of a pollution issue...or room to grow issue?

i know im kinda all over the place..lol sorry...its late..

The 10 gallons is to do with both the waste and the size of a fully grown adult goldie, some can easily reach 8-10 inches depending on the type. My oranda is 6 inches nose to tail tip and makes a 10 gallon tub look tiny...I can see your aunt's point about not wanting only 3 fish in a big tank, I currently have two in a 47 gallon and it does look a bit empty as one of them's tiny, but they will grow.

One of the things that makes my tank look less empty when understocked is planting it up with java ferns. Would your aunt consider rehoming some of the fish and then planting the tank up a bit? It makes it a bit more of a 'feature' item then as people look at the tank instead of just the fish, and plants can really help with the bioload provided you don't add so many they starve the filter bacteria. I've seen some gorgeous planted tanks without any fish in them and they look stunning, the movement of the plants is enough to captivate. Alternatively if she wants lots of fish rather than 2-3 and you don't have a heater, what about a big school of minnows? I think you could easily have 20 in a tank that size, they grow to about 2 inches long and have gorgeous silver stripes and bright red tails and fins and a school can look quite striking. It would mean rehoming your goldies though...

If you feed your fish good foods 3-4 times a day in small portions they should grow pretty quick, as much as 2-3 inches in a few months is not unheard of.

Good call on the filter, it'll help but it's unfortunately still not a long term solution. Stubborn relatives can be such a pain can't they wink.gif

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anyway, seeing that theres no way around overstocking with my aunt, i convinced her to buy a rena canister filter on top of the 2 HOB filters we already had...and i thought that with 660 gal/hr total filtration rate that that would alleviate the pollution issue a bit. even though "theres no such thing as over-filtration, but at 660 gal/hr in a 36 gal tank, i mean that should be ok right? and is that 10g/fish rule more of a pollution issue...or room to grow issue?

i know im kinda all over the place..lol sorry...its late..

The 10 gallons is to do with both the waste and the size of a fully grown adult goldie, some can easily reach 8-10 inches depending on the type. My oranda is 6 inches nose to tail tip and makes a 10 gallon tub look tiny...I can see your aunt's point about not wanting only 3 fish in a big tank, I currently have two in a 47 gallon and it does look a bit empty as one of them's tiny, but they will grow.

One of the things that makes my tank look less empty when understocked is planting it up with java ferns. Would your aunt consider rehoming some of the fish and then planting the tank up a bit? It makes it a bit more of a 'feature' item then as people look at the tank instead of just the fish, and plants can really help with the bioload provided you don't add so many they starve the filter bacteria. I've seen some gorgeous planted tanks without any fish in them and they look stunning, the movement of the plants is enough to captivate. Alternatively if she wants lots of fish rather than 2-3 and you don't have a heater, what about a big school of minnows? I think you could easily have 20 in a tank that size, they grow to about 2 inches long and have gorgeous silver stripes and bright red tails and fins and a school can look quite striking. It would mean rehoming your goldies though...

If you feed your fish good foods 3-4 times a day in small portions they should grow pretty quick, as much as 2-3 inches in a few months is not unheard of.

Good call on the filter, it'll help but it's unfortunately still not a long term solution. Stubborn relatives can be such a pain can't they wink.gif

hmm java ferns would look nice , ive had them in with my bettas awhile back. hmm, my uncle is building a pond in the back that is almost done. maybe i can put them in there? and then convince my aunt not to buy anymor fish!...that way i can have 3 in that tank...and the rest in the pond?

the smaller schooling fish is a no-go...closest thing she had was guppies and that wasnt so popular...

and talk about relatives...what makes it worse is, our family friends, pack the goldfish in a small tank all the time, they like to cram em in there with no swimming room! the worst one is...20g tank about TWENTY goldfish..and i think a couple KOI in there too..im like ...wtf...

also a sidenote...i live with my aunt, in case any of u were wondering why im so busy with my aunt's tank and uncle'es pond lol

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Hi there! How are the fish doing? Is the ich still a problem? How about the other parasites?

You can buy pure salt at the grocery store. I buy it there! It's in a GREEN 4LB box. It's called "Canning and Pickling Salt" it even says on the front of the box "Pure Salt. Nothing Added" It's morton brand so I figure, they know salt!

Let us know how it's going :)

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