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M*gic

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I'm doing Para-Cide up to now... I have put them back to the old 16" cube tank... so 25% water change (20 ltr) every day, and new dose of 1/2 tablet for every water change. Salt concentration is 0.15%.

Good news is considering the condition they were in 1-2 weeks ago, they're in much better shape now:

- Pearl: doesn't do any flashing only rare "running"... he's eating fine, although he no longer goes to surface to beg for food. I have to sink the foods... but he eats like a horse. He appears to be "distracted" sometimes, like losing his target on the sinking pellet... but seems to be in good health now. I can still see 2 small transparent dots on his tail.

- Black ranchu: after 2 weeks of rejecting foods, now he's eating... not even throwing out anymore! But he's still weak and can't swim... only lay on the bottom everyday... I have to put him in the fish net to feed him... and I mildly rub his body and "fan" him at times just to care for him... etc.

They're doing better now... but I still do medication until they completely recover... or should I stop now, considering I have done it for two full weeks now?

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If you're doing water changes in the middle of treatment, redose Paracide per water volume changed. Only water changes will remove the med but so does a period of time as trichlorfon is water soluble and eventually deactivates after a period. I'd personally keep treatment for anchorworms, fish lice and leech for 2-3 weeks. 2 weeks minimum with high temperature (to make them reproduce or the eggs hatch quickly) thus the trichlorfon immediately kills them. 3 weeks is even better if your fish is able to tolerate it. When was the last louse spotted? In my experience, the fish would react slightly to it by loss of appetite and a bit of flicking here and there. They eventually adjust.

Good to hear your fish are improving.:)

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Good news is my pearl just came to surface after hesitating about it... :) he ate from my finger again after so long!!

My blackie is still weak and I have to feed him in the fish net. He seems eager for food and ate 4-5 soaked pellets without throwing up, but when I was about to place him back to the bottom, he threw out all the foods. Next time, I'd better wait until he swallows all and puts him back.

But overall, they're all in better condition now, especially pearlie.

Last lice spotted was a few days ago actually, it was near pearl tail section... but still on his body. It was pretty big, so I actually killed it (I think I did) by pinching it using my long nails (which I hadn't clipped then), didn't scratch the pearl, so...

---

My question is: if I start from scratch in the future... how should I quarantine the fish? Should I treat the water with Para-Cide or is Prazi enough? And then salt at what concentration? How long? Is quarantining goldie the same as other tropical fish like guppies, etc? Thanks for answering :)

Edited by nakedsnake
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Prazi and salt at 0.3% only. If external parasites such as lice were spotted, then treat with Paracide. Paracide is a bit too strong for some fish so I'd rather not suggest using it as a prophylactic.

For salt, I go with this route.

0.3%-first two weeks

0.2%-third week

0.1%-last week

Of course, if you spot problems such as ich, then the 0.3% concentration must be maintained for at least 2-3 weeks as long as the issue persists.

Quarantine should be 3-4 weeks. The longer, the better actually. Your patience will pay off. Cutting it short only compromises your other fish.

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All the bottle says is to retreat after 7 days to prevent reinfestation. Vague?

Yes very vague!!! lol

I'm glad to hear that the remaining fish seem to be responding better to you! That's reeeaally good news. Espeically that they are both eating and not spitting out the foods!!!

and I mildly rub his body and "fan" him at times just to care for him... etc.

Really? I wouldn't touch him if you don't need to. With fish that just stresses them out and rubs their slime coat. No needs to "comfort" them in that way like you would with a "furry" pet..

I think the QT regime Lupin suggested sounds good. Pretty much the same as I do..I always do salt and prazi only.. I QT all new fish for at least a month, using prazi the whole time and do 2 weeks of salt at 0.3%...

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Thanks for your attention guys! My pearl is back to begging food from surface again after so long :) :)

Black ranchu is still lying weak on the bottom, it's as if he doesn't have the lift to swim... poor boy but I can see him gaining more strength and his stomach is not as skinny as it was one week ago.

I do 25% water change everyday :)

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Black ranchu is still lying weak on the bottom, it's as if he doesn't have the lift to swim... poor boy but I can see him gaining more strength and his stomach is not as skinny as it was one week ago.

Well that's a good sign at least!!!! :-)

Thanks for your attention guys! My pearl is back to begging food from surface again after so long :) :)

Excellent!! Come on guys! You can do it!!!!!

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Yes, unlike other fish who "recovered" and then died... my pearl recovered and truly recovered.

My black ranchu is still lying on the bottom sand, moving slightly, but has appetite, and looks pretty healthy... just that weakness from the illness still lingering.

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Hi guys, just update, my black ranchu passed away two days ago, I'm not sure why, but he refused any type of food three days ago, and he had slight pinecone. When he died, the body lost the black colour and turned gold... it's a sad moment, he was my first fish in this set up

Then just today, after one week of looking fine and healthy, I caught my pearl flashing again and he was sputtering on the bottom... going upside down, etc... basically the same old symptom... although after 3 weeks plus of medication (Para-Cide), I never stopped it (only SLIGHTLY reduced the dose). I fear for the worst now... he's looking fine now, but as always he seems to lose focus at times, he often swims past foods instead of snatching them although he clearly wants to eat, he just "misses" the targets...

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^I wouldn't understand if I dissected him anyway... but I noticed he was covered with a brown slime layer on some part of his body...

I don't understand this... ammonia and nitrite should be 0 as I still do 25% water change daily, nitrate should be 5ppm.

pH is around 7.0. Para-Cide is still active... salt is 0.15%.

I really really don't know what I should do more... now as I'm typing this my pearl is going upside down staring at me... he's really suffering. I don't know what the heck this is nnnnn all about.

Edited by koko
No Cussing allowed plz
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^I wouldn't understand if I dissected him anyway... but I noticed he was covered with a brown slime layer on some part of his body...

I don't understand this... ammonia and nitrite should be 0 as I still do 25% water change daily, nitrate should be 5ppm.

pH is around 7.0. Para-Cide is still active... salt is 0.15%.

I really really don't know what I should do more... now as I'm typing this my pearl is going upside down staring at me... he's really suffering. I don't know what the heck this is all about.

Did you conduct another test for water parameters? What are the results before and after a water change?

How long had it been since the last fish argulus/fish louse was spotted?

There are many sites that are well articulated in explaining the goldfish's internal anatomy. It's a matter of patience and taking time to study the anatomy for you to understand better what you are trying to see when you do a necropsy on your fish.

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^Okay I'm very frustrated... we've gone 10 pages in this thread, and I have yet to see the clear answer on this "disease".

At first you and CountryLovah (the only two actively offering your advices) said it was flukes, so I ordered Prazi, then it was lice, so I got Para-Cide and treated Para-Cide... fish going okay for one week and then it goes like that again. And you asked me if I did a post mortem exam which I didn't... now my frustration is...

IS THIS FLUKES, LICE, OR SOME OTHER FRICKIN WORMS INSIDE THE BODY (YOU ASKED ME IF I SAW INSIDE THE BODY)?? CAN I HAVE ONE CLEAR ANSWER, INSTEAD OF "IT'S FLUKES, GO TREAT IT, NO NO IT'S LICE, GO TREAT IT, DID YOU DISSECT THE BODY TO FIND WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT"? SO IT'S NOT EITHER FLUKES OR LICE NOW?

Not specifically directing this to you or CountryLovah, but to my frustration. If goldie has so many diseases although I don't consider myself a bad owner, providing clear water treated with water conditioner, salt, and now medication. I don't exactly put mud in the tank and put goldies in there to live in the mud... if they're so prone to diseases when I have been so caring... what the heck more can I do??

We've gone 10 pages in this thread, and I thought it was lice, now you asked me if I dissected the fish to find what's wrong with it... so it's not lice now?

Again, no offense intended, if you're offended, I'm sorry... but again, it's just frustration. This has been going on since new year, it's safe to say little or much, my life in 2010 has been quite affected by it... I wouldn't say positively.

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I just want to say...everyone in this thread has been helping you free of charge, taking time out of their own day....so please, while I understand your frustration, don't get angry at the people who are going above and beyond to help (especially because they are attempting to do this over the internet and have nothing else to go on than your description.) I do understand how you feel though....it is a terrible feeling.

If you want to find a more definite and exact answer, I would suggest finding and taking them to a fish vet. Short of that, we are all very lucky to have people who are willing to help strangers on a forum free of charge. I know I've gotten help that wasn't 100 percent accurate before, but most of the time, the answers are spot on and I am very grateful for them.

I am very sorry to hear about your fish losses though....I think most fishkeepers have been through something similar at some point and you can't help but feeling completely helpless. It is wonderful that you have done so much to help them though.

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^Okay I'm very frustrated... we've gone 10 pages in this thread, and I have yet to see the clear answer on this "disease".

At first you and CountryLovah (the only two actively offering your advices) said it was flukes, so I ordered Prazi, then it was lice, so I got Para-Cide and treated Para-Cide... fish going okay for one week and then it goes like that again. And you asked me if I did a post mortem exam which I didn't... now my frustration is...

IS THIS FLUKES, LICE, OR SOME OTHER FRICKIN WORMS INSIDE THE BODY (YOU ASKED ME IF I SAW INSIDE THE BODY)?? CAN I HAVE ONE CLEAR ANSWER, INSTEAD OF "IT'S FLUKES, GO TREAT IT, NO NO IT'S LICE, GO TREAT IT, DID YOU DISSECT THE BODY TO FIND WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT"? SO IT'S NOT EITHER FLUKES OR LICE NOW?

Not specifically directing this to you or CountryLovah, but to my frustration. If goldie has so many diseases although I don't consider myself a bad owner, providing clear water treated with water conditioner, salt, and now medication. I don't exactly put mud in the tank and put goldies in there to live in the mud... if they're so prone to diseases when I have been so caring... what the heck more can I do??

We've gone 10 pages in this thread, and I thought it was lice, now you asked me if I dissected the fish to find what's wrong with it... so it's not lice now?

Again, no offense intended, if you're offended, I'm sorry... but again, it's just frustration. This has been going on since new year, it's safe to say little or much, my life in 2010 has been quite affected by it... I wouldn't say positively.

Firstly, you AFFIRMED to us fish lice are present. Did you not confirm Sakura's initial suspicion of lice as well? We suggested to you the trichlorfon. It is DOABLE. Unless you have a microscope to confirm flukes by skin and gill scrapes, we can only ASSUME that it is there considering they were never treated with prazi beforehand. The trichlorfon itself should have destroyed the flukes and all lice by now.

Dissection is another matter, not necessarily connecting to parasitic issues, perhaps indirectly. You mentioned pineconing and refusal to eat foods. All these issues prompted me to suggest necropsy because there is another underlying problem that could have caused the fish to pinecone. Only necropsy can help you pin down this other issue whether it was perpetrated by parasites or not. Parasites are the PRIMARY issue. Any infections are secondary. The parasites permit harmful bacteria to seep through blood vessels and eventually the core organs of the fish.

We NEVER said you put mud or anything as bad as that towards your fish. The fact remains however that there is an issue here that is still killing every fish you have slowly. The trouble is we are NOT always 100% accurate or correct in what we tell you but we try our best to cover all bases possible so we can eventually pin down the issue.

I understand your frustration, Nakedsnake however in this situation, we need to slow down and as much as possible just give plenty necessary details. Relax for awhile and plan out what else is needed to be done. I've been through these issues worse than yours.

Edited by Lupin
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I have to say something here... Everyone is trying to help you as much as they can.

First off just looking at your tank hun, That Sand is bad bad bad. Its making bad Bio's in this tank. It holds bad bugs in it. Im sorry but sand and goldfish just dont mix.

Second I dont know to much about your filtration but just looking at it, it doesnt look fast enough to deal with all this stuff.

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Hey..just reread my post and I wanted to clarify one little thing, I didn't mean to imply that any advice given in this post was inaccurate...:) I think everything that I've read has been amazing and really covering all bases.

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Relax for awhile and plan out what else is needed to be done.

What else though? I have put salt, tap water conditioner and Para-Cide. Fish still going crazy.

He was very round and now I can see the belly part is flat... it's literally like a flat tire. I am afraid he's going through what my red lionhead went through where the lice seemed to suck all of his belly content...

I've been through these issues worse than yours.

I'm curious though, do you STILL face the same issues? Or was it a thing in the past? If all your goldies are healthy now, what is it you do different than I do? Let me know.

So in the future, if I am to buy another goldfish, I should put them in quarantine tank with all the same water parameters from the tank + Prazi to kill the parasites/ lice? How long should they be in the quarantine tank?

God, I just want healthy goldfish.

Going 2+ months with sick goldies is no fun... it's like going to hospital for two months visiting the sick one and you know they're not getting better. Would life be fun? No, especially if they're close to you.

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Lice sucking out all the belly content? Impossible! Fish lice are external, not internal parasites.

How does the belly feel?

Mushy?

What about its poop?

If the poop expelled is mostly undigested foods with mushy belly, I am afraid the fish may be unable to recover.sad.gif Renal failure is almost always involved when both signs are evident.

No, my worst issues did not involve goldfish although I did have some issues with my own goldies, still none as worse as the tropicals. I lost over a hundred of my characins, rams, and even cyprinids to mycobacteriosis. The loss is far greater than anything else in my experience (and history). Don't let these issues discourage you. I admit I felt that way but I had thought I could somehow prevent this if precautions are taken.

Prazi will not be enough to destroy parasites likes ergasilus, fish lice, etc. Stick to the same salt and prazi regimen but have dimilin or trichlorfon in stock just in case.

Edited by Lupin
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