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Wounded Oranda


Desiree

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I'm in a bit of shock right now so bear with me. Earlier this evening I was watching my fish, Gozer and Zool, eat. After a few moments the chase began again as my male oranda went back to his normal antics of head butting my female oranda. His breeding stars are so visible and lately he's been getting more and more aggressive with the female. I stepped away only to return to see him slamming her against the rocks and begin to eat her wen. He did this several times before I could react, I was in so much shock.

For a month in late November I treated my tank with salt, melafix, pimafix, and medigold for finrot, thinking my female orandas fins were just not healing. My cycle crashed and I stopped treating the situation to focus on the water quality. I was going to get a tank divider but money got tight causing me to delay. Needless to say I didn't get one. Lupin called it, the male oranda was the culprit all along and I am horribly foolish.

For now the female oranda is in an 18 gallon storage bin with clean water and an airstone. I've treated her wounds with biobandage, but aside from that I'm at a loss.

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 10

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.4

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Sorry

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Master Test Kit

[*]Water temperature? 72 F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 30 Gallons, 1 1/2 years

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Penguin Biowheel 350

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Weekly 80-90%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 Orandas 4 1/2 inches not including their tails

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, Buff it Up

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? I alternate between Pro-Gold, Salad Supreme, and Hikari Lionhead once or twice daily. They are occasionally fed broccoli, spinach, and oranges as well.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No

[*]Any medications added to the tank? No

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Horribly torn wen, with massive chunks missing. Looks like when you take a bite off of corn on the cobb. So sad! Ripped dorsal and other fins with blood in them.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Eating and swimming as usual, thankfully.

I'll post pictures in a moment. Anyway, help!

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Thanks, dear! Here's the pictures, poor lil' girl!

Here she is with the culprit.

oranda2.jpg

oranda1.jpg

This is a few minutes after treating her with Biobandage. Her wen is still blue, it hasn't come off.

oranda4.jpg

oranda5.jpg

Here's the bin she'll be in for tonight.

oranda3.jpg

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Ohmigosh! I am so sorry about the damage your male oranda has caused!cry3.gif If it were me, hun, I'd just get the salt up and do daily water changes! That's pretty much what we can do and pray the female oranda will recover fast. Miraculously, some goldies do recover quickly and very well too. I am glad you isolated her. Please do keep a watch for fungal and bacterial infections. Keep lights off, operate the HOB or sponge filter and keep tank barebottom. You may add some fake plants or live ones (as long as they're disinfected with potassium permanganate). That's pretty much what I would do in this scenario.

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I think the salt is not compatible with Biobandage. Since the poor fish is treated with Biobandage, I think we'll just keep salt out and focus on clean water instead. Can you do daily water changes?

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Those pics are so sad! Naughty dude! I hope she gets better-Lupin is your man, he will help you! Good luck!

I didn't know orandas could be so naughty! They look so cute and puppy doggie!

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I don't think that hurts. When Stephie mentioned it pulled off the BB, I had thought it might occur similarly here as I haven't tested BB and salt together in one go. Lucky you already did both at the same time, Susan. If it seems to be compatible on that saline level, then I'd go for it. I recommended salt earlier as it is one way to keep bacteria from attaching to the wounds.

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Yes,the BB remained on the ulcer for days. But she did tell me not to go to .02%. Of course,I cannot explain the how or why of it,but it was just recently,so thought I'd throw it out there :heart

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I am glad you did, hun.00001649.gif It seems likely the BB would fall off beyond 0.1%, possibly why Imo did not recommend going any higher.post-4056-1113060392.gif

Soooooo...Desiree, any other planned treatment schedule you may have?heartpump.gif

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Thanks for all the replies and suggestions! Currently, there is no filter on the tub. I do not have an extra one to put on there. But, I can get one tomorrow. Since I don't have a hospital tank, this may be a good time to get one. I feel bad seeing her all banged up and in a storage bin while he gets the big tank to himself. I'm also worried that if she recovers and I return her to the main tank it's going to happen again. :(

As for treatment, I will bring the salt level to 0.1% immediately. I was thinking of feeding Medigold just in case, but I tend to shotgun medicate. Speaking of, I've got pretty much every medication on hand, so if there is any additional treatments I should do, please let me know and I will treat asap!

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Hun, just stick to salt and BB for now. It's not going to do her any favor adding any more meds. We need to be patient and let the healing process go on without interference from other meds.heartpump.gif

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I agree! Okay, I'll stick to salt and daily water changes for now. Also, I'll pick up a filter for the tub (if not a hospital tank) tomorrow as well. Thanks for all your help! :)

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Shelly, please don't let one incident discourage you from trying out orandas. Of course, orandas are cute puppies. I along with a few members like MrsMohr keep mostly orandas for that reason and we've never witnessed such cannibalistic behavior amongst our own orandas. Each fish has a unique personality. It just so happens Desiree's male oranda is a little aggressive than the usual. One incident like that won't be the same for most others. Spawning period is not usually passive. You'd still need to keep a close watch when they spawn. I had a few goldies spawn without resulting in too much injuries at all except for minor fin tatters.

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Awww jeesh, the poor little thing :(

My George used to be an aggressive spawner too, he took a few eyes out. Like your fish, his breeding stars were very visible, I guess he was just a ball of testosterone. The good news is he did get over it - but I am very weary of adding females to the tank with him.

You've gotten good advice about treating your fish. I'm willing to bet that it will heal well and fast, just make sure you keep that water clean. When you get the extra filter, take some media from your existing tank to help kick start the cycle. And I agree, salt is your best way to go. Definitly don't feed medigold, there's no need.

As for long term plans I'm not sure what to tell you. A bigger tank may help, or a second female to take the pressure off. But I'd get a tank divider to be safe, at least to begin with.

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You have been given great advice here!

This has happened to me. I think it is more shock than anything!

You can always get a rubbermaid tub to use as QT. Very inexpenisive. Salt and no meds. It will take a while to grow back (if it does at all). I ended up seperating boys and girls because of just said behavior!

Why eat the wen? I don't think they mean too. They just get so worked up with smell of eggs.....bumping and nibbling...accidentally suck a piece of wen off and kinda thinks it is a good source of food. I was very upset as you must be.

Hang in there. It will be ok. Clean water, salt, and some alone time if possible! :heart

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Poor poor baby. That would have just scared the crap out of me. With all of this great advice i am sure it will heal up beautifully. Sure makes me want to try for all girly fishes from now on.

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So sorry this happened to your poor girl. She should heal well with the bb and clean water. I had a bad accident with Ziggy that involved a too strong powerhead that sucked a piece of his wen off and I was seriously traumatized(he didn't seem to notice). He's salt sensitive and even without the salt it healed and grew back beautifully. It's a little lopsided if you're really looking, but it's lumpy and lopsided all over so you'd never notice. Good luck!

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Thank you all for the kind words, support and advice! I'm in awe right now, this is what this forum is about! :)

Good news! After spending the night in a big old storage bin, my dear Oranda is now in her very own tank. I kept it simple, but added some river rocks from the main tank in hopes some beneficial bacteria hitch a ride. I know, not very likely... Anyway, she's got clean water, salt, peace and quiet. I must say, from the moment I put her in the tank and she's been buzzing around and seems to not have a care in the world. She's even eating well! Her fins are ripped and bloody and her wen looks almost fuzzy where it was torn, but by her behavior you'd think she was 110%!

On a side note, the strange thing about this incident is these two Orandas were always at each others side. They were brought home together and always circled the tank only within a few inches of each other despite the amount of space in the tank-- well before the breeding behavior began. I've never had two fish that actually seemed to "like" each other until now. But the aggression which occurred did not look like mere curiosity. He ripped her wen to shreds like when a goldfish eats an orange. Ever since I removed the female, the male has been bottom sitting, his breeding stars are no longer visible, and he looks so lonely. But right now my priority is making sure she heals and is safe. Thankfully, so far so good-- with all of your help!

As a few others have noted, this is definitely not your average behavior for Orandas and I can only hope that me sharing my own horror discovering and treating this incident would not keep someone from having Orandas. Seriously, that hurts my heart. And I digress.

Here she is in her new (possibly more than temporary) home:

oranda3-1.jpg

oranda2-1.jpg

oranda1-1.jpg

oranda.jpg

Edited by Desiree
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Thank goodness she really does look much better :)I'm so sorry I was so upset when I saw this,but do feel much better now thanks to you all :)

it so happens I saw a blueish black oranda the other day That I have not been able to get out of my head...hubby had to literally pull me out of the store by my hand (LOL) anyway i dont have the room right now, but when we move this spring/summer and i'm able to set up my 55 I'm thinking... my 20 gallon 1 oranda :) would that be ok size wise or do they prefer company??

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OMGoodness,he really went after her,didn't he.I can't say it surprises me though,raw,male sexual energy is the very definition of aggressiveness :ignore There is only 1 thing that matters to them,and 1 thing only :doh11: I even went through it w/ my female dog being in heat,recently-they get krazy,and just lose their minds :krazy: - PURE instinct :krazy: I'm so happy that she's doing so well :heart Sometimes it can take we,females,a while to recover that male aggression :teehee

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